Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007 August 1

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[edit] August 1

[edit] Water bottles

Quick question: when I'm buying bottled water, and open the cap for the first time, there's this funny smell that comes out. What is it? Chlorine? Ozone? And subquestion: what's the best way to "get rid" of the smell so you can drink water like it's, you know, unsmelly water. Pandacomics 00:37, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

While we're on the subject, anyone care to explain why my new CD-Rs all smell like syrupy pancakes? I'm assuming it's due to the adhesive they use to glue the label on, but still --Longing.... 01:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually it is a little known fact that most CD-Rs are made in pancake factories, using similar equipment. I think it has to do with the similar shapes. --24.147.86.187 02:00, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Ah, I love the smell of CD-Rs in the morning! Smells like... piracy.
Now, as for the answer, the smell could be outgassing of the bottle's plastic. But I think you're probably more correct about it being ozone. Ozone is used in water purification -- especially bottled water -- because it does dissipate better than chlorine. Ozone has a distinctive smell -- like a copier machine, lightning, or that 'static electricity smell'.
You are familiar with the smell of lightning? 199.172.246.196 18:46, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Still, I'd be somewhat suprised if that was indeed what you were smelling. I was under the impression that ozone dissipates pretty quickly... --Mdwyer 19:14, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Have you tried buying different brands of water? — The Storm Surfer 13:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hardware Store

What is the name if that hardware store, which begins with McMa..., that sells lots of heavy duty parts? They have a wikipedia article I know I've seen, and it was once said that you could build SpaceShipOne out of only parts from this hardware store and a flight company. Thanks 131.215.240.27 02:14, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Grainger? Rmhermen 02:23, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

No, but on the Grainger page I found the link - it's McMaster-Carr. Thanks. 131.215.240.27 02:24, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] question

How can I remove my username from wikipedia?

What do you mean by omit? Like remove all traces of your IP address' contributions? Information being inputted into Wikipedia by IPs is kept in the system for a very, very long time. Pandacomics 03:01, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
And what would your username be? Pandacomics 03:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, the simplest answer is "You can't". This is because it's important that we can trace every edit back to the person who made it...perhaps for legal reasons - but mainly because that's how the software is designed to work. But we do have The Right To Vanish - but it boils down to having a Wikipedia Bureaucrat (that's a person one higher up the 'seniority' scale from an admin) change your username to something else...probably a nonsense string. But as the article notes, this won't protect you from a serious effort to track you down. Unless you are in really deep doo-doo, your best bet is to simply forget your password! SteveBaker 04:23, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes, consider a username change. Rfwoolf 13:14, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lawn care

These are probably stupid questions that I hope people can supply the answers to:

- How much watering does a lawn need? How long should I set out a sprinkler for?

This depends on the amount of rain and the temperature. It is better to water deeply once or twice a week rather than a little bit every day. This encourages roots to grow deeper. I water when the grass looks dry. --Czmtzc 14:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

- I found some old bags of grass seed. Unfortunately they are probably many years old. Are they like indestructible bacteria spores just waiting to be revived, or are they goners?

If the seed was stored in a cool dry place they may still be viable. It can't hurt to try and plant them. If they are alive, you get grass, if they are dead no harm done. If you were to plant the old seed this week, and nothing came up in the next week or two you would still have time to go get new seed to try agin before winter comes. --Czmtzc 14:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

- It's currently the height of summer, and I am in the "Cold Winter Humid Zone" (see Image:LawnGrassMap.jpg). Is this a bad time to put seed down? I'd like to start growing grass in an area that's currently just dirt, but I'd also like to make the existing lawn thicker. Is spreading seed on an existing lawn doable or a bad idea?

