Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 September 14

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[edit] September 14

[edit] First

Waht was the first article on Wikipedia? 18:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

This is actually in the Wikipedia FAQ (WP:FAQ): While the first edit ever made is believed to be a test edit by Jimbo, Wikipedia's founder, the oldest article still preserved is, as documented at Wikipedia:Wikipedia's oldest articles, the article UuU. It was created by the user User:Eiffel.demon.co.uk on 16 January 2001, at 21:08 UTC. This was on the second day after the start of Wikipedia. It was a 'disambiguation page' for the letter 'U' - but had to be called 'UuU' for ancient technical reasons that no longer apply! SteveBaker 18:37, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
See CamelCase for the why. Rmhermen 21:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Animated Greenscreen background

Where can I find some free animated background that I can add to a video filmed on a greenscreen using Adobe Premiere. I would like the video to look like it is from a news broadcasting room. Thanks. Acceptable 00:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ireland

i need the goods of ireland.71.92.67.51 02:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Just walk to the end of the rainbow. DirkvdM 07:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Maybe look at Ireland#Economy, Economy of the Republic of Ireland, and Economy of Northern Ireland. --jjron 07:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Or possibly Celtic Mythology SaundersW 08:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Turning 18

What new rights and responsibilities does a person gain upon turning 18 in Australia (in NSW if it matters). What activities are no longer prohibited etc? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fountainmon (talk • contribs) 08:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

You may be interested in the articles on Age of majority, Legal drinking age, Age of consent, etc. Dismas|(talk) 12:00, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
18 is the age of majority in Australia, so it's the age at which you can sign legal documents and are considered legally responsible for your own actions - this means you can get things like credit cards, bank loans, etc. You can buy tobacco, alcohol, porn, firearms, or other age-restricted products, and drink alcohol on licenced premises. You can have sex with your teacher or guardian, if you are that way inclined (AoC in other circumstance is 16). You should also be registered to vote if you're not already (do it now! If you're not on the roll before the election is called you won't be able to vote in this year's federal election). FiggyBee 12:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I believe the rolls will be closing at 8pm on the day the election is called, so you'd have about 10 hours, max, after the public announcement of the election. Unbelievable. -- JackofOz 14:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Netherlands

What percentage of flowers are exported to the world from the Netherlands? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.83.26 (talk) 09:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Our article Netherlands says "A significant portion of Dutch agricultural exports are derived from fresh-cut plants, flowers, and bulbs, with the Netherlands exporting two-thirds of the world's total." 152.16.188.107 09:52, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok Thankyou very much. If there is anything possible to do just ask me. Thanks again!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.83.26 (talk) 10:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean how can you contribute? If so, take a look at Wikipedia:Most wanted articles. Or just look up something you know much about and see if you can add/correct anything. DirkvdM 18:02, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Concrete Specs

What I shall know when I want to buy concrete " ready to be used" to build a house. What are the specs of the concrete used to buil houses? For Concrete specs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.132.14.38 (talk) 10:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Concrete is not a good material for building a house, unless you are constructing a monolithic dome. What type of house are you building? Or is this just for the foundations? Anyway, I've no doubt your concrete supplier will be able to advise you what types of ready mixed concrete they can supply you with.--Shantavira|feed me 12:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Concrete is a good material to build houses. I remember the Habitat for Humanity photo where after Hurricane Andrew only the Habitat-built concrete homes were still standing (without their roofs, though) Here is an image of one after Hurricane Katrina: [1] (The second image shows the surrounding destruction better.) They stand up to tornadoes, too:[2] In more northern climes, concrete is used to add thermal mass to house to lower heating and cooling bills. Systems like Blue-Max (modular styrofoam forms with rebar cross-linking) are designed to be quickly assembled and them filled with concrete. These "forms" stay in place in the walls, instead of needing to be removed like traditional forms, providing additional insulation value (and they provide somewhere to run the electrical, etc. in channels cut into the foam. Rmhermen 14:10, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Yeah - I agree - I have a house built that way using the GreenBlock system (very similar to Blue-Max). It's GREAT. Ours was the first house to be built that way in the Southern USA and I'm very impressed with the technology. It's about 5% more expensive than a normal house - but in very hot or very cold climates, you can recoup that investment in 5 years. The walls are about a foot thick - steel-reinforced with foam either side, brick cladding on the outside (for the look of the thing really) and sheetrock on the inside. Check out our article on Insulating concrete forms (ICF) for details. Ecologically speaking, the concrete isn't a great material because it gives off CO2 as it cures - but there is less concrete in the house than in the road leading up to it - so I don't feel too bad. Plus, the excellent insulation and 'thermal inertia' of the building cuts your fuel bills down to less than half what a normal US standard home would require - so over the life of the building, you are doing pretty well. However, I can't help our OP - the specification of the concrete depends on a bunch of things, none of which I know anything about! I know that our ICF home needed very runny concrete in order to for it to flow into the forms and around the rebar properly - and as a consequence it took a very long time to set properly...but if you are talking about a 'tiltwall' building or some other method of concrete construction - I have no clue. SteveBaker 18:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The principal spec for concrete is its strength, measured in America in PSI. The more PSI, the more pressure the concrete can withstand without blowing apart. A given use of concrete (say, for a foundation footing) will usually call for a certain strength of concrete and you must use concrete that is that strong or stronger. Serious users of concrete cast test samples from each batch and then have them crushed by a testing lab to see that the concrete actually used met or exceeded the spec. The concrete article can tell you more (and, IIRC, talks about "slump", a related concept).

