Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Language/2006 September 3

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

< September 2 Language desk archive September 4 >
Humanities Science Mathematics Computing/IT Language Miscellaneous Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions at one of the pages linked to above.

[edit] IPA and Phonetics

I am interested in learning the IPA and about phonetics in general. I can write phonetic transcriptions for most english words in the IPA, but that's about it. Could somebody recommend some books for me to get to learn how to read all IPA characters and diacritics, and also some books about phonetics? Thank you so very much!!! --Life 02:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Books? Who needs books when you've got Wikipedia's International Phonetic Alphabet page.
You can also try the Handbook of the IPA AEuSoes1 03:34, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Phonetics. Any decent textbook on linguistics should have a phonetics section. I think Language Files from the Department of Linguistics of the Ohio State University is better than Fromkin and Rodman's textbook when it comes to phonetics and phonology.
If you want to dig deeper, Peter Ladefoged's A Course in Phonetics (CD supplements) is probably what you should read next. --Kjoonlee 04:51, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Ladefoged is good, very good. The problem with most of the general ling textbooks is that they mostly insist on using the symbols of the Americanist tradition, with, for example [y] representing the palatal glide ([j] in IPA). I don't remember if that's the case with Language Files; it is with most, including some phonetics texts. One you might look at is Yavas Applied English Phonology, which I'm using in a course this semester. You would want that kind of book rather than Ladefoged if you were interested in a slightly less technical treatment, a less strictly phonetic one, and an application to English. Though I can't say enough about how good Ladefoged's book is. mnewmanqc 16:35, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
The book that I like is "A practical introduction to phonetics" by J.C. Catford. It's a light read, with a more practical, do-it-yourself approach. There are lot of diagrams in there as well. (Note: it is an introduction, so don't expect it to be a full course on phonetics) Alex Ng 19:19, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for all of your suggestions! It's a big help. --Life 22:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Swedish names in Finnish

Does anyone know how the names of Finland-Swedes like Runeberg or Svinhufvud are pronounced in Finnish? Are they pronounced as in Swedish (/rʉːnəbɛrj/) or as if they were Finnish names (/runəpɛrk/)? Rueckk 19:47, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd assume they would be pronounced as in Swedish, or as similar to Swedish as the speaker could manage. 惑乱 分からん 19:50, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
That's what I think, too, but if possible I'd like some cold, hard IPA. There must be some finländare here who can provide that. Rueckk 20:17, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
OK, otherwise, I guess you could pose the question in the appropriate talk pages... 惑乱 分からん 22:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
As a rule the Finland-Swedish pronunciation is considered the most correct, but it is often approximated by Finnish sounds. Common names like Runeberg seem to have evolved separate Finnish pronunciations: in Finnish Runeberg might as well be spelled as "Ruuneperi" (/ruːnepæri/) or "Ruunepäri" (/ruːnepæri/). Svinhufvud transforms into "Svinhuuvud" (/svinhuːvud/), but the name is much less common, so many people attempt a proper Swedish pronunciation. 84.239.129.42 18:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. My curiosity is satisfied. :) Rueckk 21:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] German.. curse

I have tried translation tools to no avail, so does anyone have the German or Dutch equivilant to:

Motherfucking Snake?

Much appreciated. Christopher

I think Germans curse differently than anglophones, so it can't be translated literally... Possibly "verdammte Schlange" (lit. "damned snake") would be a good translation... 惑乱 分からん 22:24, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Wait, does this have something to do with Snakes On A Plane? In that case, I guess an official dub will be released soon, or has already been released... ;) 惑乱 分からん 22:33, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I am quite certain there will no dub in Dutch. Flemings and Dutch people should take pride in being subtitle-people (at least I am proud). The idea of a dub in Dutch ...yes it even slightly offends me :).Evilbu 20:41, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, of course... It's the same situation in Scandinavia. 惑乱 分からん 10:51, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
'Snake' may mean something other than the animal here, I don't know. But how do you translate 'motherfucking'? I can't imagine many other languages have a literal equivalent because it's so incredibly rude. In just anbout any culture on of the worst insults must be to insult someone's mother and a good way to do that is to refer to her sexuality (as in the Spanish 'hijo de puta'). Btw, a possibly worse one, though in diguise, is 'son of a bitch'. Anyway, being very rude also works with a reference to God. In Dutch a possibility is 'godvergeven gluiperd', which means something like 'godforgiven sneaky guy'. The Dutch word for 'snake' is 'slang' (with a short 'ah'), but that probably doesn't have the same meaning. What does 'snake' mean here? DirkvdM 06:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Did you mean godvergeten? --LambiamTalk 17:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
That not only makes more sense literally ('godforgotten'), but is also the correct word. But 'godvergeven' is also used a lot. DirkvdM 06:01, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
"Snake" in this context means "snake". --LambiamTalk 06:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
According to my Dutch informants, you can use "kutslang", as in: "Ik ben die kutslangen in dit kutvliegtuig helemaal zat!". --LambiamTalk 10:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Lit. "I am completely sated with these arsehole-snakes on this arsehole-plane", I think... ;) 惑乱 分からん 14:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Except that "kut" is a different hole, with which only half of humanity is endowed. --LambiamTalk 17:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Sure? Maybe I mixed up kut and kont, then... @_@ 惑乱 分からん 19:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
"kont" is Dutch for "buttocks", I don't think it is often used for the anus, the hole through which fecal matter passes, itself.Evilbu 20:41, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

A literal Dutch translation for "motherfucking snake" would be "moederneukende slang".

In German that would be 'mutterfickende Schlange'. Or 'mutterbumsende Schlange'. DirkvdM 05:44, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't have quite the same ring to it as the other suggestions... - Mgm|(talk) 09:53, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
But would any native speaker ever say that, unless they were joking? 惑乱 分からん 10:51, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Probably not unless they had a real(ly) fucked up motherfuckin' snake.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  15:23, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
The joke might be the bad translation of the English word 'motherfucking', but the 'snake' bit would ruin that a bit because people would wonder what that is about. DirkvdM 06:19, 6 September 2006 (UTC)