Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Humanities/2006 August 11

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[edit] Founding documents and happiness

Is the United States Declaration of Independence the only founding document addressing the pursuit of happiness? I'm wondering whether any other country has included happiness in their founding documents, constitution, etc. Thank you for your help! gretchen 66.237.239.140 00:12, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't a founding document, but the Constitution of Japan has the phrase in Article 13 ([1]). Note also that the phrase doesn't deal with the right to be happy, only with the right to try to be happy :) Most English-speaking countries use the more specific "Peace, order and good government" instead. Ziggurat 00:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Thirty constitutions adopted by seventeen states from 1776 to 1902 have incorporated the phrase. Eleven other constitutions as well as the Federal Constitution clearly imply individual human rights, including the right to the pursuit of happiness, as a privilege of citizenship.

Friedrich, Carl J.; Ursula M. Von Eckardt (1959). The Pursuit of Happiness in the Democratic Creed: An Analysis of Political Ethics, p. 2. 

George Mason, Virginia patriot, legislator, and author of The Virginia Declaration of Rights and of one of the drafts of The Virginia Constitution, is considered by some historians the first to have expressed an inalienable right to the pursuit of happiness in a legislative document. Mason stated, in The Virginia Declaration of Rights:

That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

Ibid. p. 161.EricR 00:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Mouse In The House!

Or more specifically, in my garage!

Or at least I think it is a mouse- I haven't seen it but there are some droppings evident and some paper has been "nibbled". It doesn't seem to live there but there are a few holes that he can get in through.

What is the most humane way to get rid of it? I am thinking if I left poison it might die somewhere else- Not very humane but at least I wouldn't have to deal with it;-) I don't want to catch it in a traditional mouse trap cos I am sure it (the mouse) would suffer. I guess I could block up the holes but I might miss the one he is using.

What should I do? What is the best way to catch a mouse?Downunda 00:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Check your local hardware stores for non-lethal mousetraps. Several varieties exist, and they actually work pretty well (assuming it's not a rat or anything else). What to do with the mouse next, however... Ziggurat 00:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Get a cat. While certainly lethal if he catches the mouse, most likely the sight of the cat will convince the mouse to live elsewhere. Of course, there is always the possibility that the cat, wanting to prove his value, will leave you a "gift" of a dead, bloody mouse on your pillow. :-) StuRat 01:07, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Cats can be severely injured by a mouse, and also run the risk of catching diseases. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Severely injured by a mouse ? A rat, perhaps, but how badly could a mouse hurt a cat ? Maybe a little nip on the nose ? StuRat 02:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Make any potential food (has anything been nibbled on?) unreachable for them. DirkvdM 06:41, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Owls are much better predators than cats, especially when it comes to mice. One owl can catch as much as ten cats when put into a barnhouse (I read that somewhere once, I don't remember where though). schyler 14:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but where do you buy an owl ? And how do you train them to use an "owl pan" ? Also, recall that the object is to scare the mouse off, not to actually kill it. StuRat 17:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
My gosh!!! How big is this owl, that can catch up to ten cats? 69.158.118.85 00:11, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Mouse_trap : the two last types of traps look pretty safe. Check the trap at regular times, then release the poor fellow somewhere far away. Evilbu 18:26, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Why from Eeylops Owl Emporium of course! Where else? ;) schyler 21:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
You certainly wouldn't want to use the mouse trap of Dutch comedian Dorus. Take a small plank, make a slit in the middle, put a razor blade in it and put a bit of cheese on one side. A mouse comes along, sees the cheese, eats it, thinks "Hmmm, maybe there's some at the other side as well", looks across the razor blade (throat resting on it) and says "No, no cheese", shaking its head. DirkvdM 08:48, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Big ideas