Atlant 15:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Commonwealth of Britain Bill

Does anybody know where I could find the full text of the bill (Wikisource is incomplete)?--Rambutan (talk) 12:36, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The web site for the British parliament is http://www.parliament.uk, and they do have Hansards there, but I couldn't find anything. You may have to try contacting someone there. Confusing Manifestation 05:24, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CRB check

Hi UK Wikipedians, my job has asked me for a completed "declaration of Criminal Background Form". I have an "enhanced Disclosure" form from the Criminal Records Bureau - is this the same thing as a "declaration of Criminal Background Form"? I guess it is, but nowhere on the form are the words "declaration of Criminal Background Form" mentioned. Thanks in advance, jobseeker —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.16.23 (talk) 14:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

In my experience they are not the same. The CRB Enhanced Disclosure has the records held by the state on any cautions, convictions, and certain other information related to you. These Disclosures are not normally transferable from one employer to another (I have about 5, including 2 from the Scout Association). A "Criminal Background Form" sounds like an employer's own form asking their staff to declare any convictions/cautions. Depending on your job the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act may apply - it gives limited circumstances in which an ex-offender does not have to disclose previous convictions or cautions. I would suggest you double check with your employer exactly what they need from you, and it may also be a good idea to speak to your Union Rep, or the Citizens Advice Bureau if you have any concerns about your legal position. DuncanHill 14:21, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] UK Building Society Stability.

Please understand that I am NOT seeking either legal or financial investment advice here - I am genuinely curious to know what ultimate protection a UK Building Society Saver has when the worldwide markets go a bit squishy as they have in recent months, supposedly as a result of the US led Sub-Prime Mortgage Lending problem coming home to roost. Let's say, I have deposited £25,000 in a UK Building Society - not Stocks and Shares - not a Bond - just a savings account, I merely would like to know what ultimate security I would have for my deposit should house prices begin to fall significantly. Is the Building Society obliged to meet its repayment obligations to me in such circumstances? Thanks in anticipation.81.145.241.55 14:52, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

First of all changing house prices don't have any direct impact on the Building Society. The problem some Building Societies and other lenders are having is that they've made loans that some of their customers can't afford to repay. (Banks and Building Societies always have this problem but its worse than normal at the moment). This increases the lender's Bad Debt risk and hits their liquidity (which from the reports I've read is what happened to Northern Rock). In part this problem has been caused by house prices rising too fast in relation to earnings which has tempted banks to led too much relative to the earnings of the individual. Borrowers have then had trouble meeting their repayments as interest rates have risen. In relation to your position as a lender, you can take some comfort from the fact that the Bank of England acts as lender of last resort and will normally bail out a major bank or building society (as it did with Northern Rock). Two caveats I would place on this though - check with the Bank of England that your Building Society is covered by them, and also bear in mind that if Northern Rock is just the tip of the iceberg there will come a point where even the BoE can't bail everyone out (but we are a very long way from that at the moment and have never got close in the history of the BoE). Kelpin 17:01, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
House prices do have some impact - if you can't keep up with your loan and house prices have risen substantially - then you sell the house, pay off the loan and buy a smaller/cheaper one. But when house prices are not rising (or even, perhaps, falling) and especially if the interest rates are going up then you end up in the 'negative equity' trap where you can't sell off the house because it wouldn't raise enough to pay off the loan and the loan is secured against the house so you can't sell the place without paying off the loan. That's when things turn nasty. At that point borrowers have no choice but to drop the keys off at the building society/bank and walk away from the debt. The company then sells your house - but it doesn't recoup enough to cover their outlay and the money they owe to people saving with them. If things get really bad then the savers get worried about their money and withdraw it. This leaves the building society in deep trouble because they have lent the money out already! Worse still, if they are short of money because savers are pulling out then they can't lend the money out to house buyers. A shortage of capital depresses the number of buyers of houses - which causes a supply glut and further house price decreases inevitably follow. This nasty little spiral has to be nipped in the bud - which is why the Bank of England has to step in and provide the confidence necessary for the savers that if all else fails, "The Bank of England Will Help". Lending people more money than they can afford to repay is the root cause of this - and while you can kinda get away with that when house prices are rocketing upwards and there is equity in those properties, it doesn't work out when they are stagnating. SteveBaker 18:13, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

