Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 September 21

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[edit] September 21

[edit] processing equipment for sugar cain

can you help me find out where to get informatin on manufacturers of prosessing equipment for cain and other biofuel equipment ? Thank you William Dumas —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jarheadwwd (talk • contribs) 00:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I typed "sugar cane processing equipment" into the search box on Google and got plenty of hits for companys that sell this equipment (both new and used). I suspect the reason you couldn't find anything is that you are spelling it 'cain' rather than 'cane' (which is the correct English spelling). SteveBaker 00:37, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I suppose the spelling depends on whether you're planning on raising cane or raising Cain . :-) StuRat 04:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] can we send mms via computers?

Is there any website which enable us to send Videosongs, multimedia messages from online to mobile? Don't suggest me the websites which allows us to send normal text messages Temuzion 04:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is the "Draft" comming BACK ?!

Really, is it comming BACK ?! "We're (The US)" in two wars, and getting ready to take out Iran and/or Syria as well. 205.240.146.131 04:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

  • There is no support in the general population for a draft, and since the current crop of politicians is pretty much spineless, it seems highly unlikely. Besides, George Bush may not like Iran or Syria, but they haven't given him enough provocation. Clarityfiend 04:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, nor is the Ref Desk. That said, "getting ready to take out Iran and/or Syria" is merely amateur speculation and there is little evidence to suggest that the DoD, Congress, or the electorate desire a draft in the near future. — Lomn 04:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
The draft in the U.S. could be reinstituted in weeks (or days) if the need for soldiers exceeded the number of volunteers. Young men are required to register, and rhe draft boards are ready and waiting. 90 days later, the draftees would be combat-ready, as was the case from the 1940's through the 1970's. Edison 07:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Selective Service would be the article on that system. Rmhermen 13:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
90 days? That sounds rather short, especially in the high-tech U.S. army. Clarityfiend 03:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
If they bring back the draft, the outcry will make hippie flower children look downright conservative. —Nricardo 04:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rainbows

Having seen a most beautiful (double) rainbow last evening I am prompted to ask if they are always the same diameter. Any one know please>--88.110.163.163 06:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I think the answer is no. If the rainbows are caused by the same water particles and the image is shifted then the double rainbows will be identical. However, more probably two different sets of water particles formed each rainbow, so they will be different. Given that the rain/humidity is probably similar at the same point in time, though, the particles are likely to be similar, thus the rainbows are likely to be similar in size. Micah J. Manary 07:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The size is not determined by the size of the water droplets, but simply by the substance that the droplets are made from. As the light enters the spherical raindrop, it is refracted, reflects off the back surface, and then refracts again as it escapes. For water this angle is 42 degrees for red light and 40 degrees for violet light. This is what causes the seperation of colors. this angle is the angle between the sight-raindrop line and the sun-raindrop line. So from this I believe that any water-droplet rainbow will always be the same size. Secondary bows which have the colors inverted are caused by a second internal reflection inside the raindrop, and have a similarly fixed angle.
You can make smaller rainbows from another medium, like glass beads. Give me a few minutes and I'll track down a very interesting physics lecture explaining all of this and more with discussion of this interesting example [1]. Capuchin 07:33, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Here we go, I believe it can be found here: [2] although I cannot verify this because my work blocks google video. It's one of Prof. Walter Lewin's fantastic set of undergraduate video lectures. All of which are highly recommended. Capuchin 07:41, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Actually the answer is right in the article Rainbow the primary appears at an angle of 40.6°–42° from the point opposite the sun. The secondary at 50°–53°. --teb728 07:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Obviously, that should be the first place to look. I was overcome with excitement at seeing a question I could answer in detail!! Also, why is this not on the science desk? Capuchin 07:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] HSARPA

I want to know where HSARPA falls in the homeland security line of management. I noticed that the similar DARPA is listed in the defense box thing at the bottom of the page, but HSARPA is notably absent. Just go the the darpa page and scroll down (I don't know what those big boxes are called - portals?). Where would hsarpa analogously fit? Micah J. Manary 06:55, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah, here is it. Department of Homeland Security: Organizational Chart. HSARPA (Homeland Security Advanced Research Projects Agency) falls under the auspices of the Under Secretary for Science and Technology, who in turn reports directly to the Secretary and Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security. Plasticup T/C 15:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Argentina currency exchange

