Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 October 27

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[edit] October 27

[edit] Traditional crimes

Looking at this list.. are all of those things still illegal? Fornication? Bastardy? Mailing an obscene letter? Sodomy? Posession of "buglary tools"? Lying? Vagrancy? All of these laws seem hopelessly outdated and horrifyingly not-the-government's-business, especially from a libertarian perspective. Specifically about vagrancy, how can it be illegal to not work? The article says that there are some 30,000 violations each year.. are these people seriously arrested simply for having no income? What if you don't want to work? --ffroth 00:18, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I imagine it depends on the jurisdiction. I do know that most places in the US do have a law regrading burglary tools. Some areas still have vagrancy laws on the books, though it has nothing to do (in practice) with not working and everything to do with sleeping in public spaces and/or trespassing on private property to find shelter regardless of what the law says (which is no income=vagrant, it is possible to have an income and not work). As far as fornication goes, check the article, Utah apparently still has a law for that. 161.222.160.8 01:10, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, let's see. What sort of fellow do I want to move in down the block? He should frequent prostitutes with the intention of getting them pregnant and fuck anything that will hold still when he can't afford one, spend part of his jobless day writing dirty letters, stand ready to burglarize my house when he's short of cash, and deny all that when asked. Yup, that's my ideal neighbor. --Milkbreath 01:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

So the important thing to note about the acts that you've enumerated is that they are all in the "not involving moral turpitude" part of the table. So the table isn't necessarily saying that these things are crimes. What it's saying is that, if you've been arrested or convicted for them some place that they are crimes, that fact will not by itself disqualify you from entering the United States on an I-94. (I am not a lawyer.) --Trovatore 02:32, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Many states still had and sometimes enforced sodomy laws until 2003, when a Supreme Court decision ruled that they were unconstitutional. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 02:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


Whoops -- I missed that Ffroth had mentioned sodomy. That one is apparently on the "moral turpitude" side. Don't bother trying to figure it out. It's the government; it doesn't have to make sense.
I had to look up fornication and sodomy to be sure I knew what they meant back when the laws were made. Turns out I didn't know. Fornication had more to do with visiting prostitutes than taking your girlfriend to the hayloft, and sodomy wasn't only homosexual anal sex, it included bestiality and all sorts of turpitudinous stuff. --Milkbreath 02:54, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I would be interested to know whether such a list could be successfully challenged on constitutional grounds. My guess is it would be difficult because the court might well find that aliens have no constitutionally protected interest in being allowed to enter the United States. Similarly, US citizens have a constitutional right to join a communist party, but I think alien communists can still be refused citizenship on that basis. --Trovatore 02:40, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
But it says "Crimes involving moral turpitude" and "Crimes not involving moral turpitude" .. both are crimes --ffroth 16:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
No, you're missing the point. Lots of things might be crimes somewhere. The list says, if you happen to get convicted of one of the acts on the right-hand part of the table, even though it's a crime according to the law where you were convicted, that fact alone will not prevent you from getting an I-94 visa waiver. --Trovatore 18:07, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
  • As for how current they keep these things, when I was becoming a US citizen in 2003, I believe they asked me if I was an officer in the Third Reich. --Sean 22:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Surveying Number system

What is the name of the numbering system used in surveying townships. I know it goes like this

6 5 4 3 2  1
7  8  9 10 11
16 15 14 13 12
17 18 19 20 21
26 25 24 23 22
27 28 29 30 31
36 35 34 33 32

I think it starts with the letters "bou" and has a "ph" in the middle somwhere. It is something like bouphronic, or something like that.--ChesterMarcol 00:23, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

See Public Land Survey System and Boustrophedon. 161.222.160.8 01:09, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Just an observation: Oh...my...god. That method of reading text is so much more efficient than flicking eyes back to the edge of a page to read the next line. I once thought text should be written in no more than 5 or 6 word lines (like newspapers) so the eye is just continuously drawn downward instead of flicking back and forth. But this method is amazing. Wow! Many thanks to the OP for bringing up the issue and much love to the 2 unbelievably educated responders. I just found about Reference Desk about a week ago and I'm absolutely captivated.

Just for fun, I quote the first sentence of the above paragraph

Just an observation:  Oh...my...god. 
is text reading of method That 
so much more efficient than flicking 
of edge the to back eyes
a page to read the next 
                   line.

