Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Science/2006 July 4

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[edit] International Time Bureau / Bureau International de l'Heure

I am a little confused by some of the references to the "International Time Bureau"/"Bureau International de l'Heure" in the following articles:

So my question is, Does the International Time Bureau exist today, as a subdivision of the IERS perhaps? If so, that should be mentioned in the IERS article; if not, it should be made clear at BIH that the organization no longer exists. Also the Paris Observatory article should be clarified on that point. I should also note that a handful of other articles have redlinks either to "Bureau International de l'Heure"[1] or "International Time Bureau"[2]. --Mathew5000 04:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Interesting question.
  • The BIPM website mentions: The realization and dissemination of the international time scales is the responsibility of the Time Section of the BIPM. International Atomic Time (TAI) is the uniform time scale; ... Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) is an atomic time scale derived from TAI But that doesn't solve the complete problem yet, at least we know who keeps the time now.
  • [3] looks interesting and is probably very creditable. It mentions that the BIH began it's work in 1912 and was dissolved in 1987. In that year it's work was taken over by two organisations: the BIPM and the new IERS.
  • As far as I can tell from the BIPM website, the relation between the IAU and the BIPM seems to be that some of the previous definitions of the second as established by the IAU were "copied" by the BIPM.
  • I still have no idea how the BIH relates to the IAU. The BIH was the executive body for the IAU's International Commission of Time.
I've created an article on the BIH which (hopefully correctly) addresses all of the above. -- Koffieyahoo 02:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks very much, Koffieyahoo; nicely done. The paper by Guinot mentions the Federation of Astronomical and Geophysical Services. That organization seems to have changed its name to the Federation of Astronomical and Geophysical Data Analysis Services [4] but it retained the same acronym. In my view, Wikipedia absolutely needs an article on a scientific organization called FAGS. --Mathew5000 02:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tugs approach and estimated force (kN) for the contact.

When approaching tug landing area or berths, what is the normal safe speed = force(kN)? Some of the answers might contained in BS 6349 under fender design. Can anybody point out if 0.2 m/s is acceptable? If so can somebody pls re-direct me to relevant documentation as proof.(Azwahid)

[edit] Clams

Are Clams A)Biodegradable B)Edible C)Tasty D)Sentient E)All of the above. I would appreciate an answer!

See Clam. –Mysid(t) 06:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Considering clam shells survive for millions of years, I don't think so. --mboverload@ 07:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Clams are certainly edible (not the shell though) and can be very tasty! The organism inside is completely biodegradeable, but the shell can last astronomically long times without being disintegrated. •USER•ADAM THE ATOM•TALK• 08:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
And yes, they are sentient creatures. –Mysid(t) 08:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
This gets my vote for the Reference Desk question of the day. For anyone not getting it, see also #claims.-gadfium 09:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Confused about Java.

Hello, I installed the J2SDK 1.4 which is the Software Development Kit of JAVA version 1.4. I am new to java, and have some ebooks about it. So I thought why not cut-paste some simple code from these books and try them out. So after installation, I get a "JAVA WEB START" icon on my desktop. After opening it, nowhere could I find "regions" where I could write code or compile them or build them. It doesn't have anything !! So then I installed Netbeans 5.0. After its installation, I copied the code to the window in Netbeans, which opened up after I selected "file" and "new project". But there also, it says "build failed". I cant understand why is this happening. The program I was copying was nothing but the most simple one about "hello world !". But still it didn't work. Some help from you guys out there. Thank You. - Nikhilthemacho

Check out the Java Tutorial. The "Getting Started" section has step-by-step instructions. The Java Forums is also a good place to ask for help with Java. Weregerbil 11:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
If you look up to July 1 on this reference desk (sorry, don't know how to put a link for it), I explained a similar thing to someone else. You won't need netbeans until after you get the basics of java down. I guess J2SDK is Sun's compiler/runtime bundle, but I don't use it, and i don't know how. The good news is, now you already have the java virtual machine installed, which you need. Next, I would recommend that you go download [Eclipse], which is a great, free compiler for java. Download that, and you should be ready to go. When it starts, up, you can allow it to use a default workspace (which is where all the Java program files you create will be stored), skip the "new user" dialogue (or read it if you like), and go to file=>new project, then file=>new class, and you should be ready to start coding "hello world to your heart's desire. Have fun --Bmk 13:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Locking WinXP screen