Can you please find me a definition of "big idea"? Thank you

"big idea" = an idea which is large in scope or meaning or importance --Bmk 03:32, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
This should really be asked in the Language section of the RefDesk, but I've never been anal about those kinds of things so I don't mind at all responding here. Bmk gave you the literal definition, which is correct. However I have a feeling you're looking for some more idiomatic definitions. There are two I can think of:
If someone says: "Hey! What's the "big idea!", they're basically saying the equivalent of "Hey! What the hell's going on here!" or "Hey! What the hell do you think you're doing". Basically then, "big idea" can be defined as some sort of surprising and somewhat innaproriate, or at least "unnaproved of by the speaker" behaviour.
In other cases it can be used as basically a sarcastic version of Bmk's literal definition. It's somewhat synonymous with a pipe dream. Basically, if one says "yeah...my idiot cousin has a whole bunch of "big ideas" for the family business", it basically means that the speaker believes that her cousin is an idiot with a whole bunch of ideas that he thinks are brilliant, but she thinks are purely useless. Loomis 23:07, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] mens fashion icons

Who would be considered fashion icons for men in the twentith century? Who would be men who have permanently changed the direction of fashion by what they wear?

  • Cary Grant
  • Spencer Tracy,
  • James Cagney,
  • James Bond 007,
  • Dwight Eisenhower: and the short jacket,
  • David Bowie,
  • Sir Elton John,
  • Giorgio Armani,
  • Michael Jackson,
  • Richard Roundtree as "Shaft",
  • Billy Dee Williams,
  • The Beetles,
  • Abby Hoffman and the hippy loo,
  • Bill Cosby,
  • Harry Bellefonte,
  • Mr. Blackwell,
  • James Dean,

--Sfleece 01:07, 11 August 2006 (UTC)S.Fleece

Andy Warhol, Don Johnson, Gianni Versace, Hugo Boss ? StuRat 01:10, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, do you want to include females who had an influence on male fashions ? StuRat 01:16, 11 August 2006 (UTC) Thank you, but I am just looking for male icons.--Sfleece 11:55, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Jawaharlal Nehru. User:Zoe|(talk) 01:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Ozwald Boateng in the UK. --mboverload@ 07:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Kurt Cobain, Hugh Hefner, Elvis Presley (hairstyles anyway), John Travolta, The Monkees, Duran Duran, Snoop Dogg, MC Hammer, Andre Agassi, Pierre Trudeau, Abba, The Captain. Anchoress 07:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you everyone great ideas. Please keep editing or adding ideas.--Sfleece 11:55, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Would Bob Marley be considered an icon?--Sfleece 11:55, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

John F. Kennedy was very important and killed the Fedora. Don Johnson in Miami Vice did the "sportcoat with t-shirt" thing, and Richard Gere in American Gigolo got every man's woman to start dressing him differently. Geogre 12:03, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

According to snopes.com, Kennedy killing off men's hats is an urban legend. (here)
The answers so far have mixed two degrees of influence. The second part of the question asked which men "permanently changed the direction of fashion". That's setting the bar pretty high, excluding fads with no long term impact. I know as much about fashion as I do about physics, but I'm guessing the Nehru jacket or anything worn by Duran Duran and MC Hammer was a fad and effected no "permanent change", if such a thing is even possible in fashion. --Kevin (complaints?) 14:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Marlon Brando, through his potrayal of Stanley Kowalski in the 1951 film A Streetcar Named Desire is definitely a biggie. In much of the film he was wearing what we would call today a simple T-Shirt. Yet at the time, these "T-Shirts" were no more than underwear. It's true, there was some appearance of men wearing nothing but T-Shirts (and pants, of course!) as early as the '40s, in particular by sailors in the Navy. Still, the film and Brando really turned what was an odd occurence (guys going around in public in their underwear) into a definite, avant-guard fashion statement. And apparently it was no mere fad, as T-Shirts are as popular today as ever. In fact I'm wearing one right now...with no pants! :--) Loomis 22:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Then we have to include Clark Gable, since his shirtless appearance in It Happened One Night almost killed the American undershirt industry single-handed. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jesus in other religions?

I know Jesus is mentioned in the Quran. But is he mentioned in any other religious texts? Curius particularly about Hinduism.