I'm going to Argentina from Europe. I want to change 1,000 euros in Argentine pesos (ARS). Am I better of changing the money in Europe or should I do it once in Buenos Aires? Thank you 81.240.119.157 10:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Currency markets are highly liquid and almost perfectly competitive. It shouldn't matter in which country you change it, but be sure to go to a real bank. Those currency booths at the airport will rip you right off. Plasticup T/C 13:13, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Empire State Building

What is the maximum amount of people allowed in the lift in the Empire State Building? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.142.1.195 (talk) 10:47, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

They call them elevators in American, and the Empire State Building has 73 of them so it's hard to say. Neil ム 10:57, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Should be placarded in each one, so if we have any Wikians who work there, maybe they can do a quick eyeball check for us. Saturn 5 13:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
No Original Research. -88.111.190.248 14:03, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Doesn't apply to refdesk questions, but only "in relation to the topic of the article". --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Reading and citing an external reference, even if it's a placard in an elevator car, isn't original research. Original research would be if you gathered a bunch of people and started stuffing them into the elevator car, stopping only when the car was volumetrically full or the safety systems actuated.
Atlant 16:42, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
If it helps, the elevators in the ESB were installed, and are maintained by, the Otis Elevator Company ([3], [4]). They have a capacity of 3500 lbs each ([5]) - capacity depends on how fat the passengers are. If you assume an average weight of 200 lbs (and the average weight of an American male is now 191 lbs(!)), then the capacity is 17 people. This link ([6]) states it is 15 people, or 200 per elevator per hour. Neil ム 14:35, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Rainbow Stylin'"?

I like the song, but what exactly is "Rainbow Stylin'"? --Candy-Panda 11:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Rather rude, I'm afraid: urbandictionary. Naughty Swedes. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Note, that link is NSFW. Plasticup T/C 13:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
It describes a sexual practise. Whether that makes it NSFW is probably a matter of opinion. I did flag it as rude; was that not enough? --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:16, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
It's entirely possible that definition was just made up by a single person who put it in urbandictionary- we cannot assume the term is widely used for that meaning just from one very unreliable source. Friday (talk) 14:19, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
True. Another definition I came across was "A hairdresser's in Hounslow". --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sari - Source of image

Can someone please help me in trying to trace the source of an image on this page, under gallery. The actual image is no longer there, although the reference remains - traditional sari fabric.jpeg. I would like to get hold of the image at 300 dpi to use on a book jacket. Any assistance would very much be appreciated. Kind regards Lyn Parr ((email removed for your protection)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.96.151.94 (talk) 11:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Where did you find the name of the image referenced? I can't find any mention of it anywhere, not even an old one on Google. - Mgm|(talk) 12:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I suspect it was "Sari fabric.jpg", shown in the gallery at [7]. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
The log shows no history. Does this mean it never existed? I also searched through Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion/Log and found no mention. Plasticup T/C 17:03, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

It definitely exist because I found it on another website and they told me that they had got it from this page. Lyn

[edit] Cathedral

Having visited many cathedrals in Europe, I have noticed that most are divided internally to make several smaller churches within the one larger cathedral, why is this. Thanks guys and girls81.144.161.223 12:44, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

We don't seem to have much on this. Passing references, which don't explain the underlying logic, at Cathedral architecture of Western Europe#Presbytery and chapels and Cathedral diagram#Liturgical east end. I'd opine that Cathedrals are, somewhat, the shopping malls of devotional buildings. Chapels within Cathedrals provide a means of honouring favourite saints & the Virgin Mary; are things which can be endowed by the well-off, for whatever purposes such endowments serve; and presumably were built a) because they could be and b) because they were copied from prior examples of cathedral art. Hopefully someone who actually knows will now visit this question. AFAIK, cathedral buildings had wider uses than merely as sites for religious devotion in ages past - the mall analogy may indeed be accurate; I vaguely recall that they were used for a range of commercial and social activities, upon a time. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:55, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
You may be thinking of the temple in Jesus' day. I don't recall mention of commercial activity inside the cathedral itself. Fairs and markets took place in the town square which was often right out the front doors of the cathedral though or in the cathedral close. Here in a interesting article with a historic quote on the problems these markets presented: [8]. Rmhermen 13:34, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Side chapels provide a more intimate space for private prayers or meditation or small services. A side chapel in a central position to the east of the high altar is traditionally dedicated to the Virgin Mary and is known as a Lady Chapel - this plan of St. Alban's cathedral shows a Lady Chapel at point O. Gandalf61 14:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Sometimes the cathedral is a later building constructed over a number of smaller shrines; the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, for example. I don't think that's true for most European cathedrals, but perhaps they were influenced by the design of buildings in Jerusalem. It was conventional (and I guess it still is) to build churches in the shape of a cross, which handily provides lots of little nooks and crannies for smaller devotional spaces. Also, I do remember reading that Old St. Paul's Cathedral was filled with merchants and chicken coops and homeless people at some point. Adam Bishop 15:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Increasing the life of electric/electronic equipment ?