Is there a way to lock the screen in Windows XP such that someone who tries to unlock it does NOT know who is currently logged in? (By default they can see a message that says "Only User or an administrator can unlock this computer.") •USER•ADAM THE ATOM•TALK• 08:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I use WIndows Key + L to lock. Then it comes up the welcome screen and lists the users accounts. I have two. So, the one that I am already listed in comes up the amount of programs I am running and if I have an unread mail message. It doesn't say who is actually logged in. Iolakana|T 12:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
You could log off with the welcome screen disabled. Google is your friend.--Frenchman113 on wheels! 13:46, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sex

If a boy and girl have sex and boy pulls out penis before ejaculation will girl be pregnant?--203.124.2.16 08:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Possibly. It's unreliable, and not a recommended birth control method. See coitus interruptus. –Mysid(t) 08:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Pre-ejaculate can contain semen too, so you could impregnate the girl before actually having an orgasm. - Mgm|(talk) 21:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps you mean sperm? That is the important thing here. -- Rangek 21:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Sometimes. --Proficient 11:14, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Mom? Is that you? - Nunh-huh 04:30, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

It's much, much safer than ejaculating inside, but you still have a very small chance of getting her pregnant. Advice: Use a condom and you get to stay inside =D --mboverload@ 07:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

BackDoor Loving means never having to pull out!

[edit] Equation versus date of Big Bang

If I have an equation that can be used to measure the age of a physical item beyond the moment of the Big Bang is the equation in error or the date of the Big Bang? ...IMHO (Talk) 10:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

It could be either; it would require further investigation. That's how science works. -- SCZenz 10:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
What I am asking is if it is reasonable to use an eqation capable of measuring age older than the Big Bang and if so then doesn't that in itself put the time since the Big Bang in doubt? ...IMHO (Talk) 10:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
As SCZenz says, it could be either. However, I would put my bet heavily on the side of there being some missing factor in your equation that if accounted for would bring things back into line -- the error bars on the time since the Big Bang are now fairly narrow (13.7 +/- 0.2 bn years according to the WMAP guys). In the past they were rather large -- there was a time at which astronomers and cosmologists faced exactly the situation you describe -- the then-preferred age of the universe (based on the then-preferred value of the Hubble constant) was lower than the observed age of the oldest globular clusters. However, that value of the Hubble constant was considerably off, and there is no longer a contradiction.
Given that the current figure for the age of the universe is based on a large set of cosmological observations, finding something indisputably older -- particularly if it was by a significant multiple -- would probably cause severe problems for the models used to interpret those observations.
So, enlighten us: are you talking hypothetically, or do you have an example? --Bth 11:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
If P reaches zero then the value of t would be infinite (or at least greater than the time since the Big Bang) which would suggest a lower limit of P = 1.25 * 10^{-9}\ where P = \frac {D}{\exp {\left({t * \lambda }\right)}-1} such that the value of t in the equation t = \frac{1}{\lambda} {\times} {\ln \left(1+\frac{D}{P}\right)} does not exceed the amount of time since the Big Bang or approximately 16(?) billion years. ...IMHO (Talk) 12:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Gosh, I don'tk now what P is for, of course. But if you're confident in that equation and in the age of the universe, then that does give you a lower limit on P. No problem. -- SCZenz 12:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
P is the number of grains of sand in the top bulb and D the number in the bottom bulb. The range of t is from the Big Bang to the current date whatever it is such that the top bulb (P) is full at the Big Bang and empty on the current date while the bottom bulb (D) is empty at the Big Bang and full on the current date whatever it is. P therefore must be zero on the current date rather than any fraction greater than zero. Devise an equation. ...IMHO (Talk) 18:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Anyone can throw together an equation that can do that, just with just about all of them they'd be wrong, so basically you have to look at the equation. If its carbon dating or something, its wrong, because no carbon in the solar system is older than the star that preceeded the sun. Philc TECI 12:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Can you suggest an equation that would allow P to equal zero without the caveat of requiring forgiviness of an "infinite ratio" or divide by zero error? ...IMHO (Talk) 12:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Half-life or decay calculations are just a model for a physical phenomenon; they aren't the phenomenon itself. As with the application of any mathematical model, the user must be mindful of its limits. It's impossible to build safety or sanity checks into every equation that are proof against every possible misuse or misinterpretation. (Note that redesigning these equations for a Wikipedia article would be a violation of the policy barring original research anyway.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 12:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
In that case there should be a Wikipedia policy requiring each article to post the size of the grain of salt that should accompany the article. ...IMHO (Talk) 13:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Already done. See the link to Wikipedia:General disclaimer which appears on every page. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
In this case clarifications, points of dispute and questions of validity should not be excluded from an article especially by referencing the WP:NOR policy and yet failing to cite the WP:NPOV policy by anyone especially by administrators. Such clarifications, points of dispute and questions of validity should in fact be encouraged as a matter of article validation and enhancement. Otherwise this grain of salt should be displayed constantly in non-scrolling red all caps on every page. ...IMHO (Talk) 03:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Also allow me to observe that deleting articles instead of editing them is a sign of ignorance or of something far worse. ...IMHO (Talk) 08:17, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative To Drive Belts?