Thanks. Cris
I'm almost certain he's mentioned in the Bible.  :--) JackofOz 03:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I'll point out that our article on him mentions the views of several other religions in relation to him, just in case you didn't notice it. I'm not sure if he would be in any religious texts of those religions, though. With regard to Hinduism... well, the most important Hindu texts are probably the Vedas, and they all pre-date Jesus, so obviously won't mention him (at least, not unless you choose to interpret something in them as predicting him). It's possible that he's mentioned in other Hindu texts somewhere (there are quite a few), but I'm not aware of any such mention. -- Vardion 06:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Religions come in this order: Judaism,Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam.

Only the last two mention Jesus I guess. That makes sense , at least. Evilbu 12:55, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The above order is a bit wrong. Hinduism is the oldest religion by age. see here for details.nids 06:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Jadaism mentions Jesus. They mention the Son of God. :)... if that's what you believe. schyler 14:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

You may be interested in Yuz Asaf. MeltBanana 15:49, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Was the mention of "Jadaism" a typo for "Judaism" or a reference to something else? Please don't take this as a cheeky remark, I'm honestly curious. Everyone makes typos. In any case, if it was indeed a reference to Judaism, where in particular does Judaism mention "The son of God"? Loomis 22:12, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Jainism? --LambiamTalk 03:49, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Daniel 3:25 is the only place in the Tanakh I am aware of that uses the expression "son of God" (as opposed to "sons of God"). The Jade Knight 07:40, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

He's mentioned plenty of times in Baha'i texts. -LambaJan 05:13, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

And to construe any prediction in a Jewish text as a mention of Jesus is backwards. Jews predict a son of god, but they differ from Christians in pricisely that they don't believe that that son of god, that messiah, is Jesus Christ. So to say that Jewish texts mention Jesus is to reclaim them as Christian "Old Testament" texts and not Jewish ones. Sashafklein 05:18, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The Tanakh (Old Testament for Christians) unquestionably mentions Christ (=Messiah), but there's nothing that specifies Jesus, or that it absolutely must be interpreted to mean Jesus (as any believing Jew could tell you). It gets more complicated, as well. On the same note, the Qur'an mentions Jesus, but not as Christ—Muhammad specifically denied the crucifixion, as well as any divine role for Jesus. The Jade Knight 07:40, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
I am not so sure of that. Muhammad said that Jesus was but a mortal prophet but he also said that "all men born of the bosom of their mother are slapped by Satan except Jesus and his mother." Flamarande 19:11, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
While I do not consider myself a hadith scholar, I've done some limited studies into Muhammad's perception of Jesus, and did not find anything that would suggest that Muhammad thought Jesus was any bit a greater prophet than he (Muhammad) was. The Jade Knight 03:17, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Jesus is also mentioned in Latter Day Saint scriptures—which includes the Bible, but there are also (extensive) references in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants; unsurprising for a Christian sect, however. The Jade Knight 03:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Besides, according to Jewish prophecy, the Messiah will be a descendant of King David. As the Gospel of Matthew takes great pains to explain, Mary's husband Joseph was a decendant of King David. Yet apparently, Joseph wasn't Jesus' real father at all, more of a step-father. His real father was God. It would appear then that Jesus was indeed not a descendant of David, and therefore, not the Messiah that Judaism had prophecized. Loomis 23:12, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

The Bible in several places states that Jesus was, in fact, a descendant of David (Romans 1:3; Luke 1:32; etc.) This may be taken as an implication that Mary was also a descendant of David (and according to Dr. Lewis, the Sinaitic Palimpsest confirms the claim that Mary was of the house of David). I have read that it is likely that Joseph and Mary were related, though I do not remember where or what the references were. That is all, naturally, besides the point—those Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah became Christians; modern Judaism derives from those who rejected his claims (or never heard them). The Jade Knight 00:26, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Obscure question involving the defense of gay-bashing in the courts

What's the term used in the American (perhaps otherwhere) legal system to describe a moment when a heterosexual is overcome by fear/hate of a gay person and thus becomes irresponsible for actions immediately afterward? I believe there have been a few noteworthy cases recently...