It is generally best to plant in the spring or early fall, in order to avoid dry summer heat or winter freezes before the seedlings have a chance to get established. Here in Texas, "Height of Summer" usually means temperatures in the 100s - 110s and our typical summer drought. If Height of summer for your area means temperatures in the 80s - 90s with occasional rain, then it would be a good time to plant before it gets too cold. If you plant on bare dirt, it is best to loosen the dirt, and lightly rake the seed into the dirt to barely cover it. Gently water (to avoid washing the dirt and seeds away), and once the seeds sprout, keep them well watered until they have a chance to become established. This contradicts my watering advice above, because a seedling will die if it dries out, while a mature plant will just become dormant. Over seeding an existing lawn is just fine, and you only have to use 1/4 - 1/2 the amount of seed that you would use for a similar amount of bare dirt. --Czmtzc 14:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for all the help! It is indeed 80s and 90s here (maybe mid-90s today). If it were 110, I'd say screw the lawn; I'm not going out! TresÁrboles 16:23, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for being such a lawn noob!

TresÁrboles 03:28, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

http://www.gardenadvice.co.uk/howto/lawns/index.html
Depends what you mean by "need". Mostly you can let your lawn dry out and go brown over the hot/dry season and it will come back, but if you want to keep it green you may need to put like an inch of water a week on it. That's actually a lot of watering. (Note, this all varies a lot with your climate and grass type). On the other hand, with the climate of the last few years, a lot of people who have been in the habit of not watering at all in the dry season, like me, for instance, are finding big chunks of the lawn that are permanently dead now. So maybe an inch of water a month at a minimum?
Depends on how the seed was stored. I've had good luck with old grass seed, without taking an particular precautions about storing it. You can try out a small sample in advance by sandwiching a few seeds between paper towels and keeping it wet, checking after a few days to see if you've got sprouting. That way if they are dead you won't waste time trying to get them to grow on your lawn.
Wait a month or so to seed; in your zone fall is really the best time to seed, let it get established before winter and beef up again in spring so it will be healthy enough when the dry season hits. Keep the seeded area pretty constantly moist at first until they've got some roots going.
"overseeding" an existing lawn is a common practice. When you do this, however, note that maybe 10% of the seeds sprout, so don't go too thin. Gzuckier 14:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! I'm not sure how much is an inch of water is though... I hope I won't have to put a measuring cup outside to find out. Good idea about trying out the seed. TresÁrboles 16:23, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Gold Coin Donation"

In Australia (at least), the term "gold coin donation" is an often-used phrase, used for things like informal charity events, to mean that the cost of something (such as entry to something) is a 'gold' coin donation - which can be either a donation of a one or two dollar coin (they are the two highest denomination coins and are the only two coins coloured gold in Australian currency, the smaller denominations all being a silver colour). My question is - is this, or a similar phrase, used in other countries?

I've never heard of this in the states, but then I don't do much with events or charity. --Longing.... 11:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm not familiar with the phrase in the UK. But I did come across the phrase "gold coin" denoting the UK £1 and £2 coins, as opposed to "silver" and "copper" coins, in something I read in the last couple of days, fwiw. --Tagishsimon (talk)
I've also never heard this used in the US; probably because $1 coins (the largest denomination) are fairly uncommon in circulation. In addition, they have been redesigned many times, with only a few versions actually gold-toned.

in the UK the phrase "silver collection" was routinely used while silver (coloured) coins had far more value than they do today.86.211.109.35 15:14, 1 August 2007 (UTC)petitmichel

Across the ditch in Noo Zealand, this phrase is widely used. Aaadddaaammm 02:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Never heard it in Canada, where the gold-colored $1 coin has been in use for 20 years. I would take "gold coin" to mean a coin made of actual gold. --Anonymous, August 2, 2007, 05:07 (UTC).
In Scotland a 'Silver Collection' is usually taken at charity events as an entrance fee. In Golspie, as of now, an Art exhibition has a bowl labled 'Silver Collection' by the entrance and visitors throw in their 'silver' fifty pence pieces even five pound notes without being asked. Good exhibition too, I sold three pictures!--88.111.112.85 06:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Human readable" GFDL?