-- SGBailey 22:49, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Definitely. I'm trying to learn tachygraphy (that's how we call it in Brazil anyway, but the page is a redirect) and I decided to learn how to write the symbols backwards so I can alternate directions for each line, then I won't waste time going back to the edge of the page all the time. A.Z. 05:17, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Celebration of the 4 days that matter the most

During the equinoxes the sun spends an equal time above and below the horizon. About 12 hours day and 12 hours night. During the solstices every point on earth experiences either its shortest or longest exposure to the sun for the year. These 4 days are the most profound celestially of the 365 days that make up a year and yet they are all but forgotten in modern western culture. I'm not an historian but I do know that these days were absolutely revered in past cultures. Why are they not celebrated now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sappysap (talk • contribs) 00:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

They are still celebrated by many people, albeit in slightly bastardized forms. This is because the days of celebration were co-opted into modern religions and cultures as we moved away from a pagan sun worship to other deities. For example, Nowruz is celebrated on the vernal equinox, as is International Astrology Day, Ostara and Bahá'í Naw-Rúz. Autumnal Equinox Day (秋分の日/Shūbun no hi) and Vernal Equinox Day (春分の日 Shunbun no hi) are celebrated in Japan. See also Equinox#Cultural aspects, Winter solstice and Summer solstice#Cultural aspects. Rockpocket 01:17, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
In the Christian calendar, I believe that Easter co-opted the vernal equinox festival and Christmas took over the winter solstice. (Hang about, maybe it's actually the Feast of the Annunciation for the spring... well, it all gets a little muddled. Let's just say there is a fair bit of spring mythology around Easter.) Midsummer Day was the feast of St. John the Baptist (which doesn't seem to get much play anymore, unless you live here. The autumnal equinox was Michaelmas. - Eron Talk 01:28, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Of course, for those of us in the Southern Hemisphere, Easter now happens in autumn. -- JackofOz 03:32, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Oh yes, those quaint antipodeans with their backwards seasons... (Note: that's jealousy talking; you're heading into summer and I? Had frost on my windshield this morning.) - Eron Talk 03:36, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
You're welcome to summer, Eron. Give me cool/cold weather any time. -- JackofOz 00:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I was just getting used to South African oranges when California's crop suddenly came into season this week. —Tamfang 02:10, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Those days were important to primitive cultures for a couple of reasons. Firstly, they gave you a relatively easy way to know where your calendar is compared to the true year (a non-trivial problem when you think about leap-years and such that those people had not yet come up with). Secondly in a mostly agricultural society, the seasons were important to telling you when to plant and when to harvest and such. In a modern society, those days have no special relevence - there is some mild degree of interest - but it's simply not important enough to warrant a major celebration.
Modern celebrations are set on days that various religious and political entities created in order to gain favor with the common people and to push their own agendas. So the spring equinox was typically celebrated in England on May 1st as "May Day" - a pagan holiday, Beltane, Green Man day...all sorts of traditional celebrations. Then, later the Church decided that this day must be the birthday of the Virgin Mary - presumably in order that they could 'steal' the celebration and steer people into treating the holiday as a religious day (the same thing happened with the Winter solstice and Xmas incidentally). Later, the May 1st holiday was co-opted by the communist/labor movement and used as 'Labor Day' - but then a subsequent conservative government didn't want the labor party getting free publicity - so they moved it from the actual May Day to the first Monday in May. In 1995, the holiday was moved by a week to celebrate VE day. So what happened to celebrating the Equinox? SteveBaker 15:59, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

The summer solstice, sometimes called Midsummer's Day (in contrast to the notion in some countries that it's the first say of summer), is a holiday in some countries, such as Sweden. See under Midsummer. --Anonymous, 03:30 UTC, October 28, 2007.