I just burned my 457th drive belt on our vacuum cleaner (the dog lead got caught around the rotary brush and I couldn't switch it off in time). I'm fed up of changing drive belts all the time. It's a stupid way to transmit motion. Isn't there a more robbust way of transmitting such motion while cutting the motor in the event that the load gets too large? Also the article stall, is all about aeroplanes and doesn't tell me what mechanism is used to stall a car engine when appropriate. --Username132 (talk), UK or Netherlands 10:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I've used several vacuum cleaners in my life and never noticed a drive belt. You also talk of a 'rotatry brush'. Do you have some special kind of vacuum cleaner? DirkvdM 11:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I guess it depends on what kind you've got. Mine is an upright, so it has a sort of brush-cylinder type thing, which rotates around very quickly, beating the carpet so dust and stuff gets sucked up. The drive belt is the connection between the motor and the rotary brush - it's just a big thick piece of rubber. If the rotary brush gets jammed (e.g. by getting tangled up in a dog lead), then the electric motor keeps turning against a piece of rubber which isn't moving and the friction causes a plume of black smoke to eminate from the innards, indicating the demise of another drive belt. --Username132 (talk), UK or Netherlands 11:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Having gears cogs and a clutch might be a better method of transmission; if the brush gets stuck, the clutch just slips harmlessly. It will burn out after a while, but can generally take more punishment that a drive belt. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 14:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
smurrayinchester, would that be a clutch with manual transmission? I know vacuum cleaners as fairly simple things, but this is turning into quite an elaborate machine. DirkvdM 14:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
After edit conflict:
Ah, so it's the rotatry brush that gets driven by the belt. Couldn't you use the machine without the rotary brush? More to the point of your question, the only alternative I know to a belt drive (in turntables) is direct drive. If that gets stuck the enigne dies and there is no repairing it. So I suppose the manufacturer knew about the problem (which of course they didn't tell you about). DirkvdM 14:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Indeed, I could still use the machine via the hose but it's not as effective and it's a lot more effort because I've got to hold the hoover upright (it'll fall over otherwise) in one hand and operate the hose with the other. A right kafuffle... --Username132 (talk), UK or Netherlands 14:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)


Just a simple friction disc, like that found in a lawnmower if the blade gets stuck. When I say gears, I don't mean adjustable gears like a car, just a simple cog transmission. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 14:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
A good design would cut the power and illuminate a warning light when it detected that the rotary brush had stopped rotating. --Username132 (talk), UK or Netherlands 14:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Couldn't you just you direct drive, or cogs or something, but just use a resistor to limit the power to the motor, so its not strong enough to do any damage? Philc TECI 14:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Then you run the risk of burning out the motor, with three possible results; you get it fixed for the cost of a new vacuum cleaner, you get a replacement with the extended warranty that cost the same as a new vacuum cleaner, or you get a new vacuum cleaner for the cost of a new vacuum cleaner. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 15:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, I think this might be going somewhere. Maybe you should get a new vacu.. neh, that'll never work. Philc TECI 18:20, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I would have thought a new dog (or even better, a cat) might be a better solution.-gadfium 20:52, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] dog health

Do dogs have temporary "baby teeth" that naturally fall out? If not, what are the health implications of a chipped tooth in a 6 month old golden retriever?