Is there a version of the GFDL that's simple enough for 'average people' to read, in the same way that CC handles it? --Longing.... 11:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe this: Wikipedia:Simple English GFDL will help. Or not. It is difficult to reduce legal complexity and retain the meaning... --Tagishsimon (talk)
It's not that hard; CC is just as legally complex but boils down to a few sentences for the "average person."--24.147.86.187 12:05, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Also, the simple English GFDL page is awful. Aside from confusing "simple" with "mentally nonfunctioning" to the point of being misleading. --24.147.86.187 12:07, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Here's how I would sum it up (IANAL):
If something is licensed as GFDL, you are free to:
1. reproduce/distribute the work
2. modify the work
...provided that:
1. you license the resulting work as GFDL as well
2. you give proper credit to the previous authors of the work
3. you indicate where you changed the work, if you did, and if you changed the work, you must change the title in some way so that people won't get it confused with the original
4. you include a complete copy of the GFDL each copy of the work (!)
5. if the work contains something labeled as an "invariant section," you may not remove this from the work when you modify or reproduce it
You may also include the works in a collection of other works with difference licenses, where it is clear where one work ends and another begins, so long as you indicate that that particular work is licensed as GFDL, and include a copy of the GFDL somewhere in the overall collection of works.
To me that is the basics of it. Frankly I think the GFDL is one basically good idea burdened by a lot of bad requirements (invariant sections, etc.); it is fine for software manuals but it is not ideal for much else. I prefer the CC licenses, which have more simplicity to them and don't' require that you distribute an entire copy of the license with each instance of use. But that's just me, and it's not exactly a new criticism. I'd like to hope that if CC licenses had existed when they made Wikipedia, they would have gone with one of those instead, but alas. --24.147.86.187 12:19, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I tried to edit simple. for awhile, but their writing assumes their readerbase is five, not new to english. The way some of their articles are written is nearly insulting. Anyway, you're my new favorite IP, 24. --Longing.... 12:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spitzer bullets

Where do spitzer bullets get manufactured, predominantly? I can't seem to find this.

Spitzer (bullet) says that this is a German name for a tapered, aerodynamic bullet design rather that a make or specific type of bullet. Wouldn't most ammuntion producers use this design of bullet? Lanfear's Bane

[edit] assignment on human resource management query

i am doing my assignment on human resource management.can u pls guide me by giving me the sites i should go to?

Did you try a search? [1] 199.172.246.196 16:22, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] infra red beams and jets

If you were to take a photograph of a fighter plane in flight, using something like an autofocus SLR camera - which uses infra red for focusing - would the plane's on-board safety systems (anti-missile etc) be activated?

thanks 83.104.131.135 14:23, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Probably not. In general infrared missles target the natural heat generated by the plane's jet engines. Infrared tageting lazers are generally used against static or slow moving targets such as buildings or tanks. --Czmtzc 14:51, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

In Scotland a couiple of years ago a police radar speed scanner alerted an RAF fighter's auto system, and scared the heck out of the coppers!86.211.109.35 15:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)Dt

Autofocus on SLRs doesn't use infra-red to focus though... --antilivedT | C | G 04:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help With Approximate Market Value of Copiers

Hi, I'm doing reserach for my company, we have a Konica 7022, and a Konica 7020 that we need to get rid off. I've look for days, but can't get any real Market value on these machines. The best I've come up with is anywhere from $250-3,000 from Ebay, Amazon, and used copier companies. Thank you in advance. Zidel333 15:04, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Be careful who you sell them to as the toner drums may be carrying commercially sensitive information - it's not all about the money!!!!!!!!!

[edit] Countries that advertise how many people they kill on their roads?