When a defense lawyer claims that such a thing has occurred, it is called homosexual panic, though most of Wikpedia's content on the subject is at gay panic defense. - Nunh-huh 06:30, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Hold on, homophobia can be used as a legal excuse for assaulting people? Or am I misreading this? DirkvdM 06:49, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Oh shit, I thought Law & Order was just making it up. --mboverload@ 07:10, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
It seems lawyers will try anything in a defense case, on the off chance that it just might work. See Twinkie defense and, of course, the Chewbacca Defense. (The popularity of this kind of defensive tactic in the U.S., as the O.J. Simpson trial showed, is that being a victim has achieved a sort of privileged status, so if you can suggest to an impressionable jury that the accused is actually a victim too, maybe they'll let him off easy.) Kevin (complaints?) 07:26, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
These are attempts at showing that the person did not have mens rea -- the criminal intent. They also say that the person did not have a choice and could not have refused the impulse to harm. It is why the insane are not punished the way that the sane are. A sane person chooses to act criminally, but the insane cannot help themselves. This principle goes a long way. For example, there are laws covering hateful speech where one can be excused if the speech was so horrible that you could not help yourself from bashing the other person. The argument, therefore, is that someone is so homophobic and so latently homosexual himself that when the gay person brushed up against him at the crowded concert, his insane fears took over and he had no way to choose not to bash. For the gay panic defense to work, the bashing person has to admit to being a latent homosexual, a sexual abuse victim, and mentally ill. Geogre 12:01, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
A hate crime. I'm sorry, using hate as "temporary insanity" is not sound. ColourBurst 17:12, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
No, well, hate crime laws had to be passes specifically to stifle such defenses. If the person argues that she or he is not a prejudiced, hateful person, that he or she sets out with no intention of a hate crime, but then, through psychological stress, is suddenly flipped out and acts, then it will not be a hate crime but, instead, a crime committed in temporary insanity. I'm not saying that I agree with this tactic, but it is why the tactic works. Hate crimes are for Klansmen, they'd say: the people who have clear criminal intent and clear hate ahead of time, while the gay basher might be overcome by homosexual panic. Geogre 02:33, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Lawyers who come up with crap like this should be murdered by the victim's family, who can then plea "lawyer panic defense", which says they are latent lawyers, who ate a Twinkie, so couldn't help but kill the lawyer they had brushed up against. StuRat 17:30, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

You missed the most important part of the defence speech; the hour-long detailed talk about how Chewbacca is on the wrong planet, and how the bananas are different there. Then no jury would dare to convict them! —Daniel (‽) 21:03, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is shares a Giffen good

A Giffen good is a product for which a rise in price of this product makes people buy even more of the product. Giffen goods may or may not exist in the real world, but there is an economic model that explains how such a thing could exist. Giffen goods are named after Sir Robert Giffen, who was attributed as the author of this idea by Alfred Marshall in his book Principles of Economics.

Are shares a Giffen good? If the price of a share (of a company) rises then more people want to buy the shares. Ohanian 12:17, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

(I have edited your question a little to make it clearer.)--Shantavira 12:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
That wouldn't fit the definition of a Giffen good because it is not just the price that is changing, but people's perceptions of the value of that share. I think Veblen good would be a better description of that situation. --129.110.195.26 15:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
You've got it the wrong way around. The price goes up because people want it. Basic supply and demand. DirkvdM 08:52, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
As the Giffen good article says, in old England the price of bread went up, so people didn't have enough money for meat, so they bought more bread. Shares are not a staple like bread is. DavidMack 18:23, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] An Artist Named Tsugonham Fonjita

Any information appreciated-I have print of girls head dated 1947

Mike James

Best Google can do, unfortunately... seems to be a relatively minor artist, though I found one mention of a piece that sold for $1,300, bottom righton here. Good luck! Tony Fox (arf!) 16:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Tony-I have tried all the major search engines

[edit] Music identification (again)

Does anyone know what this music is called:

Image:Dsagawe.ogg

? I'm playing it from memory, so there are probably some differences from the original. Thanks in advance! --BrainInAVat 16:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

You probably know a thousand times more about music than me, so this should be no problem for you : [2] Just type U(Up) D (down) and R(repeat), compare the results(listen to them) and choose. Something as long as URDDUR should do it. Evilbu 18:32, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

This is an interesting one - it was originally known as Bach's Viola Concerto in C-minor, but it was discovered that it was in fact written by Henri Casadesus in the style of Bach, so it is sometimes known as the J.C. Bach/Casadesus concerto for Viola in C-minor. Nice playing, by the way. --Bmk 23:12, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Musipedia is very well designed and helpful. Bookmark it! Does someone know a site giving any help for images ? Also, why don't people on ImageShack tag their pics ? -- DLL .. T 17:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
There's this news about image search : [3] --193.56.241.75 14:03, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shortest film

Does anyone know the shortest film to be nominated for the Best Picture Academy Award?

Please read the instructions at the top of the page before posting - then you get to pick your own title! --Bmk 23:12, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Googling 'Shortest Best Picture nominee' reveals that it is She Done Him Wrong starring Mae West in 1933 at 66 mins.The shortest winner is Marty in 1955 at 91 mins, followed by Annie Hall in 1977 at 93 mins. Lemon martini 15:24, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Castro : studied in New York and congratulated Roosevelt?(+language)

Hello,

I just watched a documentary about Fidel Castro on Canvas, the second channel by the public broadcasting service in Flanders, Belgium. In fact, those interested and receiving Canvas, can still watch it, they will repeat it all night long (as usual).

They said Castro had travelled, long before he took power, to New York, got influenced by Karl Marx's theories there, and even congratulated president Roosevelt for being re-elected (with a letter). Now if I understand correctly, Roosevelt was re-elected the three times, the last time was in 1944. Castro was at most 18 at that time?! Did he travel to New York at that age?

And then a minor question : at the end of the documentary, he is shown (in military uniform) with a Soviet leader at an airport (presumably Gorbachev), what language were these two men speaking (Russian, English, Spanish?)

Thank you,

Evilbu 19:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Castro's letter to Roosevelt:

In November 1940 he ventured to write a letter in English to Franklin Delano Roosevelt, congratulating the president on his recent reelection to a third term. "I am a boy," he said, "but I think very much.... If you like, give me a ten dollars bill green american in the letter, because I have not seen a ten dollars bill american and I would like to have one of them." In a postscript he suggested that if Roosevelt wanted iron to build his ships, "I will show to you the bigest [sic] minas of iron of the land." They were close by, in Mayarí, he said. The president's short reply, regretting that no money could be sent, was tacked up for every student to read.

Quirk, Robert E. (1995). Fidel Castro, p. 14. 
He was studying at the Dolores Jesuit school in Santiago. Castro later traveled to New York for his honeymoon in October 1948 (Ibid., p. 27), again in September 1960 (Ibid., p. 333), and finally in September 2000[4].EricR 20:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, so he was isn't the USA at the time he wrote that letter?. He has been in USA three times then? You do mean Santiago, Chile? Evilbu 21:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The letter was written while he was in Santiago de Cuba, sorry about that. Castro was on Meet the Press (at least twice?) in 1959. I have no idea as to the total number of trips he made, but there should be news coverage for each post-'59.EricR 22:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Papal succession

Is Benedict XVI the first non-Italian Pope to be elected one after another? User:NoN

Not at all...especially if you consider the Avignon papacy. See List of French popes for example. Adam Bishop 20:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
However, he is the first non-Italian pope since 1523 to succeed another non-Italian pope (1523 was the year Pope Adrian VI died). JackofOz 09:57, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Malcolm Miller Chartres Cathedral, France

Is Malcolm Miller still giving free guided tours of Chartres Cathedral. Thks et Merci

It would seem so. "Malcolm offers tours at noon and 2:45 daily except Sundays . . ." Dar-Ape 17:17, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Acquiring English accent possible?