hi, other than the precautions such as protecting the equipments from dust, surge, mechanical shocks, liquids etc, turning off the power supply in the wall outlet increase its life (when not in use)?. This is based on my assumption that transformer of the equipments function even when on stand by mode or when it is powered. please provide other suggestions that might increase their longivity. 13:08, 21 September 2007 (UTC)~~ posted by User:131.220.46.24 - where's SineBot when you need it? Tagishsimon (talk) 13:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Opinions may be divided as to whether unplugging the power supply increases the longevity of said power supply. There's a contra-supposition that most wear and tear originates when power is applied, and then power is turned off (e.g. through the thermal expansion and contraction associated with powering up & down). Clearly there's the slightly more important question of saving the planet, &c. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
For most items without moving parts (motors, etc.) I think keeping the unit stable would be good; i.e., powered up all the time. It reduces the temperature cycling which leads to failure of marginal solder joints, and keeps the unit dry from condensation in humid areas. Also, some items are less than stable when not at operating temperatures; I recall a particular Quatre DG250 audio amp I owned which would deliver 250 watts of howling feedback for the first day or so after powering up, but sounded very nice afterwards.
Special mention must be made of the original IBM PC which singlehandedly inflated the market for outlet strips, by dint of its power switch being one of the most frequent points of failure, requiring replacement of the entire riveted together power supply. Gzuckier 14:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Transient currents may cause damage too when turning things on and off. That's why light bulbs often burn out right when you turn them on or off. Transients can be much higher than the steady state currents. It may be better to leave something on if you will need it soon rather than turn it off. 128.196.149.25 03:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
It depends on the parts in question. Electrolytic capacitors, found in many power supplies, last longer if they're used -- a power supply that sees regular use will last longer than one that's sitting on the shelf. Integrated circuits last longest if they're operated at a continuous temperature, to prevent cracking from thermal fatigue, and if they're operated at a low temperature, to prevent electromigration of the wires. Other parts, such as resistors and inductors will last a very long time under any conditions. --Carnildo 21:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Chip sockets
Chip sockets
Any electrical/electronic device with moving parts, a heater, or a filament will probably fail sooner if operated continuously than if turned off. For low power, all solid state equipment, or transformers/inductors/capacitors, I don't see that leaving them operating would be much of a factor in the lifetime. One issue is that if they are plugged in, they may fail because of spikes from utility switching operations or lightning that they would not be exposed to if they are stored unplugged. Heat is an enemy of electrical equipment, and a heavily loaded transformer would fail before a non-loaded one because of insulation breakdown and oil deterioration if oil-filled. That said, corrosion due to moisture might cause earlier failure of non-energized equipment than equipment kept warm, unless it was stored in a dry environment. I agree that electrolytic capacitors might deteriorate while non-energized for an extended period. Storage batteries might deteriorate if left uncharged. Resistors would fail sooner if hot. Edison 01:45, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
With electronics where the chips are not soldered in or clamped in position (ie those in sockets like the ones in the picture to the right) thermal cycling will gradually work the chips out of their sockets. Generally you can just push them back in again and all will be well. Fortunately, these days, most chips are soldered in so this particular problem hardly ever happens. However, that issue has generated a lot of urban quasi-legends in that it used to be true that powering PC's up and down wasn't recommended - but now it really doesn't matter. I fyou really can't bring yourself to power down your PC, at least turn the monitor off. SteveBaker 02:47, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your answers. I conclude that I power off only the solid state devices when not in use and leave the other equipemnts as it is?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.201.71.192 (talk) 18:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

As for temperature, the fans they provide with electronic equipment are usually the bare minimum. You might want to remove the cover and point an external desk fan at the device to keep it cool. I've done this with computers that tended to overheat.
If the device has moving parts that can be lubricated, like a fan, do so regularly. If the device can be operated at different power levels, use the lower power level, such as with a dimmer switch on a light bulb, by turning the monitor or TV brightness down, or by running an electric space heater on low. StuRat 04:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] JD Whisky

Why is alcohol (especially spirits such as Jack Daniel's) more expensive in some states than in others? Is it because of tax laws in the differing states? --MKnight9989 13:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC) YES86.209.24.71 13:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)DT