[edit] Raking

It's that time of the year again.. I say we shouldn't rake leaves b/c it makes good fertilizer and it makes grass less yellow looking. What's your take? --JDitto 03:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Removing the leaves means removing the nutrients, which will then have to be replaced artificially, so on that count you're right. But it's an aesthetic thing. If you want to leave it to nature to do things the way it's used to, then why have a lawn in the first place? Btw, a friend once experimented with leaving the garden in his new house in a newly built up area (so there was only bare ground) as it was. He hoped for many different natural flowers. Instead, he got one tall grass that covered almost the entire garden. DirkvdM 09:21, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
We did the same thing back when I was living in a shared house with some friends. The thing is, though, that the flowers aren't going to just sprout up immediately if they haven't been growing there before. So unless you feel like waiting several years or decades for your natural meadow, you'd better gather (or buy) some wildflower seeds and spread them around first. Oh, and you still need to mow it from time to time (with a scythe for example; a lawnmower literally won't cut it here), unless of course you happen to have some sheep around to do it for you. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:40, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Rotting leaves produce nitrogen which can burn or damage the green stuff beneath. Raking is not just aesthetic. Leaves also compost much better when raked up and bagged or put in a heap.--hotclaws 09:37, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

WHAT?! They produce nitrogen?! I don't think so. Nitrogen is a gas and it's really non-reactive. Four-fifths of the air is nitrogen. It doesn't burn or damage anything! SteveBaker 15:38, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Decaying organic matter produces nitrogenous wastes (see mention in ammonia. See also fertilizer (ammonium nitrate). --Justanother 18:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Per Justanother, in the context of agriculture, 'nitrogen' is shorthand for nitrogen that has been fixed—converted from a form that's inert and utterly harmless (but also useless as plant food) into something bioavailable. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:43, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I believe grass fertiliser contains a lot of nitrogen (in whatever form), so grass probably needs a lot of it. Which makes sense. Grass isn't stupid (never thought I'd hear myself say that). It grows on the ground, so leaves fall on it. So it has evolved to deal with that, probably even depend on it. DirkvdM 19:21, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Everything in moderation, as they say. A little nitrogenous fertilizer can be a good thing; a lot tends to 'burn' a lawn. A few leaves will provide valuable nutrients; a lot of leaves may kill the lawn by blocking light, restricting air circulation, and releasing toxic breakdown products. Remember that in the wild, grasses tend to grow best out in the open—not under the trees.
The exact amount of leaf cover that will help your lawn will depend on the local climate, the quality of the local soil, the type of grass, and the species of tree. (Evergreen trees like pine or spruce shed highly acidic needles which will kill grass.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:42, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
It does make the ground very slippery though so raking pavements/streets makes sense. I guess with grass areas it looks nice to start with but then it will start looking 'messy' (since our idea of beauty is rarely nature in its entirety) so probably best to rake them once most of the leaves have fallen. ny156uk 10:04, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Is it just me or does it usually get chilly and crisp in like late september? Why are we a month late? --ffroth 17:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't know where you are but here in Vermont we've had a very unusually warm fall, so a lot of our leaves are still on the trees in most of the state. Dismas|(talk) 21:59, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
That's what Froth said too, isn't it? Note that it is tempting to attribute this to global warming, but a single warm fall can happen without that. A whole series of warm falls and other seasons, as we indeed experience, is a different matter - that is reason to assume it is caused by climate change. DirkvdM 12:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
What do you mean? Our pohutukawa is just starting to bloom! :p --antilivedT | C | G 05:16, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the suggestion to compost the leaves first (I do this in my house's gutters :-) ). However, if you run them though a mulching mower first, you could possibly get by with leaving the leaf leavings on the grass. StuRat 01:06, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] arachnophobia