Yes-- dogs have a set of 28 deciduous (baby, primary) teeth which eventually exfoliate (fall out) and make way for the 42 "permanent" teeth. The process of primary tooth loss occurs between the ages of 14 and 30 weeks.--Mark Bornfeld DDS 12:28, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
And if you really care about its health, make sure the lead doesn't get stuck in the rotating brush, sucking the dog into the vacuum cleaner. :) DirkvdM 14:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
To answer the second part of your question, since a tooth in a six month old dog would be a permanent tooth, a fracture could be a concern. If there is exposure of the pulp, that could lead to infection, and it is painful. An examination by your veterinarian and possibly an X-ray is necessary to determine if there is pulp exposure. If there is and the fracture is recent (within two weeks in a puppy, usually), then a pulpectomy and possibly a capping can be performed. This is usually done only if the tooth is considered to be "important", i.e. one of the canine teeth or carnassial teeth (upper fourth premolar or lower first molar). If the fracture is older or it is a smaller tooth, it is usually just extracted. If there is no pulp exposure, than you really don't have to worry about it. --Joelmills 23:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Indeed. As a veterinarian. --Proficient 11:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] biotechnology

How many retrovirus gene are scooped out while construting the retroviral vector?

It depends on the vector and the method. alteripse 13:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Error analysis

I am measuring a shaft with a sensor that sits on the shaft as it is rotated. The sensor has four different ways of moving for the result to be valid each one is ±5°. What would the error be for the value that is effected equally by four different parameters. (If it helps the value being measured is approxiamately 34mm).

sorry but I'm a bit confused. A picture might help . -Hank
Hmm. I think you're asking about the Propagation of uncertainty, which is where you try to determine the overall error of a measurement based on errors in each of the individual measurements that you used to get to it. The overall error will depend on whether you are adding or multiplying each of the individual measurements. The propagation of uncertainty page provides the equations to work this out, but it's a bit tricky to understand (especially without simple examples!). If you want it explained in layman's terms you'll need to provide more info. BenC7 03:53, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Teradata

Give me details regarding teradata ? what it is and where it it used??

To save yourself time and energy, please search first. See teradata. Notinasnaid 12:24, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IIS - Internet Information Services

Been playing around with IIS on Windows XP Professional. I've successfully created an FTP server but I can only access it using my intranet IP (192.x.y.z is always an intranet IP right?). When I type in my internet IP address (the IP address found on www.whatismyip.com) nothing comes up. I've got my firewall disabled too. Anyone know what's up here?

Thanks, -Hank

If you have a intranet IP address (probably better described as a LAN IP address) then you probably have a hardware router. The IP assigned by your ISP, which you can find at www.whatismyip.com, is the address of the port on your router that is connected to your cable modem, telephone line, or the like. Your router does not have any FTP server built in, nor does it know which computer on your LAN to forward the incoming FTP request to, so the request fails. By reading the router documentation, you should be able to overcome this problem. However, many ISPs that serve home users prohibit operating this kind of server. Gerry Ashton 16:16, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
ah thanks. I did an "IP Passthrough" on my modem/router so the internet IP just goes straight on to my PC. Thanks. -Hank

[edit] DVD copy prevention

I understand that DVDs are encrypted with CSS, which prevents them from being played on systems that don't have a valid player key, but what is it that prevents me from copying the DVD with the copy prevention still on it? Even if the disc is encrypted, shouldn't it still be possible to make copies of the encrypted data?--Frenchman113 on wheels! 15:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

There are two hurdles. There is a "hidden area" on a disk. When a program asks a DVD drive to read the hidden area it asks the program to authenticate itself. The authentication key is secret so you can't get at the hidden data. Unless you license a key, or crack the algorithm, (see DeCSS), or have a drive that can circumvent the authentication (which may be illegal to sell in some countries).
The second problem is that regular blank disks also have the hidden area burned out so it can't be written. Blanks with writable hidden areas are used by DVD factories but aren't sold to consumers. See [5] and [6]. Weregerbil 18:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

As an unrelated question, I've noticed that using VLC to play DVDs results in choppy video. Is this a problem with libdvdcss, my 3GHz Pentium 4, or my 8x DVD drive?--Frenchman113 on wheels! 15:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible to network with 56k modems?