Yes, liquor and tobacco products are heavily taxed at the Federal, State, and sometimes, locality level. They call it a "sin tax" so they can feel more justified laying these taxes at every possible point. Saturn 5 13:33, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Additionally, in some states the prices for alcohol are set by the state. Wherever you go in Vermont, for instance, the price of a bottle of Jack Daniels will be the same. The prices are even available online on the state's web site. Dismas|(talk) 15:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Here in neighboring New Hampshire, we do Vermont one better: our state has a legal monopoly on the sale of "hard" liquor and such booze is only available at "state stores". My favorites are the giant ones we locate at the rest areas of interstate highways. "Buy booze along our highways, but don't drink and drive!" We do this, of course, in an attempt to snatch business (and revenue) from the other neighboring states' liquor arrangements.
Atlant 16:49, 21 September 2007 (UTC)


NB Jack Daniel's is whiskey with an e. To nerds like me, the difference is important. Mine's a Laphroaig, thank you for asking. It's a whisky. And it's like drinking Islay mud. Yum. --Dweller 11:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please help me

Three stripes on my shoes...
Three stripes on my shoes...

I would like to know:

  1. How many points ou score in Scrabble for the letter Z ?
  2. Which sport label uses three stripes on its clothing and footwear?

thank you. --124.121.51.83 13:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

See Scrabble letter distributions for the scrabble question. Depends upon the language. 10, in English. Adidas, IIRC, for the second question. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the shoes: Doesn't it state the manufacturer's name on the tongue? Plasticup T/C 17:08, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Looks like. It's right there in the photo. --Masamage ♫ 17:26, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
That is what I found so confusing. Plasticup T/C 17:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
It confused me until I looked through the history of this page to find that the OP didn't post the image, Tagishsimon did. That would have been good to put into the caption of the pic or stated in the response. But yeah, it wasn't the OP. Dismas|(talk) 18:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yahoo News using Wikipedia article

I read a news article on Yahoo [9] about Channel 4 reporter Sarah Smith's impending marriage, and then decided to check out her article on WP. The last part of the Y! article (a potted biography) appears to be almost a direct quote from WP with no attribution and "Copyright © 2007 Yahoo! All rights reserved." at the bottom, but the GFDL apparently "requires all copies and derivatives to be available under the same license" (GFDL). I know there are probably a bunch of sites that use WP content, but is it common for such a high-profile one to do so, and aren't they breaking the terms of the license? Thanks! --Kateshortforbob 15:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The source of the article is ITN; yahoo is merely carrying the feed. The last paragraph, about 40 words, is clearly a cut & paste from the wikipedia. But I guess this is at the lower end of the offending scale, and we could account for it as payback for all of the 40+ word phrases wikipedia has "borrowed" from here, there & everywhere. AFAIK Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks#GFDL compliance is the place we report instances like this that cause us enough angst. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. She works for ITN, so you'd think they could make up their own biography! I was just curious - I'm used to seeing (and removing) copy and paste stuff on Wikipedia, but I've never seen WP stuff elsewhere, except in mirrors. Thanks also for the link; I didn't realise there was actually somewhere to log that kind of thing. --Kateshortforbob 22:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
The article is also on ITN's site here — Matt Eason (Talk • Contribs) 23:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Thre is always the hazard that someone will see a commercial website which has ripped off text from Wikipdia, then tag the Wikipedia text as a copyvio from the commercial site. Edison 01:33, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
In most cases, our comprehensive history mechanism can resolve those situations. We know exactly which editor added which words and when. Also, it's NOT wrong for Yahoo to copy our words - it's only wrong for them to copy them without giving us credit for it. SteveBaker 14:00, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Which appears to be the case here. Plasticup T/C 15:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
I've noticed that quite a bit of use is made of Wikipedia articles on eBay auction pages now. Sometimes, there's a credit. I may be wrong, but I can't see any harm in this development? Xn4 02:25, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fourth Geneva Convention Article 1

Where is Article 1 for the Fourth Geneva Convention. The artical in Wikipedia starts with Article 2. What does Article 1 state? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.165.172 (talk) 21:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

The full text of the Fourth Geneva Convention is available here. Article 1 states "The High Contracting Parties undertake to respect and to ensure respect for the present Convention in all circumstances," i.e. that the signatories promise to uphold the Convention that they are signing. - Eron Talk 21:08, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spike Lester

What does Spike Lester know about my soap opera characters' lives and where they are living? Ericthebrainiac 21:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Judging from his extensive Evil Genius-esque resume on the article you linked, most likely everything. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 23:24, 21 September 2007 (UTC)