Hello, what are the various methods people use to cope with arachnophobia? Thanks! Cheers,JetLover (Report a mistake) 04:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I run to my mom upstairs and tell her to squish it ForeverDEAD 04:58, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Gently place a glass behind it, touch it's 'nose', it turns and runs into the glass, tip it out of the window. Works every time! DON'T kill anything ever --212.139.103.15 06:03, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
This method is just wonderful for getting rid of spiders in a clean non-touch way, but it does not overcome arachnophobia. Why cope when you can cure? The constant avoidance of the phobia stimulant serves to re-enforce the fear. Phobias can best be overcome by discovering that the irrational fear (think tiny spiders here) has no basis. This dicovery can be achieved by gradual exposure to spiders until the anxiety diminishes. Having said that in my experience of treating phobics there are a number of factors that need to be taken into consideration, the motivation and personal determination of the individual being one of the most important. It can be done a a self-help project but it is easier to do with the help of an accreditted professional. 99% of phobias can be cured. Richard Avery 07:29, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Yep. Start off with a big cuddly soft-toy spider in bright, non-realistic colours. About as non-spidery as you could imagine and yet still be worthy of the name. When you can cope with that, you might go to a brightly coloured toy plastic spider, then a more realistic plastic spider, then to photos and videos of real spiders, then a trip to the zoo to see the spiders safely contained behind glass, then onto small, non-threatening live spiders at a distance - then closer - then bigger spiders. Each stage can take as little or as much time as is needed. Before you know it your pet red-knee'd tarantula will be sitting in the palm of your hand. SteveBaker 15:26, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Or, you could take some advice from America's professionals and confront your fears head on...on national T.V. [1]!!! Follow the steps seen in any of the listed videos to be cured by the end of the show. Azi Like a Fox 18:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Are we giving medical advice now? -- JackofOz 00:04, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
More like psychological advice. Does this have anything to do with the featured picture for today? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cryo921 (talk • contribs) 01:46, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
oops forgot to sign my post Cryo921 01:51, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Llandloes

Does anyone have any general or specific geographical and historical information on Llandloes in the UK? 12.72.25.202 05:10, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Llanidloes?—eric 05:26, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] US military nomenclature

Can someone tell me the specfics of how we went from calling our weapons

ForeverDEAD 05:14, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

If I got you right, it's the designation for the rifle, It goes on with each model. For example:

F-14 Tomcat

F-15 Eagle

F-16 Fighting Falcon Cheers,JetLover (Report a mistake) 05:17, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I mean if you look at the weapons military designation their fundamentally different(except maybe m16 and m1) but the M1903 is named for its year along with the M1911 but the M16 and M1 garand arnt. How did we go from basically saying what year its adopted to the way the German army does it. ForeverDEAD 05:23, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know the history behind the change, but it looks like it happened around 1928–1929. The M1 Garand went from M1924 to T1E1 in 1929. Sometime after that, the Army switched from T to XM for development models. My best guess it that the Army adopted a new system; by then I'm sure they were adding more than one system a year.
The Army, Navy and Air Force use different nomenclature systems as well as using each others. The Joint Army-Navy Nomenclature System used by all the services for radio gear. There are also separate systems for aircraft, photographic equipment, optical equipment, comsec gear, airplane and rocket engines, missiles and nuclear weapons. This might make a good article in itself. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 07:36, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what "the way the German army does it" means, as the Germans were still using year designations for small arms up to the end of WWII (eg StG44). FiggyBee 07:55, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I refer you to the lyrics of Aircraft Salesman (A door in the foot.) from Captain Lockheed and the Starfighters:
Salesman: Well, that's ok. We can make some modifications. It'll cost a little extra, but it's worth it. Just look at the shape of this beauty. Look, I tell you what we'll do. We'l' redesign the plane, right? And instead of just calling it the F104, we'll call it the F104G.
Strauss: G?
Salesman: Yeah, eh, Herr Minister - G. G for Germany
Strauss: G. for Germany, eh....
Salesman: Yeah, ehm, G for Germany, Herr Minister, you know, it'll go well on the plane, we could do a logo around it and it would look very tastful up in the clouds. We could illuminate it a bit - so, that on dark days you would see it twinkling like a star.
Strauss: G for Germany..? Also G for Gott strafe England... (God punish England)- - this I am enjoying. (laughter) G for Germany!!
--Tagishsimon (talk) 14:44, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What military base are theses from

I am from around Parkville maryland and every so often i see A10's fly right over my house. Can anyone tell me or give me an idea of which base they come from ForeverDEAD 06:04, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

The 104th Fighter Squadron of the 175th Wing of the Maryland Air National Guard operates A-10s out of Martin State Airport in Baltimore. FiggyBee 07:44, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Legal system of the US