I've heard it's possible for people to pick up on other English accents/speaking mannerisms. Is it true? The reason i'm asking is because i'm an American (ethnically British though)and i'm going to attend a little bit of college in Britain hopefully, and I thought it would be awesome if I picked up a little of the UK accent.

I think if you live with native English people for more than two weeks, you'll start picking up the accent and the mannerisms, with no more effort than simply socializing with them. It doesn't work nearly as much if you're with other Americans, though. --Bmk 23:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. Most people would actually need to make an effort to avoid taking on the native accent. StuRat 23:19, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
The change in accent might be noticible to your family or maybe other Americans, but I recon you'd still just sound 'American' to me. --Username132 (talk) 13:54, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
There is a huge range of distinct accents in the UK though and if you go anywhere sizeable you are likely to be exposed to a fair proportion. You might end up pronouncing certain sounds a little more as they are pronounced in English accents on the whole and less as they are in American accents, but you are unlikely to develop anything that would pass as even a vaguely convincing native accent. The danger with actively trying to sound more English is that it may be seen as patronising at best and piss-taking at worst, so I wouldn't try it except with people you know. Mattley (Chattley) 23:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't work nearly as much if you're with other Americans, though Of course-- it's obvious (sorry if I sound rude-- I have no intention to appear that way) that I couldn't develop a genuine UK accent if it were just me and a few of my American friends talking to each other. As you all said, that it's actually likely that I will pick up on a UK accent, that does sound true to me because I met someone (who was very kind, and fun to hang out with) who was a redneck, and spoke rather... "southernly" (speaking of southern in the United States), and I noticed after just one day of speaking with him at school that I was saying several words in a southern accent already-- I don't know if it's just that my own speech mannerisms are that moldable or what, but it would seem like I would be able to pick up an accent if I went to the UK for a semester or two in college =D. EDIT: I've noticed also, that if I watch more than an hour of BBC at a time, I start speaking with a tiny accent.. So that means if I actually socialize with Britons for longer than an hour (for several months), i'll develop a genuine accent..? --Rainsey

I think that's quite possible. Some people are more adept at that than others and it sounds like you're among the talented. I am also and have done a bit of travelling as well. I can tell you that some aspects come sooner than others and unless you make an effort you will most likely always carry a bit of where you're from with you, though it'll show less and less. My advice is to just be genuine and pick up and use the accent at whatever rate you naturally do. You won't offend anyone unless they're easily offendable. There's no need to work at these things unless you're an actor. -LambaJan 05:24, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
If you go for a few weeks you'll probably pick up something (if you hang out only with English people and especially if they are all from the same area, speaking the same accent), but after returning to the US, you'll probably loose all that in a matter of days. When travelling, my English gradually improves, provided I speak mainly to native English speakers. But when I get to talk to Germans, I start picking up their accent (which is not unlike the Dutch accent in speaking English, just a lot worse) in a matter of minutes. That said, after months of travelling my Dutch worsens and I once met a Dutchman who had been travelling for years and didn't want to speak Dutch because he said he had forgotten how to and sometimes I hear Dutch emigrants struggling for words when they try to speak Dutch. DirkvdM 09:29, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
You have to question what is meant by "developing an accent". Your speech may be modified - that's certainly likely - but if you haven't developed an accent that the English would recognise as one of theirs then in what sense would you have developed an English accent? Yes - it happens to a certain degree that people pick up sounds and speech patters if they go somewhere unusual, but on the other hand it also doesn't happen a lot. I moved to a city which has a strong and distinctive accent eight years ago and while my own regional accent has softened over this time I certainly haven't started talking like a local. Nor have any of my incomer friends, and the UK-based Australians, Americans and Canadians that I know haven't started to sound English either. You also have to take perception into account. If you are dealing with unfamiliar accents, and unless you are a good mimic, which most people are not, you may not get the nuances. Lots of Americans confuse Australian and English accents, and Brits can't generally tell Canadians apart from Americans. Will you sound more English to you? Very likely. Will you sound English to the English? Unlikely. Will you sound like Dick van Dyke in Mary Poppins? Possibly - and you don't want that. Mattley (Chattley) 09:46, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Contrary to popular belief, there is no "British accent" only the Queen speaks like the Queen, and only James Bond speaks like James Bond. Pretty much all other people have a regional accent. This will become most apparent for example if you are intending on going to college in Exeter, and pick up mannersims in Newcastle. After spending time in Britiain, to Brits, you will still seem american, as it is your american maanersims etc. that set you apart, though on your return to America, you may seem more british to them. Philc TECI 13:25, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Don't pick up a Newcastle accent - it's totally unintelligible. DirkvdM 09:16, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
A Newcastle accent is very useful if you want to sound as hard as bloody nails. On the other hand, a Brummie accent is a thing of grotesqueness beyond all imagining. (It is, to be fair, easier to understand than Geordie) --Dweller 15:38, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Those subaccents are all part of the British accent, just as there are subaccents which are part of the American accent. Although, in the US, there is one majority accent spoken in most of the country, with only small variations, excluding the East Coast and the South. Is there a "majority accent" in Britain, as well ? StuRat 23:38, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Not really. (The following answer is a generalisation).
  • 1/ Upper-class people (5% of the population?) have their own distinct accent which does not vary at all by region (except for Scots).
  • 2/ People a bit lower down (10-15%) have a different accent which doesnt vary much (a bit different in the north). This is the accent now used by BBC newsreaders; previously they used the posh accent. When people on here do IPA for British English they use this accent.
  • 3/ Lower middle-class and working-class people (75%-80%) have a variety of regional accents. No one region is big enough to predominate in terms of numbers. Each of these accents ranges from barely noticeable (ie almost converging with accent 2) to very strong depending on the person's social class and education.

