Talk:Religions by country

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Former featured article candidate This article is a former featured list candidate. Please view its sub-page to see why the nomination failed. Once the objections have been addressed you may resubmit the article for featured list status.

This page should include an entry for Germany. Denial 17:28, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry!I've forgotten Germany!I will add Germany now!Thanks for your reply!Angelo De La Paz 01:54, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Articles and posts on Wikipedia or other open wikis should never be used as third-party sources.

The heading above was quoted from Wikipedia's verifiability policy. This article violates that policy. -- Boracay Bill 01:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me!Could could tell me more and detailed what is the violations of this article?Thank you!Angelo De La Paz 01:54, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

The Afghanistan, Bhutan, Brunei, Cambodia, China (Including Tibet), Czech Republic, India, North Korea, South Korea, Luxembourg, Nauru, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Singapore, Slovakia, United States, and Vietnam entries all said "Wikipedia, ..." in the References & Sources column. It looks like the only Wikipedia source actually cited was for Afghanistan. When I made this talk page remark initially, I didn't have the the time to look at details. Now that I've done that, I have removed those Wikipedia citations. I still have not tried to verify that the cited sources do in fact support the associated assertions, and may not have time to do that. -- Boracay Bill 10:11, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I see!Thank you so much!Good luck!Angelo De La Paz 21:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Featured list

I want to nominate this article as a Featured list on the basis of the WP:WIAFL. What's your idea?Angelo De La Paz 00:51, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Identification of supporting sources

Focusing on just identification of supporting sources, I see the following in the article (excerpt):

Religions by country as 2007
Country or Territory Christian Muslim Buddhist Hindu Others Atheist Notes References & Sources
Flag of Afghanistan Afghanistan 0.1% 99% 0.3% 0.2% 0.4%* n/a *: Including Parsees, Baha'is,Sikhs, etc... [1][2][3]
Flag of Albania Albania 30% 70% n/a n/a n/a n/a [4][5][6]

I have a difficult time relating the "References & Sources" items to the assertions which these items are supposed to be supporting. How about a more conventional alternative, something like the following (note—I have edited the assertions in the table, attempting to conform them to info from the cited supporting sources):

Religions by country as 2007
Country or Territory Christian Muslim Buddhist Hindu Others Atheist Notes
Flag of Afghanistan Afghanistan 0.02%[1] 97.89%[1]
99%[2][3]		 0.3%[citation needed] 0.35%[1] 1.72%[1]*
1%[2][3]		 0.01%[1] *: Including Parsees, Baha'is, Sikhs, Traditional ethnic, etc.[1]
Flag of Albania Albania 30%[4][5] 70%[4][5] n/a n/a n/a n/a

[edit] References

  1. ^ a b c d e f Country Profile: Afghanistan (Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan), Religious Intelligence Ltd., <http://www.religiousintelligence.co.uk/country/?CountryID=1>. Retrieved on 2007-11-15 
  2. ^ a b Background Note: Afghanistan, Bureau of South and Central Asian Affairs, U.S. Department of State, 2007, <http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5380.htm>. Retrieved on 2007-11-14 
  3. ^ a b Afghanistan, People, CIA World Factbook, November 1, 2007, <https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/af.html#People>. Retrieved on 2007-11-14 
  4. ^ a b Background Note: Albania, U.S. Department of State, Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs, 2007, <http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3235.htm>. Retrieved on 2007-11-14 
  5. ^ a b Albania, People, CIA World Factbook, November 1, 2007, <https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/al.html#People>. Retrieved on 2007-11-15 

-- Boracay Bill 05:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


Hi Boracay Bill!I think your suggestions are not too bad but it will make this article has more problems and make the readers feeling uncomfortable , very difficult to read the sources or edit it, etc...It contains over 200 countries/territories and if you make the table as your 2nd choice so it will be more confused and heavier at least 5 times!I think this article is OK now!Look at what was happened with article of Christianity by country of User:Vexorg

Angelo De La Paz 05:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Accuracy

Some of the Buddhism figures here seem to be drawn from wildly inflated estimates on Buddhist propaganad websites. Peter jackson (talk) 12:01, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merger proposal

Both Christianity by country and Religions by country are hopeless messes of original research, synthesis and abuse of statistics.