I would like to know websites where I can learn about the legal system of the US. A.Z. 06:30, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I mean the everyday aspects, and news, etc. A.Z. 06:45, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Slashdot :) If you have patriotic tendencies though, steer clear --ffroth 16:49, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Try Court TV. They have a website. --Justanother 18:31, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, you can start with several Wikipedia articles, such as Law of the United States, Common law, State court, State supreme court, United States federal courts, and U.S. state. These articles are not perfect (in fact the first two are rather incomplete) but will serve to give you a broad overview of how the whole system fits together.
Good sources for getting a taste of the raw flavor of the U.S. legal system would be TMZ.com and The Smoking Gun. These Web sites post a lot of legal documents from various celebrities' legal cases.
Finally, don't forget to visit the Web sites of the largest court systems, including uscourts.gov and courtinfo.ca.gov.
One example of the kinds of stuff that comes into the U.S. legal system is the Forms section of courtinfo.ca.gov. Besides standard forms for pleadings and subpoenas, there are also forms for divorces, temporary restraining orders, menacing dogs, emancipation of minors (when a child wants to "divorce" from his parents), and media requests to photograph/record/broadcast court proceedings. I especially love the section of the notice of menacing dog hearing form (Form MC-601) that says "DO NOT BRING THE DOG TO THE HEARING."--Coolcaesar 18:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks to all of you! I liked The Smoking Gun, because it has the real documents, exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. I didn't check the other websites yet. A.Z. 03:05, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barbed-Wire Fence

A chain link fence.
A chain link fence.

Why are some of the fences I see, like the one pictured (a chain-link fence with a few barbed-wire strands at the top), sometimes have the barbed-wire angled towards the inside of the fenced-off area. Wouldn't it be more logical for the barbed-wire to be fenced off towards the outside (like most fences of this kind I see), therefore preventing people to get in. Note that I have seen this in places even when there is no reason to keep people from escaping. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.208.110.207 (talk) 09:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

You have to fence within your perimeter. Overlapping another property without permission is not allowed.86.197.17.8 14:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)DT

And if someone decides to enter the property they need to think how easily they can get out - particularly if they need to exit in a hurry! Getting in over a fence with the barbed wire leaning 'inwards' is much easier than getting out. Richard Avery 15:09, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
There are several institutions that would like to keep you in. Plasticup T/C 23:38, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Is it really true anyway that people have a harder time crossing the fence if they start from the concave side? I can imagine a strong person grabbing the top strand of barbed wire (between barbs), or the top of the bracket holding the wire, and using it to pull themselves up and over. On the convex side, they'd be more likely to rub against all the strands. --Anon, 03:40 UTC, October 28.
It is significantly easier on the convex side. On that side you can climb the fence near one of the barbed wire support posts, stand atop the fence with one foot on the top of the fence and the other on the barbed wire support and jump over. Unless it's a very high fence or you're landing on a hard surface other than grass, it's not that bad of a fall since you're ready for it. On the concave side, you'd have to climb the fence, then reach for the top strand which is behind you or directly above you. Your feet, if you're wearing shoes, don't have much purchase on the chain link and will likely slide out of the holes in the fence. At this point you have to pull yourself up and over when another barb will likely pierce your stomach as you try to pull your self over. Or if you are near one of the barbed wire supports, you still have to contend with getting over that top strand. It's possible to grab the support and use your feet to swing over the top strand. Then you can be in sort of a prone position and roll yourself over the strand but then you take the chance of tearing your leg up. So yeah, concave is harder. Dismas|(talk) 04:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, glad to have that cleared up. --Anon, 07:10 UTC, Oct. 28.

[edit] Getting up early in the morning

What are the benefits of getting up early in the morning?Is late rising an indication of laziness and sloth? sumal 10:46, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

No, some people just have a different internal clock, and can't help but sleep in late. --Candy-Panda 12:17, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
One possible benefit is if you like to be outside doing work or hobbies, you can be out when the sun comes up or soon after and get more done. Many people aren't morning people though and don't mind sleeping in. Or they work non-standard hours, so getting up late is just a result of having worked late. For instance, those who work second shift in a factory or astronomers who would rather be awake at night rather than during the day. Dismas|(talk) 16:16, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Having previously worked the first shift in a factory I'd have to say the feeling of "getting a head start on everybody else" is quite nice. -- DatRoot 17:05, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
The more melanin you have the more vitamin D you need, i.e. the more time you need to spend in the sun (of course, you ultimately don't need all that much to get adequate vitamin D levels, but still). So my point is one benefit is getting more sunshine. Of course your body also follows circadian rhythms (rhythms of the sun) so it's healthier to be awake when it's daylight, asleep when it's nighttime. Oh and by the way, I'm the worst in the world, I sleep the day away, am upp all night, and I miss the sun. Rfwoolf 17:13, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Ugh, speaking as someone who wakes up most mornings at five and is not a morning person, it can be hard to come up with any benefits. Beating the traffic affecting later risers is one positive, and watching the sun come up and seeing my city slowly come alive is kind of cool. Also, apparently you are granted access to some proverbial worm, for whatever that's worth. My job also has a 8PM to 6AM shift, which I much prefer despite its wrecking havoc on my circadian rhythm, after which I usually sleep until at least 3PM. So much do I hate waking up early. Azi Like a Fox 18:16, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
A strongly shifted circadian rythm can have psychological consequences. Part of this, I think is a continuing sense of isolation as nobody else is up, and you're very much left to yourself. Another factor is the lack of natural light, which does seem to affect us. Studies have shown that people who work at night are about 4 times more likely to commit suicide (of course there is a cause and effect trap there, as being poor may well be the cause of both having a night job and being unhappy). risk 22:09, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Catching the worm. Plasticup T/C 23:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Dawn is one of the prettiest times of the day. Pfly 09:03, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
For a photographer it is the prettiest time of day. DirkvdM 12:42, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
I just heard someone on tv (the subject was the end of summer time) saying that some people have a late circadian rhythm and that the standardised working hours wreak havoc on them. In the weekends they compensate by sleeping in until very late, but then on sunday the misery starts again. Such people supposedly are much more likely to be smokers or heavy drinkers. DirkvdM 12:42, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wierd Sleep Disorder

Hey, I have a friend of mine who has a weird sleep disorder. Many times when he is sleeping, and if someone tells him something, like if you tell him that he's on fire, he will start acting like he's on fire for a bit. He will even start talking (can even have a conversation with him, he once said he didn't do his homework) and walking around sometimes, and almost threw a hat box at a bus driver and occasionally will start punching at things (if he thinks your his enemy), he even punched me in the nose and squeezed my arm and flipped me off. He can even have war flashbacks he never had (played to many ww2 video games). But when he wakes up, he doesn't remember any of it at all (or sometimes remember partial things) Now my question is, what is this called? I've been looking around and I can't find anything on it. So if someone knows, please tell me. And if no one knows, I suggest a page should be made about this.


President stickface 17:30, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like fun! The WWII thing doesn't sound too unusual- sometimes I dream in a particular game engine if I play that game too much.. like I dream in cartoon if I play TF2 or even the subtle hallmarks of the Source engine appear in my dreams if I play too much counter strike. I used to lucid dream a lot and I'd try to get a game started in the dream, but it was too hard to keep track of enemy AI (not to mention completely un-fun since you just control the enemy head to move right into your bullets) and I kept losing parts of the UI like the gun (it's easy to put yourself in a familiar environment like a CS map, but creating interactive objects is a different story for me- I had to settle with just pasting the image of a gun onto my visual field instead of actually holding one. I've never actually held a gun, that's probably why), and besides I don't get very restful sleep with my brain in full gear --ffroth 17:38, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Nice! I always wondered if anyone else ever dreamed in cartoon. I do occasionally and everyone seems to think me bizarre for it. 71.226.56.79 05:08, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like there may be elements of Jumping Frenchmen of Maine at play. 84.64.123.72 17:38, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
It's something relating to threshold consciousness, most likely. --24.147.86.187

I think it is something he need to see a doctor about. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 21:28, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


No,no, it's like he's in a hypnotic state when he's sleeping and the only times he wakes up is if you hit him really hard or something like that. He will do very odd things while he's sleeping. Here's a "few" examples: I once told him he was tazered, and then he started shaking violently, I even said he was a rockstar and he flipped me off. If someone were too start poking him and making machine gun sounds, he may even start acting like he's being shot. If you punch his leg, he would act like something happened to his leg (shot, blown off, injured). I even said that he was captured by nazi's and he started punching me (then I told him I was on his team, and I finally got him to shake my hand after awhile) I even heard that he started laughing very evil-like once (of course he could be faking this all and that would mean that he went through all this punishment to make us laugh). It's not like he's haveing dreams, it's like the people around him are creating the dreams for him and he's acting it out for them.

President stickface 00:38, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


Sounds like your friend is highly suggestible. -- Diletante 16:25, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Odd speed limit sign

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What does this sign mean... What does this sign mean...
What does this sign mean...
that this doesn't?
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On The Headrow in Leeds are a number of speed limit signs, but unlike any other speed limit sign I've seen in the UK, the signs consist of white rectangles with "Max Speed: 15". There's a photo of one of the signs in situ on flickr [2]. It's not a tram speed limit (they're diamond, and Leeds has no trams anyway), and as far as I know, no other form of transport gets dedicated speed limits in the UK (the Highway Code says nothing). There's no other info given explaining the signs, and the only seem to exist along the Headrow - nowhere else. I can't imagine it being a mistake either; the Highways Agency is usually pretty effective when it comes to keeping road signs standard, and it's not like speed limit signs are so rare that a sign printer is going to be genuinely unaware of what one looks like! Laïka 20:33, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually HGV vehicles are subject to different speed limits to other traffic, e.g. 60 on motorways and 40 on urban dual carriageways. I don't know in this instance but it could be an HGV limit. ---- WebHamster 20:47, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
The "Max speed" signs look like American "Speed limit" signs, so maybe there's some sort of international standardization effort being tested in the area? Just a guess though. Dismas|(talk) 21:23, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Studying the linked photo, which is a little dark, I wondered if it was the maximum speed at which it was ok to drop litter? Look at the photo carefully. -- SGBailey 22:38, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
It's an advisory speed limit in a semi-pedestrianized area, see page 32 of this document Foxhill 23:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Many thanks. Advisory speed limit now has an article. Laïka 01:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
You see that style of sign in the grounds of hospitals, parks, places like that where you can drive - but you aren't on a regular public road. Generally, they are only used for very slow speeds where the limit is (presumably) not enforcable by the regular speeding laws. SteveBaker 02:31, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Whereas in North America, "not a public road" places generally use standard road signs whether enforceable or not, and advisory speed signs are routinely used on public roads for curves and ramps that are not safe at the normal speed limit. (They're black on yellow instead of black on white, and either placed below the yellow-diamond curve sign or marked with words like RAMP SPEED. Other variations are used for particularly dangerous curves.) --Anonymous, 0350 km/h, I mean 03:50 UTC, October 28, 2007.
On the North America bit, it may be of interest to note that while the black-on-yellow signs are advisory, the black-on-orange ones (such as those in construction zones) are mandatory and enforceable by speeding ticket. — Lomn 15:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Australian speed limit signs match those described by Lomn. Yellow and black ones are advisory, for areas such as tight corners, hazardous roads (such as dirt or gravel) and high-grade slopes. They are not legally enforceable, but will cause a headache on insurance claims when not followed. Steewi 03:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

You see them sometimes on roads that are tight, but would otherwise have a fairly quick speed limit on them. Like for instance slip roads onto dual-carriageways or motorways. As has already been established, it's an advisory or recommended speed limit that doesn't hold any legal risks if you disobey it (provided you do stick to the proper limit of that road). Unless of course, you end up in a hedge because the turn is too tight.

[edit] Safe to clean glass with metal?

Is it safe to clean glass kitchenware with a stainless steel metal scrubbing mesh? Will the metal mesh scratch or damage the glassware? Thanks. Acceptable 21:10, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

My box of Pyrex (good job I hardly ever throw boxes away!) says on the back: "Do not use: abrasives, scourers". This site also recommends against it, and the Pyrex website says "If scouring is necessary, use only plastic or nylon cleaning pads with nonabrasive cleansers". As pretty much all kitchen glassware is made of the same stuff as Pyrex (borosilicate glass), I'd imagine that it could damage any kitchen glassware. Laïka 23:00, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Steel and glass are of similar hardness. I found stuff online that puts them both in about the middle of the Mohs scale. Of course, steel can be very hard, too. I would expect stainless steel to scratch glass (and make a horrible noise doing it). --Milkbreath 01:23, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I've cleaned off extremely encrusted food on glass baking dishes using metal scrubbing mesh. Rather than press down at full force I used a moderate force, circular motion, and high number of repetitions, and lots of soaking in soap and water to remove the encrusted food. I wasn't worried much about scuffing the dish up a little, which wasn't noticeable among the regular scraping the dish picks up from use. I would use the mesh as a last resort though. If you are worried about creating grooves where bacteria could potentially proliferate use a lower force and rub in different directions (think like sanding). If something is really stuck on there good perhaps soaking in an acid like vinegar or lemon juice might help? 71.226.56.79 05:22, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The clocks go back tonight.. what about Big Ben?

What happens to Big Ben to account for the changing of the clocks? 82.12.214.93 22:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

There's a guy in the tower who winds the clock forwards/backwards at 2:00 - the lights go off for a few seconds while the clock is turned back.[3] Big Ben still requires a lot of manual maintenance: largely for traditional reasons, instead of being computerised. For example, the speed of Big Ben is controlled by placing pre-decimal penny coins on the counterweights. The man currently in charge of the clock is Ian Wentworth. Most other public clocks now have built in electronic systems which change the time automatically (of course, it's a little embarrassing if you then forget to program the correct date into your clocks...[4]). Laïka 22:31, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Of course, to be precise, Big Ben is the main bell, not the clock. AndrewWTaylor 23:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I wonder if that distinction is becoming/has become obsolete (apart from quiz questions etc). True, Big Ben was a name originally applied only to the bell; but I would have thought it's become associated in the minds of the public with the clock and, indeed, with the entire structure. -- JackofOz 23:58, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes - but Andrew is correct - and just bcause others don't know about Big Ben (The Great Bell) is no excuse for it becoming obsolete - shall we forget the Holocaust for the same reason per se?? I don't think so. So, the clock itself may not have a name, but the tower it resides in is called The Clock Tower, often mistakenly called St. Stephen's Tower. 81.145.242.133 11:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I did acknowledge Andrew was correct. However, names do regularly become attached to things via popular usage. Once that process happens - whether one likes it or agrees with it or not - there's no going back, really. It's not a question of excuses. When most people say "Big Ben", the fact is they're referring not to the bell but to the whole edifice - probably mainly because they see it from ground level or in a photo, and the actual bell isn't visible, but they know it's inside (or maybe not). I don't defend that, but neither do I condemn it. It's just a fact of life. I suppose it's a bit like the egg/eggshell thing - we refer to the runny contents as "egg" and we also refer to the whole thing including the shell as "egg". (Bit of an odd analogy, I guess. I'm just trying to keep pace with yours about the Holocaust.) :) -- JackofOz 11:47, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
OK. Let's agree to differ - and get back to basics - and call the whole edifice The Palace of Westminster, comprising The Houses of Parliament, themeselves comprising The House of Lords and The House of Commons, together with Parliament Hall et al, when viewed from whatever angle; the clock tower The Clock Tower; the clock The Clock; and the bell The Great Bell, (or Big Tom in past/common romantic parlance); all commonly, mistakenly, and inclusively referred to as Big Ben. And let's call the Holocaust a big Jewish Lie.81.145.242.133 12:01, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
The clocks do not go back today, but next weekend. Dude, don't scare me like that. I thought I was late for church when I read this. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 12:03, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
The clocks did in fact go back at two this morning. Are you perhaps in a different country from Big Ben? Algebraist 12:12, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Daylight_saving_time_around_the_world#In_2007--VectorPotentialTalk 12:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
You know, I double-checked by looking out of the window, and noticed that I am in a different country than Big Ben. Sorry for the error. Enjoy your clock-changing, English people! -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 12:21, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers! And let's not be pedantic, as a Londoner I know Big Ben is the bell but our fondness for giving (nearly) every building in the city and unofficial name just gets the better of us. =P 82.12.214.93 20:21, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CONVECTION OVEN RECIPE CONVERSION GUIDELINES FOR BAKING CAKES, PIES AND COOKING OTHER FOODS.

What are the CONVECTION OVEN BAKING TIMES for cakes, pies and other foods to use in conversion for recipes (and food packages) that only give baking times for conventional ovens? George 643 22:28, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Putting your search string into google gives over 1,000,000 hits. -- Flyguy649 talk 23:11, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't expect there to be a straight conversion factor. For some recipes, only the time may change, for others just the temp, for others both, and some recipes may simply not work in a convection oven (very sensitive recipes that can "fall", for example). StuRat 00:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Writing in ALL CAPS is considered rude because it constitutes shouting (drawing undue attention). I make it a point not to read questions in all caps. DirkvdM 12:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)