Is it possible to connect two computers through their 56k modems? --Username132 (talk), UK or Netherlands 15:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Most windows systems are pre-installed with a program called "Hyperterminal" which allows you to connect two computers by modem. Go to
Start->All Programs->Accessories->Communications->Hyperterminal
-Hank
(edit conflict -- here's some more info on wikipedia:) Yes; you can get terminal emulation programs (such as HyperTerminal), set computer A up to auto-answer any incoming call, then have computer B dial up the phone number that A is on. The terminal emulators use protocols like XMODEM and ZMODEM. All modems and operating systems used to come with basic terminal emulation software, but I don't know if they still do. --Allen 16:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Depends what you mean. No, if you mean directly connecting them by putting a phone cable directly between the two modems, then it's not trivial to get the computers to talk as there's no dialtone or proper line signal. It might be possible however. AT command ATX3 will ignore the dialtone. But if you mean dialing one up from the other, then yes. You can even have one computer host a PPP session so they can be connected with TCP/IP. —Pengo 23:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

it is trivial, I've done it, you're looking for null modem software. a null modem connection is a direct line between two computers' modems without going through a wall (no dialtone).

Um, no. A null modem cable is used to connect two computer together through their serial ports—no modems are used in this case—read the article. You might try a Google search on "dry" lines as they are called, which are unpowered copper lines. I believe it's still the case that the modems will not connect at 56k, but 33.6k instead. ISPs used to need special equipment to receive 56k connections—the modems themselves were not capable of it, but I haven't looked into it in a long while with the availability of DSL. —Bradley 15:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
There is an option to "Ignore dial tone before dialing" as well; however, we would need to know your exact intent to provide a better solution. Freebytes 16:02, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] power regulators

does the common ceiling fan consume more power when run at full speed than at slower speeds?

Apparently so. Here's a quote from Chris Calwell and Noah Horowitz, in "Home Energy Magazine Online" (Jan-Feb 2001), which seems to be an Argonne National Laboratory publication of some sort:
The motors in ceiling fans typically consume about 60 to 100 watts at high speed, 20 to 40 watts at medium speed, and 10 to 15 watts at low speed.
For some reason I can't actually load the original page right now, but here's a Google cache of it [7]. --Allen 17:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] conductivity

can anyone answer why is copper more conductive than aluminium from their structure point of view.also it's chemical characteristics?

In general, unreactive metals like silver and gold tend to be better conductors than those at the other end of the reactivity series. Aluminum is a very reactive metal (though in normal conditions it doesn't seem reactive because it forms a protective oxide coating), so its resistivity is higher than copper's. I can't give you a more specific explanation without getting into the theory of valence bands and conduction bands (which I'm not even sure how to apply to this case myself =P). —Keenan Pepper 19:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I also can't answer the question properly but here's some background info
  1. both copper and aluminium's atoms are laid out in a face centred cubic arrangement so there is little difference here other than spacing
  2. their electronic structures are however different. If you have a VRML plugin you can see some nice models of their fermi surfaces here [8] and here [9]
It is probably easier to think of the conductivity in terms of the Drude model anyway which has an equation about halfway down relating conductivity to density of electrons, time between collisions (i.e. phonon scattering) and effective mass. All of these are probably different in Cu and Al. Hope this helps. JMiall 20:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stereo speakers

I had stereo speakers, but one of them stopped working and now some sound is impossible to hear due to speaker panning. How can I solve that problem? I've tried setting balance in winamp to just one speaker but didn't work.

Yeah, changing the balance just changes the levels to the two stereo channels; it doesn't put any signal from one channel into the other. I don't use winamp, but if it has an option to play the sound in "mono", that should work (that way, both the stereo signals would be mixed into one, which would be put through both speakers equally). Or if you don't have a mono option in the software, you could use audio adapters, like the kind that Radio Shack sells. You would probably need at least a miniplug adapter with a stereo male end and a mono female end. You could probably plug right into that. If that didn't work, plugging another adapter, with a mono male end and a stereo female end, into the back of the first adapter, and then plugging the speakers into that, should work. This is all assuming you have typical computer speakers. --Allen 18:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What age bracket rarely leaves a fingerprint?

What age bracket rarely leaves a fingerprint? Why?

Fingerprints are developed while the person is still in the womb (3 months after conception I think). Therefore it would be reasonable to assume that all age brackets leave fingerprints (unless you count unborn babies and long dead and decayed people) --80.229.152.246 19:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
This sounds distinctly like a homework or pub quiz question. If the former, check your textbook and notes. If the latter, you cheat you! Maybe the age bracket that doesn't touch anything with their hands? :-) Skittle 20:26, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I've seen toe and earprints used to catch criminals so not touching with your hands will still leave prints. But yeah, most people leave fingerprints unless they purposely try to hide them. Perhaps you meant to ask about the age of criminals that don't leave fingerprints? In that case numbers are skewed. Only the ones that get caught through other means can ever be asked their age. - Mgm|(talk) 21:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Side note: age brackets don't leave fingerprints, they don't have fingers like people do. - Mgm|(talk) 21:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

The 85-90 year old age bracket rarely leaves fingerprints, because they are so dried out (like a prune) that there is no oil to be left behind. However, after 90 decay sets in and usually flakes of skin are left everywhere they touch, and also a smell of fermaldahyde. No, I'm kidding. No idea what the answer might be. Sorry. 82.131.189.247 08:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Recycling CDs

Can CDs be recycled for their plastic? (no-one wants to hear about your arts and crafts ideas) --Username132 (talk), UK or Netherlands 18:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Theoretically they could be, but it's not profitable. Plastic recycling in general is disappointing in practice, and only certain polymers (PET, PE, PVC) are worthwhile to recycle. Polycarbonate isn't one of them, as far as I know. —Keenan Pepper 19:25, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
...On the other hand, some websites claim to be able to do it, so maybe the situation isn't as bleak as I thought. —Keenan Pepper 19:30, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
They can also be recycled as beermats or coasters. AllanHainey 13:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
That's a different one of the three Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. —Keenan Pepper 19:30, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Not to mention that I don't want 50 ugly coasters... --Username132 (talk), UK or Netherlands 22:36, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Economics -- why are unions necessary?

I've approached economics mostly from a game-theoretic point of view, and I'm having trouble understanding some things that happen "in the real world". It seems like corporations fail without workers, and workers fail without corporations, so I would expect that jobs and workers would both form free markets, and be priced "fairly" or rationally or whatever. But then it seems like workers consistently get screwed over unless they form into trade unions and things. Why do corporations have "more power" in the relationship than workers do? Does the free market price jobs fairly? If so, why do we want a minimum wage or unions or anything? -- Creidieki 19:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

You're mixing economics and the real world - what did you expect? The free market, where parties have unequal bargaining power, does not price jobs fairly. Large entities, whether corporations or unions, distort free market relationships. A sufficiently large corporation has more bargaining power than an individual worker; a union, which is simply an artificial monopoly, sometimes has more bargaining power than a corporation. Hence labour relations are typically highly regulated and not left entirely to market forces. Peter Grey 19:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
And even without large corporations or unions, a lot of people would disagree over whether free-market wages would be "fair" in the human-rights sense of the word. Just glancing at it for the first time, it looks like we have a fairly decent (though completely unsourced) article on Labour economics. --Allen 19:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
If there are more people wanting jobs, that there are jobs, people are forced to accept a low wage, or they may lose there job to someone who has no wage (no job), who doesn't care how low it is, because its better than nothing. So basically the demand for jobs brings down the wage, because workers will still wok for it. Supply and demand really, the more people want it, the more you can screw them out of it. But if there is a union, then it becomes such an inconvenience to the company (it shuts down) to upset the union, that it tries not to. However if the workers become to tyrannical with their power, it may be easier for the company to sack the lot of them. Philc TECI 20:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I think the problem comes down to "friction". It sucks to change jobs for a worker much more than it usually hurts a company to loose a worker. This makes the barrier to "take this jobs and shove it" quite high, leading to depressed wages. Rangek 22:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
The labour market should indeed be a two way thing, but it isn't. There's those who seek work and those who want it. If the twain don't meet, it's the potential workers who get blamed. Why? Because you can pinpoint them. You can't pinpoint a company and say "why don't you employ this guy? Shame on you, we'll punish you." Or could you? And how would you determine the punishment then? The free market mechanism doesn't work here.
Actually, companies do get punished when they create jobs for which there are not enough workers. They'll go out of business. This ensures that there will always be more workers than vacancies, which, through the free market mechanism, makes sure the wages stay low. I suppose the reason for this is that the number of (potential) workers (the number of people) is given. The number of companies isn't. It should adapt to the number of workers, but it doesn't. DirkvdM 06:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

"Economics -- why are unions necessary" is the same question as "Politics -- why are electorates necessary". The answer, of course, is that if everyone knows everyone (for example, there are thirty to fifty people only) electorates and unions are not really necessary, and neither are union negotiations or the political run-around associated with elections etc. Certainly career politicians, just as union leaders, aren't really necessary. As you get beyond that problems start to arise. I think a good question for you to ask is "When union organizers are murdered, whose interests are served"?

