Talk:Regions of the Shire

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I am tempted to merge this article with Buckland (Middle-earth) and Westmarch in Areas of the Shire or similar. Any opposition to it? [[User:Anárion|Image:Anarion.png]] 10:47, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'd go with "Regions of the Shire" rather than "Areas". But yes, please do. Make sure you track whatever you merge into it. (It helps if you link them in the edit summary so they'll be linked in the history, to preserve individual edit histories.) As a general rule of thumb, anything that results in there being less tiny Middle-earth articles is good. --[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 12:44, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I like Regions. I'll leave this up at least another day, then if there are no oppositions I'll merge. [[User:Anárion|Image:Anarion.png]] 12:53, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Merger complete. This now obviously needs editing, a task I will start on later, time permitting. I have fixed the various redirects. [[User:Anárion|Image:Anarion.png]] 12:01, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I did some formatting. We really need to get a handle (i.e. do some more cleanup) on this bolding and italicizing business. (I figure that for this article, it is reasonable to bold names of regions and major towns, but not names of individuals and families, as the latter in no way refer back to the title of the article.) I left in some italics. By the way, I'm editing single quotes into double quotes, not because I don't think single quotes are acceptable, but because the Wikipedia search doesn't know how to handle them (see the Manual of Style). --[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 13:52, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] buckland

Buckland is not part of the shire and I have proof.The only official in shiree is the mayor of Michael Delving and buckland has the mester of buklynd.

In that case, we would like to see that proof. If you could provide a source, that would be even better. --Algebra 21:49, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

I have a strange feeling he may be right. I read the books years ago and seem to remember Buckland was an independant "country". - when the hobbits returned to the shire, pippin became thain of the shire & merry became master of buckland - but pippin was not thain of buckland also -- Astrokey44|talk 15:40, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Upon checking I found this (see start of Chapter V A conspiracy unmasked in FOTR): "[Buckland] was virtually a small independant country.. a sort of colony of the Shire." -- Astrokey44|talk 15:44, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Buckland was not part of the original land grant of 1601 to the hobbits, and thus was originally not part of the Shire. By Bilbo's time the distinction had all but disappeared and then Aragorn made that official... classifying Buckland as 'the Eastmarch'. --CBD _☎ ^✉ 16:49, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I just think that Tolkien had meant for Buckland to be a separate country - even in the fourth age: Merry became the leader of Buckland, and Pippin the leader of the Shire -- Astrokey44|talk 03:07, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Without even looking for further citations, the key phrase to me is "...a sort of colony of the Shire" (emphasis mine). Certainly you could find thinking of the sort of "Buckland vs the rest of the Shire", perhaps even "Buckland vs the Shire" in extreme cases, but when compared to, for instance, "the Shire vs Bree", Bucklanders are emphatically Shirefolk. (Having their own local chief, the Master of Buckland, doesn't mean they don't follow the same general pattern of governance as the rest of the Shire: not just the leaders, regarding which I might note we're never told the Master is equal to the Thain or Mayor, but also in Shirriffs, the postal service, and the like.) -- Perey 15:15, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Buckland is not a part of the Shire, as many above have noted, it is pretty much a suburb of the Shire, I believe. There are actually two officials in the Shire, the Thain of Tookland, and the Mayor of Mickel Delving. Though the Mayor mostly just deals with paperwork and presides at parties and weddings. The Master, Thain and Mayor do govern the Shire and Buckland together though, I believe. Signed - An Anonymous Hobbit

[edit] Oxfordshire

Should there be mention of the fact that J.R.R. Tolkien based the layout of the Shire and Buckland on Oxfordshire and Bucks in England? I possess an old map of the road that goes through Oxford, and it's nearly identical to the Hobbit-Shire's road in The Fellowship of the Ring. There are even small cherub-like figures on the map, that look rather like hobbits!--as an interesting note. But in all seriousness, Tolkien did base Middle Earth, going as far back as his first maps, on his idea of a very ancient Europe where the North Sea was a 'Lost Realm' of valley, etc., and where various modern locations had their roots. He chose Oxfordshire to be the location of Hobbiton because, naturally, that's where he lived--a professor of philology/English at Merton College. Matthew A.J.י.B. 20:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shire Map deleted

Does anyone know the reason why the map of the Shire (Image:Map of the Shire from lord of the rings.PNG) was deleted? As I remember, it was a "home made" image, probably by a Wikipedian, and was not a simply a scanned copy taken directly from The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (f.p. 1954). It wasn't anywhere near as visually appealing as the official version and not of commercial quality, but it was still helpful to have in the articles where it was displayed. Was there some sort of copyright complaint received in connection with that image? Bezapt 04:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

recently such images have been seen to be as Derivative works. The middle earth maps were nominated for deletion here and some maps were deleted, but then the decision went from delete to keep, and was closed early due to a procedural breech. --Astrokey44 07:59, 29 November 2006 (UTC)