It's worth pointing out that Northern Rock is a bank, NOT a building society. DuncanHill 20:36, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

In the UK, savings deposits in firms regulated by the Financial Services Authority are covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. In the event that a firm goes into liquidation, the scheme provides compensation to depositors - limits on this compensation are shown here. However, let us be very clear that Northern Rock is not in this situation - its problems are with liquidity, not with solvency or bad debt. The BoE is not "bailing out" Northern Rock, it is simply providing short-term liquidity - like a bridging loan. The FSA's statement on Northern Rock says "The FSA's judgement on Northern Rock is that we believe it is solvent, meets all capital requirements and has a good quality loan book. We are clear it should continue to be open for business." Gandalf61 21:10, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tie For Gold

In the Olympics, is it possible to tie someone for one of the top three medals? If so, what happens? Black Carrot 16:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, definitely. If two athletes tie for first place, they both get a gold medal, nobody gets a silver, and whoever comes next gets a bronze medal. Here's a story about such an occurence: [3]. --Sean 17:31, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
See also the 2002 Olympic Winter Games figure skating scandal, where they awarded a second set of gold medals to a pair of Canadian figure skaters, but didn't rescind the ones given to the Russians. Clarityfiend 00:21, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
In boxing, if I remember right, there are always two bronzes for the semi-finalists (or that's how it was thirty years ago). —Tamfang 23:59, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Boxing at the 2004 Summer Olympics, Boxing at the 2000 Summer Olympics etc would seem to suggest that that is the case - two bronzes in each event. FiggyBee 14:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Led Zeppelin Reunion?

I heard from a couple of friends and the radio that Zeppelin is getting back together. Is this true? If so, who will play drums? Grango242 20:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Tickets are on sale, or have sold out, and it appears that it is John Bonham's son Jason.[4] SaundersW 20:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
They're reuniting for one concert at The O2 in London. More info here. John Bonham's son Jason will be drumming. — Matt Eason (Talk • Contribs) 20:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the info! I just wanted to know one more thing. Is it just one show, or is it a tour? Thanks! Grango242 02:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

From what I heard on the radio today, it's just one show. Although the DJ also made a quip about how The Police were supposed to be getting back together for "just one show" but they went on tour if I heard it right. Dismas|(talk) 02:50, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
You register for a lottery to be able to buy 2 tickets at 125UKP each (plus handling charges). My understanding (no references) is that ther are around 10,000 pairs of tickets available and 20,000,000 registered folk. I expect some of that number is people trying multiple registrations. -- SGBailey 08:36, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
On the radio, I heard that Led Zeppelin is doing the one show in London, and they're getting back together for a reunion tour some time in '08. There'll be more info on that, later, apparently.

[edit] F-16 over my house?