The real reason unions are necessary is that without them, the table is not in fact balanced - each single worker needs the company way more than the company needs a single worker. The bargaining table consists of a giant corporation versus a single employee. If you have a large business employing hundreds or thousands of workers, and the workers are unorganized, then the business has no trouble exploiting each individual worker for unfair hours and low wages; the company can simply fire an individual employee if they resist, thus making an example for the rest of them. However, if the workers organize, and form a union, then the table is balanced; the corporation must deal fairly with the workers as a union, or face the consequences of the loss of the entire workforce.
The table might be balanced, or the union might exploit its bargaining power no different from any other monopoly, so it's a balance only in a very crude sense. But there don't seem to be any better ideas. Peter Grey 23:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Let me give you an example, which happened only a few years ago to a British company I worked for. It was taken over by an American company, who agreed as part of the takeover conditions not to fire any of the workers. However very shortly after the takeover they did in fact fire many workers, without cause. When the workers complained their reposnse was simply "we can afford lawyers and you can't, so tough". At this point enter the union who said "actually we can afford lawyers and we will fight you". Since the company didn't actually have a legacl case they backed down. Without a union there would simply have been no-one able to afford to call them. DJ Clayworth 16:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Difference between Anatomy and Physiology

I am about to begin a degree in University related to Biology and 2 of the subjects I am considering are Physiology and Anatomy and the articles on the university website regarding these subjects arent very detailed. The descriptions pretty much describe them as similar or the same so can anyone explain what the difference is between the 2? Thanks

See our articles on the relevant topics: Anatomy and Physiology. --George 23:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Anatomy is to Physiology as Form is to Function. - Nunh-huh 04:19, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
  1. The university degree program for Biology ought to have some kind of introductory class in the basics of the whole field.
  2. Visit the bookstore that sells text books for the classes, and browse. User:AlMac|(talk) 18:25, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Surrology"

Referenced on CSI:, what exactly is "surrology"? Google keeps thinking I mean urology, but this is not the case. I assume I am spelling it wrong. It has something to do with blood. Thanks, Iolakana|T 20:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Try serology.-gadfium 20:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leg alignment

How does leg alignment affect snow skiing?--67.134.173.222 21:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)Kimwal--67.134.173.222 21:38, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I would assume that if both of your legs are aligned correctly, you will produce more productive results when skiing, as opposed to being misshapen. --Proficient 11:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] meteorologists?

How quickly do you think a weatherman would lose his job if he tried to suggest that changes in daily weather cycles were permanent and man made? "In todays weather, it's raining, so you better get the ark because man made global rain is going to kill us all" He'd be laughed off the air, so why do left leaners and other alarmists have to campaign so hard for global warming? Wasn't the going theory in the 70s global COOLing? what happned to that? or killer bats? killer flus? vaccinations? cancer? AIDS? all the bull that the MSM wants you to get all worked up about?---Am-j4th 22:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Suitly emphazi your posts, please. 128.197.81.223 23:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Say what?--152.163.100.74 03:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Suitly emphazi. It's a wiki ref desk in joke. DirkvdM 06:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
MSM? DirkvdM 06:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Your question is a jumble. I'll ignore the last bits because I don't see the relevance (or do you mean 'left wing and all that bullshit'?). If a weatherman would say what you suggest he would deserve to get sacked. But even if he'd say that "today's weather is a result of climate change" he'd be talking bull because that is about the climate, which isn't the same as weather. Climate is about averages. Like saying "the Dutch are on average taller than Belgians, this guy is Dutch, so he must be taller than that guy who is Belgian" is nonsense. Also, you speak of global warming, which is just one possible outcome of climate change. Overall, it's the most likely outcome. But there is also the possibility that the North Atlantic Current will come to a standstill because of the melting polar cap, which would plunge Europe (and then the northern hemispere and then the world?) into an ice-age.
The thing is we don't know what we're messing with. We've hardly got any insight in how climate works. The only reason that we know that there will be some effect is because what we are doing (such as doubling the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere) is so immense that it would be odd if there were no effect. DirkvdM 06:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, man - it's a good thing that whole cancer thing didn't pan out. Or HIV - I'll bet sub-Saharan Africa sure is glad that turned out to be a leftist hoax. Haha! And remember that left-leaner who said we could use vaccination to stop the polio epidemic? Oh man, that was a whopper. Next they'll be saying deforestation kills trees. Seriously, though - turn off the TV, stop watching Bill O'Reilly, and read some of the wikipedia links I made above. And to the rest of you, sorry, i really shouldn't feed the trolls. --Bmk 13:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Only on Fox would a weatherman get fired for mentioning Global warming as a fact. Everywhere else it would cause a stir if they said the opposite. DJ Clayworth 16:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


In a similar vein, this Idaho weathermanquit his job to pursue researching his theory that the Yakuza used a contraband Russian weather-control device to cause hurricane Katrina. Although all the reports I can now find state he quit, I recall that at the time his dismissal was not so clear-cut and it seemed likely that the station management asked him to leave (and take his looney theories with him).

[edit] computers

two questions 1) while troubleshooting my pc to find out why windows live messenger wont use the sharded folder i found my hard was FAT32 but msn needs NTFS, it suggests converting the system and explaisn how, i was wondering what kind of risks are there, what advantges are there and are there any disadvantages? (i'm runnign windows XP) 2) other than consulting manuals is there anywhere on my computer that shows how much power my moniter/tower box is using or does any1 now any software i can get to see the power consumption?--Colsmeghead 22:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

This is a useful article. --George 23:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
The disadvantage is that NTFS is a proprietary, complex and undocumented format, making it difficult for third-parties to create utilities or operating systems that use it properly, and leading to lock-in (probably MSN's motivation for requiring you to change). This may lead to problems if you have trouble with your drive and need to recovery tools, or if you wish to change to Linux in the future and still use your old data easily. You cannot easily change back to FAT32. The advantage is that NTFS is a modern filesystem, and performance may be improved. —Pengo 23:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I believe that gaim can connect to windows messenger service. Jon513 12:55, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Giant Ape Removal?

Hey there's this giant ape climbing up the side of a large building carrying Fay Wray in one hand, we don't really want that sort of thing in this neighborhood, can anyone think of a good way to remove a giant ape fromt the side of a building?--64.12.116.74 22:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

You're not alone, New York had a similar problem - have you tried Bi-planes mounted with machine guns? -Benbread 22:45, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Ummm, call Bob Newhart? - Cybergoth 22:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Telling the dude in the suit to sort his life out? Philc TECI 22:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Spraying the ape with a fire hose? On the second thought, let's just wait for God to sort it out. --Bowlhover 23:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Hakuna matata, you needn't do anything. As a previous editor pointed out, New York once had the same problem. In that case they deployed airplanes, but it was unnecessary. "[I]t wasn't the airplanes. It was Beauty killed the Beast." Since your big ape has Fay Wray, you can expect the same result. --George 23:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

That's kind of gross - Fay Wray is dead, you know.

You could always try bringing in Godzilla but things tend to get messy when giant monsters fight in a city. Just ask any resident of Tokyo! --Noodhoog 15:25, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bird in Dubbo

Can anyone identify this bird?

Bird seen in Dubbo
Bird seen in Dubbo

Thanks —Pengo 23:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

The bird is cute, but I'm sure that doesn't help. :P --Proficient 11:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
It is an Apostle_bird--—E! 17:00, 11 July 2006 (AEST)

[edit] Windows Media Player security vulnerabilities

A while back there was some big thing about all of the security vulnerabilities of Windows Media player playing video. So I decided that I'd not play video files. So, now I have changed my mind, a few years on. Are there any risks with playing files that have been downloaded? If so, what are they? I've been to the Cert website, but they don't seem to show any long-term vulnerabilities. Thanks. Mjm1964 23:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

If you update your media player, it removes the vulnerabilities. Most major vulnerabilities for any program are remedied in the next update. Crazywolf 08:00, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't forget Windows Update. It doesn't help if you update the player and leave a massive gap in Windows itself. Note that Windows Media Player 10 doesn't paly nicely with Windows 98. - Mgm|(talk) 12:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)