For example, Christianity by country tells us that Anguilla is 90.5% Christian. The source does not say this. It says: Anglican 29%, Methodist 23.9% other Protestant 30.2% Roman Catholic 5.7% other Christian 1.7% other 5.2% none or unspecified 4.3%

To get the 90.5%, we have to decide which of those categories are "Christian" and which aren't, then (ignoring statistical problems with doing so) add them up.

So, Anglicans, Methodists, other Protestants, Roman Catholics, and other Christians are Christians. Unspecified and other (9.5% of the population) are not. Messy at least.

The same source was used for Belize. The source says: Roman Catholic 49.6% Protestant 27% (Pentecostal 7.4%, Anglican 5.3%, Seventh-Day Adventist 5.2%, Mennonite 4.1%, Methodist 3.5%, Jehovah's Witnesses 1.5%) other 14% none 9.4%

Before my edit, Roman Catholic + Protestant = 76.6 Christian. Are any of the "other" 14% Christian? Who knows? But at least we established that Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians. Except in other countries, where we decided they weren't.

Ditto Mormons. Sometimes they're Christians, sometimes they aren't.

In the zeal to come up with a single number for every country, the various editors threw caution (and Statistics 101) to the wind and took matters into their own hands. It produced a nice, tidy table full of garbage.

And don't get me started about the years for sources and multiplying a bad 2002 figure of 76% Christian and a 2007 population estimate of 301,139,947 to arrive at exactly 228,866,359 Christians in the U.S.

Basically, it looks like one big table won't work. The figures are neither compatable nor complete. I think the best we can do is a heading for each country with a selection of stats from reliable sources and a link the to "Religion in Country X" article.

Mdsummermsw (talk) 17:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I do not see the need for a merge. Having a table with the major affiliations is very useful. It sounds like the figures must be sourced in a more robust manner rather than doing a merge. -- Alan Liefting- (talk) - 10:55, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
A single table WOULD be useful. However, we do not have reliable data for 245 of 295 countries listed in Christianity by country. The remaining countries use data from a variety of sources and present the data as if it is comparable. When two sources use widely divergent definitions of "Christian", their results cannot be meaningfully compared. Are "Christians":
- Those who self-identify as such when asked.
- Those who identify as belonging to a religion that the poll deems to be Christian.
- Those who are listed as members of a church that the poll deems to be Christian.
- The percentage of the population not specifically identified as belonging to a non-Christian religion, adjusted downward by the percentage of the population who say they "believe in God" (yes, really).
- Some other definition.
Actually, it seems most in Religions by country are using seat-of-the-pants original research.
Angola. The source says: "Catholic Church estimates 55% Catholic, but this figure can not be verified....Ministry of Culture says Protestant traditions...estimated 10%.... African Christian 25% are believed to be followers. 5% are believed to be Brazilian Evangelical". Add the unverifiable estimate of the Catholic Church, data from the Ministry of Culture and the percentages "believed to be" African Christian or Brazilian Evangelical, we get 95%. Not a figure I'd be willing to defend, given its origins.
One of the sources for Aruba is a report on Armenia.
The British Virgin Islands has two sources, one with figures that add up to 96% Christian (WP:SYN which was used) and one which states outright that 86% are Christian (which was not used).
The source used for Columbia essentially says there are various conflicting claims. One of the sources it mentions is selected for the Christian figure. To fit the data with the table, that source's "Agnostics" became "Atheists".
United Kingdom 35% to 71.6% Christian? Two U.S. Government sources cited give 71.6% and 72% (the second is probably just rounding the first). The 35%? This source, which does not give a percentage of Christians at all, but says 38% in the UK said "I believe there is a God". Take that 38%, subtract 3% (for the Muslims, I guess), squint really hard and Bingo!: 35% Christian (works for France and a number of others as well).
Is that "useful"? For what? - Mdsummermsw (talk) 15:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

This merger proposal is a bad idea. It will not make the links or the stat's any less messy. If anything merge Christianity by country with Roman Catholicism by country and Protestantism by country. That at least could work format-wise.--Carlaude (talk) 16:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)