But its in a state of flux - lots of upper-class people now use accent 2. And urban working-class accents are gaining at the expense of rural ones. Jameswilson 02:45, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


Chicks dig teh accents --mboverload@ 09:20, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Back in 1995, my family spent a summer in Northern Ireland, and by the end of the summer my father was told that he sounded more like an Irishman than an American. My college roommate last schoolyear had an Irish accent, and his speech influenced mine to a small extent. Nyttend 17:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Squatters

What is the deal with squatters? What laws is there against them in Britain? Is it true that if they legally get into your house then it's theirs??????? I've heard so many different things about it and I finally want to know the truth! - Thanks for the help Joel

In your specific example the question is a definite no. That person certainly doesn't own your house.
Squatters' rights usually only kick in after a great deal of time, many years at least. Plus there's the concept of adverse possession. (I just realized that both of those links are directed to the same page). To answer your question as briefly as possible, squatters' rights are very easily defeated. Let's say some squatter is living in a property of yours. It takes very little to make sure they never acquire ownership. Even if you want to be totally lazy about it, all you have to do is tell the person, even as infrequently as every couple of years, and probably even much less often than that (depending on your jurisdiction): "I allow you to live here for now". By doing that the squatter will never end up owning it. Of course it would be wise to have some sort of proof of it. I suppose another possibilty might be to call up the local police department, tell them of the situation, and tell them that you want to be on record as consciously allowing that person to be there. That's all that's necessary. Loomis 00:48, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Possession may not matter as much as the right to use something. According to the Dutch squatting article, the Netherlands is one of the few countries where squatting is not explicitly forbidden by law. If a house is left unused for over a year (and there are no clear intentions of plans to start using it) and people move in and can make it clear that they live there then they can't be evicted (basically, all that is needed is a bed, a table and a chair). Which is fair, considering the housing situation in some cities, maybe not so much to give the squatters a place to live, but to stop speculation on houses, which only worsens the problem. You may find that using someone else's property is unfair, but so is holding on to a scarce good just to drive up the price. However, you specifically asked about the UK, so my apologies for this answer. :) DirkvdM 09:42, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
What if I build a hut somewhere in the Netherlands, and no-one questions it for a year - am I allowed to keep my hut there? --130.161.182.91 13:35, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank You :)