I was driving my family South from Scotland into Northumberland UK and noticed that every few miles, large notice boards at the side of the road had messages that read something like, "189 Fatalities in the last 3 years". The roads in question were notoriously narrow contraflow and meandering despite being the main East Coast Route from Scotland into Northern England. In fact, we passed an accident involving an articulated lorry and a tractor that held up traffic in each direction for around 2 hours. When we commented on this strange state of affairs at our Newcastle destination we were told that the roads and subsequent fatalities have "always been that way - the Government believes that by improving the roads, the fatalities would actually increase". Does anyone here know whether they were joking with me, or is there any validity to that latter argument? And do other countries actually Boast about how many people are killed on their inadequate roads? 81.145.240.139 15:54, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it is a boast - just a warning like the pictures on some place's cigarette packs. I used to swim at a beach here in the U.S. which posted the number of drownings right under the "No lifeguard on Duty" sign but I haven't seen any roads marked that way. We do have the white memorial crosses that families and others frequently put up at the sites of crashes which serve to the same effect. Rmhermen 15:59, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, it is not a boast - that would be a silly interpretation. The notices are warnings which seek to convince you that if you overtake in a stupid place, you'll end up like the artic and tractor at Fenwick a couple of days ago - somewhat mangled. The statement that "the Government believes that by improving the roads, the fatalities would actually increase" is bogus. Local government in the form of Northumberland County Council and the various district authorities - Alnwick, Berwick - have campaigned for a duel carriageway for years. The Highways Agency (national government) has slowly been working on upgrade schemes. The only reason the road has not yet been duelled, AFAIK, is cost and relative prioritisation. Some further details from a search such as this --Tagishsimon (talk)
Thanks to both responses so far - I particularly like the PUN posed by Tagishsimon wherein he/she talks about duel carriageway - I couldn't have put it better myself. But thanks also for the link that told me of recent discussions (January 2004) about upgrading that particular road to dual carriageway standards. Clearly, the government do not regard the slaughter of 189 people in 3 years as meriting an upgrade at this time. Also, we should remember that for everyone who overtakes dangerously, there is usually an innocent vehicle coming the other way. Thanks though.
Unfortunately government needs to analyse the cost and benefit compared to other viable uses of its limited resours. It sounds awful to organise such life/death based matters on this but we must accept that the government does have a limited financial budget (limited to what the voting public will accept in taxation). It is not that they don't regard the casualties as serious, but there are many worthy causes that could just as easily show shocking statistics as to why they need the money to do X or Y. The tough part of government is working to make these decisions and the co-ordination/work behind the secenes. Unfortunately we tend, in society, to give politicians a very rough ride for what is ultimately a somewhat thankless task and which for the same responsibility in private-enterprise they would often be able to earn vastly more money. The signs act as a cheap but mildly effective reminder to drivers of the dangers of the road. They say prevention is better than the cure, it's often cheaper too - the signs are a small step to try prevent accidents. ny156uk 17:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
The signs can be counter-productive. I remember that ten or fifteen years ago there used to be many more "accident blackspot" signs in the UK. Many of these were removed; according to reports at the time, because some road users were determined to get a thrill by taking risks in these dangerous areas. Warofdreams talk 17:54, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I once heard of a road that was made safer because there were so many accidents, but after the improvement there was no decrease in fatalities because the improvement was so visible that people thought "Ah it's safe now" and started driving less cautiously. As a reverse example, just south of Utrecht in the Netherlands there is a highway bridge (highway meaning 100 km/h) that is so narrow that cars from opposite directions pass each other at a distance of just about half a metre. It is so obviously dangerous that everyone pays extra attention. I have never heard of an accident on that bridge. DirkvdM 06:48, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
The A43 in Northamptonshire has signs on the section between Kettering and Northampton which state "32 casualties in 3 years". I believe similar signs are also in use on the A14. -=# Amos E Wolfe talk #=- 16:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

In the UK county of Devon the A377, a narrow and winding cross-country road from Barnstaple to Exeter has signs deliberately aimed at the Motorcyclists who love its twistiness. They use a symbol of a biker with the caption 4 dead in 3 years, recently altered to 5 dead.

For some years the A537 Buxton to Macclesfield road was trumpeted as Englands most dangerous road according to a European measuring standard. Bike magazines wrote about it in a way that encouraged riders unfamiliar with its hazards to take risks beyond their skills. It is twisty with over 80 bends in about 9 miles. But it is well engineered with good surfaces and open views wherever possible. The majority of collisions (they don't call them accidents any more) were single vehicles losing control due to excess speed. I rode over it over 500 times in the 3 years I lived nearby but never saw a sign giving casualty numbers.