On a semi-regular basis, I hear aircraft over my house in Brooklyn. But they don't sound like the slow, lumbering jetliners headed to Kennedy or LaGuardia but different. Could they be F-16's? I do remember that there are fighters flying over cities for protection ater 9/11 but searching Google gets me lots of hits about F-16's on 9/11 but nothing useful about current flight patterns. What do I do? --Blue387 20:24, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I know exactly what you are talking about. I live on the Jersey Shore, about 20 miles from the city, and I hear (and see) these planes. I think they are F-16's, but I don't know why or if its on a schedule. Grango242 20:42, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Go outside and have a look? The F-16 is fairly recognisable. Alternative fighter aircraft could be the F-15 or F-22. FiggyBee 08:09, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Got a pix of the plane(s) ? 205.240.146.131 21:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I am going to guess that the air force doesn't publish its current flight patterns... Plasticup T/C 18:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Your location isn't that far from McGuire Air Force Base. — Michael J 21:07, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
McGuire isn't a fighter base though; they have transports and tankers, which wouldn't sounds much different from airliners. I think a fighter patrol is more likely to be from Langley or Otis. FiggyBee 22:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Probably F-15 or F-16. I don't think they'd use the F-22 for patrolling: I'm sure those are used only on high priority targets. · AndonicO Talk 01:22, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Sure they do; that is to say, the wings with F-22s (of which there are two at Langley, including one Air National Guard) will use their F-22s for everything, including routine patrols and training flights. FiggyBee 03:18, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Wow, interesting. · AndonicO Talk 15:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] japanese clothing

I'm looking to do a halloween costume, and I'm not so good with identifying clothing items. I'm searching for patterns, and I need to know the name of the garmet(s) in this picture: http://www.court-records.net/arts/OA%20-%20Maya.jpg. It seems very similar to this outfit http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/Jolynda/Naruto/Tsunade/Tsunade___Hime_by_white__angel_7.jpg except the jacket is shorter... does anyone have technical names for me so I can find patterns? Is it a haori over a kisode, or is that different? Kuronue | Talk 23:21, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Neither of the garments pictured look like "traditional" Japanese women's garments to me, as far as I can tell they are just short wrap dresses. That said, if you know your way around a sewing machine Make Your Own Japanese Clothes by John Marshall (ISBN 087011865X) may be of help to you. The book has its detractors, but I personally found it useful. For full-size patterns for traditional Japanese garments, try Folkwear Crypticfirefly 02:45, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Additional comment-- the second woman (the one who has pants on) is wearing what looks somewhat like a gi-- the outfit worn for martial arts? There is a pattern for those available here: Round Earth Adult Gi Pattern Crypticfirefly 02:49, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
It's some form of kimono, jacket, and obi; I can alter a pattern easier than coming up with my own, so I'll look at gi patterns for the kimono portion. Kuronue | Talk 04:30, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Ah! Could it be a yukata under a jacket? It's worn with a lighter obi apparently, and one more likely to be solid-colored... Kuronue | Talk 04:40, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Nope, yukata are not more likely to be solid colored, in fact they are typically prints. (The indigo-dyed process described in the article results in blue & white prints.) They are just more casual than kimono, and as you noted, when worn by women the obi is not as elaborate. But the first thing that tells me the woman in the first picture is not wearing a kimono is that the garment is short. It is more likely to just be a wrap dress of some sort with an obi-like belt tied in back. Presumably though she is in some sort of fantasy or science fiction universe, so there's no reason why she shouldn't be wearing a fanciful garment. The second woman, the one wearing pants, could be wearing a type of traditional casual wraparound top called a hippari, except that I don't see any sleeves & normally they have long sleeves. (I don't see anywhere that they could be rolled up.) Since this is a costume you are making, why not just go through the pattern books at your local fabric store until you find a bathrobe or wrap dress or wrap top pattern that looks adaptable? Crypticfirefly 06:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Followup: Take a look at Simplicity 4074 (scroll down, middle column). If you look at the sleeveless, collarless shirt view, you could probabably adapt that into something that looks like the sleeveless top on the woman wearing pants. Crypticfirefly 06:13, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
One last followup. Your question made me curious enough to try to figure out who these characters are, and I think the problem is that you have two different kinds of outfits going on. The "Maya" character is wearing a mock wrap dress of some kind with a sewn closed slit, a wide soft long bow for a belt tied at the side, and a unconstructed jacket or cardigan with 3/4 length sleeves. The "Tsunade" character is wearing the kind of "gi"-like garment you see in martial arts films. (More pictures here.) But a sexy version? You could use anything that gives you the right line, including the gi pattern or the Simplicity pattern (make the lap left over right, not right over left), depending on how much cleavage you want to show and how much control you want over that while you are wearing the outfit. (See how the neckline isn't lying smoothly in this picture?) In at least some of the drawings her top seems to have cap sleeves rather than being sleeveless as I had surmised earlier. Anyay, good luck! Crypticfirefly 06:51, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks a bunch! I'm trying to do Maya, but Tsunade looked like it was similar and is typically a more recognizable character. I'll take a look at the links when I have some time this afternoon. And, to clarify, I'd meant earlier that the OBI was more likely to be solid for a yukata. Kuronue | Talk 15:12, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Hmm.. it doesn't seem sewn closed to me, and I don't see a slit - it seemed to me that it was perfect due to video game physics, and it looks to be basically a short kimono held shut with an obi. But those scans of the artbook are an excellent source; now I can see all the angles. I think I'll use a kimono pattern, as it's technically a very simple garment, but make it shorter and less ornate; I've found an Obi in the right color, so then it's just making a jacket thing to go over it. Kuronue | Talk 04:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dungeons and Dragons

I've noticed the article Dungeons and Dragons is a featured article and read over it. However, there is one question I have that I'm still unsure of. Does the Dungeon Master make up the entire adventure? If so, then is the game completely imaginary, in the sense that every step is created by the players? Or does he/she have some sort of guide to go on? Thanks. Acceptable 23:37, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The DM makes up the entire adventure, including dungeons, encounters, and even the world; however, there are pre-published adventures and pre-published campaign settings availible for those who prefer them. There are guides to concrete things - the Dungeon Master's Guide talks about pricing for items, what items do, et cetera, and the Player's Handbook has races, classes, and spells, and then Monster Manuals have monsters for the DM to use as enemies, but the DM can overturn any rule using "rule 0", written in the DM guide. The things as written are intended to be balanced, but many DMs feel that their ideas are better balanced, and so change the rules; these are called "house rules". Kuronue | Talk 01:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
There is considerable variance between groups of players. Some use prebuilt campaign books with all of the adventures predesigned - and they follow the rules exactly. Others have the DM make up the adventure from scratch and may or may not closely adhere to the rules. There is a basic rulebook - plus lots and lots of additions that you can either use or ignore. Some things you really need the rulebooks for - just so the players can assume a certain level of consistency. So the spell list, the player stats, basic movement and combat...but in terms of what monsters there are and how the more arcane stuff goes - it's easier to toss out the rulebook and let the DM decide stuff. The rules are mostly useful for inexperienced DM's who don't make it fun for the players. If the DM is fair - and good at his/her job - the players won't care. But it's certainly not like any other game you'll ever play. It's much MUCH more open in structure. If there is something you'd like to try to do that's not covered by the rules - then the DM is supposed to improvise and invent an appropriate rule on the spur of the moment. So if there were a monster you couldn't beat like maybe a dragon - and you decided to fill your helmet with water from a nearby stream and throw it at the dragon to cool off it's firey breath...there is no rule for that - but the DM CANNOT disallow you to do it since it's a plausible thing - so he's going to say that hitting the dragon with the water is maybe the same rule as for throwing a knife at it - and the damage you do might be half what you can roll on a single six-sided dice. That's his call - everyone should accept it - the game goes on. Players are supposed to stay in character - so if you are an evil orc-troll hybrid - you really shouldn't be nice to the other people in your party. You should be grumpy and basically mean - even if it is to your advantage to help someone out from a gaming perspective. The next day you play, you might be playing a goody-goody Paladin and even though you could make a packet by stealing stuff from one of your buddies when their back is turned...you shouldn't do so. The game ONLY works if both the players and the DM treat it more as theater than as a competitive event!
When I played (quite a long while ago, shortly after the game first appeared), the rules were lacking in many ways and you pretty much had to make up stuff as you went along. We had a lot of 'house rules' and we were quite happy to invent new (and often ridiculous) treasure items monsters and other situations. For example, the best character I ever built up as a player was a high level hobbit magic user - who had amongst his stuff a Smith and Wesson's Model 29 .44 Magnum revolver with unlimited ammo - which would only fire if you could recite the bit from Dirty Harry when he goes on about whether he fired six rounds or only five and "Do you feel lucky punk". Since the time taken to do this is not covered in the rules, the DM would usually require two (or if he was mean) three combat rounds and make me recite it from memory. I also had a "Bag of Tricks" (a standard D&D item) which had been manufactured incorrectly and turned out to be a "Bag of Bricks"...which contained an infinite supply of bricks that one could hurl or otherwise employ. Since bricks were also not covered in the rules, we had to have 'house rules' for hurling bricks at monsters.
Played well, I think it's one of the best non-computer game in existance - played by people who insist on arguing and playing 'dungeon-lawyer' by demanding exacting following of the rule book...it's miserable and boring and frustrating. Play with friends or not at all! SteveBaker 23:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)