In Costa Rica, they paint a heart with a halo on the road where a fatal accident occurs. I'm not sure if it's done by the government or by insurance companies or what. kmccoy (talk) 01:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] September 11th Holiday?

Has anyone suggested or done anything about making September 11th a holiday? It would seem a good idea to remember the people who lost their lives, the heroes, and to cherish our families and friends. Is there a way to go about starting a national petition to do this? How would I go about starting that?

Well this (http://www.gopetition.co.uk/petitions/911-petition-for-national-holiday.html) is a petition for it. I'm not sure it is a good idea myself, there are amble national holidays already and more wouldn't (I think) be beneficial. Perhaps if you campaigned for it to replace an existing national holiday? ny156uk 18:44, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Holidays are generally celebration days. Can you imagine everyone going to a beach or amusement park on a day of mourning? I guess a parallel in the UK is Remembrance Day. This is taken very seriously without it being a national holiday. See also Patriot Day.--Shantavira|feed me 19:06, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


Sure we could just replace Labor day ( U.S. first Monday of Sept.) and use the September 11 weekend instead for our end of summer holiday, and commemorate the day with BBQ cookouts, and the first week of Football! ---Czmtzc 19:08, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

The eighth of March, celebrated in Europe as the Day of the Woman or something like that, commemorates the fire at the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory. Very few seem to remember the actual origins. It's a little disturbing if you let yourself think about it. --Trovatore 19:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

About five times the amount of people that died on 9/11 die every year from car crashes. Are we going to have an entire business week off every year to mourn them? 'Cause that would be pretty sweet. We can't spend our time mourning everyone that dies or every horrible thing that's ever happened. --Longing.... 19:12, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I think your missing the point. It is not a celebration day...its like memorial day or veterans day where we commeerate the dead....

Really, how much memorializing do we, as U.S. citizens, do on Memorial Day? Not really that much at all. Most people look at it as a reason to have a three day weekend and a cookout. Dismas|(talk) 21:39, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Like everything else in the America, holidays just become new opportunities for kitsch and commercialization. There's an inevitable tastelessness that comes with a free market, but it beats mandated aesthetics. --24.147.86.187 23:17, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

See Patriot Day. Pilotguy 21:57, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

As Pilotguy points out there is Patriot Day now. However, my gut feeling is that not many people appreciate a federal holiday on September 11th. America morns the deaths of those people, but many people feel that a holiday will become yet one more political use the attacks. This is covered somewhat in the Controversy section of the article. --S.dedalus 00:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help obtaining a book

I've been trying to find more information to fill in the gaps in the history of Smederevo fortress, but have been hitting mostly dead ends. I've found a book here that looks like it may help, but I don't have access to the site. I was wondering if anyone around here did, and could perhaps email me a copy, or is there a better place to ask? Also, these other ones look like they might be helpful too, but I don't know if there's a handier online source for them, I couldn't find one. Anyone have access to the books themselves? -Bbik★ 18:46, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

There's a Google Books version of "Mehmed the Conquerer and his Time" here.--CodellTalk 22:26, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Different book, actually, and already found/am using what I can of that one, but thanks. -Bbik★ 02:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Leave a message on my talk page and I'll help you get a copy of the JSTOR article. Assuming you are just going to use it to help buffer out the Wikipedia page I think that's reasonably within the bounds of fair use (and anyway there isn't really any easy way for an individual to get access to JSTOR without going through some larger institution; JSTOR isn't going to lose any money if this one article is forwarded). --24.147.86.187 22:36, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Done, thanks in advance -Bbik★ 02:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is the difference between commercial and residential real estate?

What is the difference between commercial and restidential real estate?

The article on Residential property redirects to House. See also Commercial property, although that article needs considerable work. Corvus cornix 21:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
You might also find Zoning to be a useful read. --Mdwyer 21:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
For a short and simple answer, commercial real estate is real estate to do with businesses, such as shops, offices, etc, residential real estate is that to do with housing, such as houses, units, flats, etc. --jjron 09:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC)