Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 November 9

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[edit] November 9

[edit] Scott O'Grady

Hello

My name is Miss Dana Glass and I would love to know of where I may get in contact with Scott O'Grady. Since you are the best site to do this it would be great if I could finally find him. I would like to know of his personal life as well, I know that he was just getting finshed in school in Dallas TX, but, that is all I know. So, would you be so kind to help me out please???

I got to meet him about 10 years ago, in those few minutes ususally I am shy when it comes to men but, talking to him I wasn't shy.I would just like to know that he is doing alright for himself.My e-mail address is <removed>. This is very impotant to me.


                                Thank you very much 
                                Miss Dana Glass
Do you mean this Scott O'Grady? If so you could try and write to him throught Random House. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 01:39, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Election music

Does anyone know anything about the song that plays on all the networks every (US) election? I think I saw something about it two years ago, but can't find anything on yahoo/wikipedia right now. Does it have a title, who composed it, and when? And how did it get chosen for this position? -Goldom ‽‽‽ ⁂ 01:31, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Snoose

When was this term first used for smokeless tobacco? I can not find it on Wikapedia and the word "snoose" isn't in the dictionaries at my local library. Is it snuff or loose leaf tobacco? The word "snoose" was used in an Alaskan fisheries magazine in 1945 so it has been around in print at least that long. None of the cans of smokeless tobacco at a store uses the word "snoose." Pat Roppel

According to Dictionary.com, it started around 1910-1915, from the Swedish "snusa". --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 02:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Probably not derived from the verb form "snusa", but directly from the noun snus(tobak). Also, I think it could possibly be related to snooze, or other Germanic nose-related words starting with sn-. 惑乱 分からん 10:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hard Song

What would be an example of a piano song that one would play for a very high level international examination or recital or performance; or a very difficult piece? And as well, what would be an example of a flute song that one would play for a very high level international examination or recital or performance; or a very difficult piece? Jamesino 02:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Thousands of examples for the piano question. My extremely subjective list starts with Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit, Debussy's Etudes, Liszt's Sonata in B minor, Beethoven's Waldstein Sonata, Balakirev's Islamey, Stravinsky's Three Pieces from Petrushka, Chopin's Funeral March Sonata, almost anything by Rachmaninov, Schumann, Bartok, Brahms, Prokofiev, Scriabin ..... far too many to go on. JackofOz 02:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
There are probably many valid examples for the flute question too. Jacques Ibert's Flute Concerto is considered to be one of the pièces de résistance. Sigfrid Karg-Elert's 30 Caprices for flute are also very difficult to perform. ---Sluzzelin 03:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
You might also check out recordings by flautist Jean-Pierre Rampal. Many 20th century composers wrote music for him specifically. The range of his artistic and technical resources allowed them to compose with comparatively few restrictions dictated by the instrument. ---Sluzzelin 04:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
The flight of the bumble bee might be quite challenging--Light current 12:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Beethovens Moonlight Sonata, third movement. See here Philc TECI 18:54, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

piano: i wrote something called kosmikophobia. if you want a copy of it, i'll send you one. just let me know. it's about as difficult as a debussy etude or so. flute: jolivet's chant de linos or berio's sequenza I. shulamit ran wrote something called 'east wind'. it's great. you should play that, too.--Coolsnak3 22:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if this is relevant for your purpose, but pieces can be difficult for very different reasons. 'Flight of the bumblebee' might be very fast, but if the fingering isn't too complicated that is 'just' a matter of practising. Stuff by Rachmaninov tends to be very slow (especially when played by Sviatoslav Richter), but very difficult in terms of getting the 'mood' right, ie the dynamics (loud/soft) and very precise timing that does not follow the beat precisely (I mean in a not straightforward beat). The fast pieces in 'flight of the bumblebee' can (should) be played at the same volume with a constant timing between notes, which makes it ultimately much simpler to play than, say, Rachmaninov's third pianoconcert. DirkvdM 07:40, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Advice Sought

Do any of you guys (or girls) have any tips on how to get my reluctant girlfriend to have anal sex with me? Shes 17, almost 18. Any advice would be appreciated as I really want to try it myself. Hizzizzle 04:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

See lubricant. --Cody.Pope 04:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Although you'd be better served at Personal lubricant, rather than considering graphite powder, or boron nitride. --ByeByeBaby 07:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Beyond the wise advice given above, You're going to have to have an honest discussion with her about why you'd like to try this, and address her concerns about it. Hypothetically, she might be worried about it being painful, or she might be worried about it it being icky. Or she just might not want to have things shoved up her backside. Look, it might just turn out that she doesn't want to go there, at least not with you and not right now. And that's something you're going to have to accept if you want to maintain your relationship. I'm sure there are certain sexual practices you wouldn't indulge in even if she asked you to - though I wouldn't pretend to know what your personal limits might be. But, to give some hypotheticals, would you be OK with her using a dildo on you? Or maybe she'd like to have a threesome with you, her, and your best (male) friend? Or maybe she'd like to indulge in some BDSM using a cattle prod on certain sensitive parts of your anatomy? At some point, you'd draw the line, right - despite there being people who indulge in these and a massive variety of other activities to get their jollies. So why should she be any different?
In any case, have an honest talk with her. Whatever the outcome of your specific wish here, it's almost certain to result in a more enjoyable sex life for both of you. --Robert Merkel 05:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd go with the advice above. Be aware that anal sex is not only disgusting but your at risk of catching HIV and eventually AIDS if the sex is unprotected. Sex is not recommended unless it is safe--PrestonH 06:00, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Anal sex is only disgusting if you're doing it right. --Richardrj talk email 08:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Disgust is an attitude of mind and is subjective. What I find disgusting, you may think is ok. Personal opinions like this should not be expressed in replies. Please Stick to the facts.--Light current 17:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Nice Woody Allen pastiche... ;) 惑乱 分からん 11:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Dont be silly, you cant have safe sex all your life, where do you think babys come from, if you know someone, and your both clean, shag them as much as you (and they) want however you want. Philc TECI 18:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't think safe and anal sex necessarily contradicts each other. Just practice it with condom sense and common sense. 惑乱 分からん 19:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree. And if you do get into it, the most important thing is what Cody.pope said - lubricant, lots and lots of it. Oh, and go S-L-O-W-L-Y, particularly at the start. JackofOz 03:27, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Start by combining aggressive anilingus with cunnilingus and then a gentle fingering combined with the anilingus. If she enjoys the way that feels, you can move on to two fingers and then eventually penile penetration. Telling her how much you love her over and over again will help, too. -THB 03:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and I think talking about it too much will be unhelpful--you won't change her mind. Better to have her decide she likes it and wants it on her own. -THB 03:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Just for the record I would let her practice any of the above suggestions to me, including the BDSM, save for the cattle prod. Hizzizzle 03:14, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Just a point: if she's ever had a baby, been overweight, or had a job where she sat for a long period of time, she may have internal hemorrhoids. Anal sex and hemorrhoids DON'T GET ALONG. You don't want your girlfriend to equate your lovemaking with bleeding agony. --Charlene 13:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Metallurgy

How to pronoune " gangue"? Adda

The Random House Unabridged Dictionary says it's the same as "gang". You can consult several online dictionaries at http://www.onelook.com if you want to see if there is any disagreement. --Anonymous, 08:48 UTC, Nov. 9.

[edit] user count

I got a question. Even though there are millions of user accounts on Wikipedia, some of them are sockpuppets or vandals, some of them don't edit at all, and some of them made a few edits before they depart. Can someone tell me how many active users (like 10 or more edits a month) are there in the English Wikipedia?--PrestonH 05:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

In the Wikipedia article it states "During December 2005, Wikipedia had about 27,000 users who made at least five edits that month;" Unfortunately, the stats reference site it refers to is not accessable, but that section should give you a good idea how many active users there is. —Mitaphane talk 09:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
The number of editors grows by about 13% per month[1], so the present number of active editors may be 4 times at large. I don't know of an analysis of the distribution of editor activity, but my guess is that of these 27,000 users only maybe 10,000 had 10 edits or more in December 2005. My best guess for today would be 40,000.  --LambiamTalk 11:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I think I asked this question before and the answer was about 30000.--Light current 12:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Two months ago you answered this question with: "About 38000 in June." The criterium for being "active" in the question was at least 20 non-vandalism, non-user-page edits. With a 13% per month grow, that would make this now about 70,000.  --LambiamTalk 12:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
There you go! Answering, asking: they seem to merge! I seem to remember now I looked it up I believe on tha stats page 8-)--Light current 16:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
13% growth per month means a doubling roughly every half year. There are about 100,000 times as many people on Earth as editors. 217 is about 125,000, so in 8.5 years there will be more Wikipedia editors than people. :) Of course the curve will flatten, also because by then not quite everyone will have access to the Internet yet. So if in 8 years time everyone who does have access is a Wikipedia editor, does that then mean that by then Wikipedia will have taken over the Internet? If everyone uses and participates in Wikipedia, then why would they bother putting new info elsewhere? Of course this excludes stuf like email and various downloads (music, programs), but will all written info on the Internet be on Wikipedia within 10 years? DirkvdM 08:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Of course there'll be things other than Wikipedia --WikiSlasher 11:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Why? Why would people (we) put new information elsewhere if it is more accessible (because more organised) here? Unless we decide to block certain types of info, but why would we do that? At the moment that may be the case, but that is a leftover from the pure encyclopedia notion. Once that bit is 'done', why not start adding other info? Like adding the program of a theatre in the article of that theatre. Or a list of the products of a company in their article, plus articles on the product, with a subpage showing how people rate that product. Manufacturers' websites (and their ads) suck, so there is a real need for a decent alternative. That would also be the liberation the free market system needs so much. We have the technology. It will happen. So why not here, where all the info comes together in an orederly fashion, something the Internet was lacking. DirkvdM 06:11, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buying TVs in Australia.

I'm looking to buy a new TV in Australia. Where is the nicest, cheapest place I could look? I'm very hard on for cash. I'm looking for one thin-profile TV, 96cm or greater with at least 480p, and one 70cm or greater with 720p. The latter would be preferable in 4:3 ratio. Any suggestions? I'd greatly appreciate it.

It depends on what state you're in. If you're really short on cash, have you considered buying a used TV? For istance, have you had a look on Ebay, the trading post (remember to tell them they're dreamin'), or in Cash Converters (the second hand dealers/pawn shop chain?) Beyond that, some people also sell new stuff on Ebay, and then there's the outer suburban discount barns. --203.214.55.189 12:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Crime Converters? [ælfəks] 16:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heathrow help needed - British users alert!

I've got to get to Heathrow for a flight to America at 8:30ish (GMT) in the morning in a couple of weeks.

How many hours before would I ideally have to be there for starters, i'm guessing at about 4:30am or 5? More importantly, does anyone know an affordable way for me to get there from Kent as I don't drive.

I'm thinking the best way will be last train to London and bus or coach? If anyone knows any good cheapish car services or owt that'd be great though. Thanks.

Harwoof 08:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I would have thought 5am is about right. As for getting there, if I was in your shoes I'd stay in a hotel near the airport the night before rather than attempt to get there from Kent the same day. Whereabouts in Kent do you live? You might find National Express run coaches to Heathrow from there, rather than having to go via the smoke. --Richardrj talk email 08:49, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Harwoof - as above, where exactly in Kent are you starting from? I'll try to work something out later today for you. (Friends and work colleagues have been asking me to plan their journeys for years, as I am the token transport enthusiast. :) ) Hassocks5489 09:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the responses - I'm from Ashford, Kent. Harwoof 09:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
  • For my first flight from Amsterdam to the US I was told to be there 3 hours in advance, but it doesn't hurt to build in some extra time to make sure you make it in time. - Mgm|(talk) 09:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi again; I've had a look at various options, and it seems harder than I expected. The Last Train To London (please excuse Electric Light Orchestra reference) is surprisingly early at 22:34; this arrives at London Charing Cross at 23:57. Then you would need to take the London Underground Northern Line one stop north to Leicester Square, and change to the westbound Piccadilly Line. This link [2] (EDIT: previous external link was invalid; this one links to the Journey Planner form itself, so the fields need to be populated - Hassocks5489) indicates that there are trains from Charing Cross to Leicester Square at 00:12 and 00:24, and connecting trains from Leicester Square to Heathrow Terminals 1/2/3 at 00:18 and 00:31 respectively, giving arrival times at Heathrow of 01:05 and 01:17 respectively. There's not too much hanging-around time once you get to Heathrow, and if your train from Ashford arrives late at Charing Cross there is still the option of the 00:24 departure by Underground.
I had a look at coaches, but there are only three departures per day from Ashford to London Victoria Coach Station - at 09:25, 14:35 and 16:20. Not too helpful.
Then I had a look at getting to Gatwick Airport by train, as there are coaches throughout the night to Heathrow, but there were no convenient late-evening departures by train, as I expected. In any case, at least one change of train is needed.
Finally, I had a look at the Heathrow Express and Heathrow Connect rail services from London Paddington, but these finish well before midnight.
You would need a Single from Ashford International to Underground Zone 6. As far as I can see, a Cheap Day Single fare is available @ £19.20. There is also a ticket called the "PriceBuster" which is valid for off-peak journeys from Ashford to Charing Cross; I *think* it costs £12.50, in which case buying this and then a London Underground Single ticket from Charing Cross to Heathrow (when you get to Charing Cross Underground) would be cheaper. It is advisable to check at the ticket office first.
Finally, I have based all of this on the Monday-Friday timetable. If you're going on a Saturday or Sunday night, things will be different - let me know.
Hope that all helps! Hassocks5489 12:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Just some other advice, Heathrow is a hellish airport. If there is a more overcrowded transport hub anywhere in the developed world, I've yet to find it. Remember to check which terminal you're leaving from, and get your stuff ready to go through the security checkpoints. --Robert Merkel 12:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you so much! Harwoof 14:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] texture modified food

HI, I am writing a dissertation proposal on hospital food and can malnutrition be prevented by food being made more palatable? I have used search engines with the keywords "palatable food" Palatable", t"exture modified food" "prevention of malnutrition in elderly". I have lots of information on malnutrition, the elderly, but am having a problem with the "food" Any help would be gratefully received. thanks

Kinda ironic. Try looking up stuff that tastes good. also, you could try to use the less scientific approach and just ask someone you know who is good at cooking about how to make food taste good without unhealthy stuff. Ilikefood 22:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Guess that rules out the MSG then. As for texture, apparently you can do amazing things with tofu. [ælfəks] 16:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia reference desk answers

There are countless completey illogical and obvious "funny" questions on this page. Many concern gulls, other bring up the topic of anal virginity and similar, at times "obscene" questions. My question is thus, is this a necessary relief from hard working to crank out the best answers to the best questions, or just plain old fun to the invited? 81.93.102.185 20:10, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I expect that there is a fair amount of trolling on this page, even some of the supposedly serious questions. But an ill-phrased or poorly spelled question might just as easily be serious. This can be discussed on the "discussion" page for Reference Desk.Edison 20:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
The answer to your question is "yes". -THB 04:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] cookie monster

is he benevolent?

It would seem so. He hasn't eaten any children yet, only cookies. – ClockworkSoul 17:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Ever seen that episode of family guy? :) --frothT C 18:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Recently, to help fight childhood obesity, the Cookie Monster has started eating healthy food. Somehow a Broccoli Monster just isn't the same, though. StuRat 02:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

If that isn't going to drive him to eating cookie-filled children I dont know what will. But not eating children doesn't make CM benevolent. His extensive charity work and wiki-vandal patrolling do though. At least until we discover his feet of clay. We're watching you CM. Robovski 04:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alanis Morissette

Hi: Is the song "What if God Was One of Us" really the title of the song? Which album was it originally on. Thank you, Judy Carmichael

I think the correct title is "One of Us", it's a song sung by Joan Osborne and composed by Eric Bazilian. 惑乱 分からん 11:26, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
It was a single from Joan Osborne's album Relish from 1995. See an album review and full track listing here: [3]. Hassocks5489 12:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ian

this is a riddle-what is the number between 21 and 50. what fruit did hawaiian women not eat? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.49.92.180 (talk • contribs)

This is an encyclopedia reference desk, so we are not very good at riddles. I suggest you try a specialist discussion group such as http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Quizzes-and-Puzzles/Riddles/ .--Shantavira 16:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How many Inc. companies and Ltd. companies are there in the world?

so how many are there?

Maybe someone will find the answer to this, but researching it would be difficult, since there is no international registry for corporations with limited liability. Corporations are registered instead by individual nations, or, within the United States at least, by (subnational) state. Presumably, the OP wants all limited-liability corporations, not just those with the initials "inc." or "ltd." Such corporations registered in Germany, for example, carry the initials "GmbH". If the user wanted only those with the initials "inc." or "ltd.", research would need to be done to determine in which nations those initials are used and the answer would need to be limited to those nations. Also, would the user want to exclude corporations (in the UK and Ireland) that carry the "PLC" label? Finally, new corporations are formed and old corporations liquidated on a regular, probably daily basis, so any count would have to be approximate. Many corporations are quite small. The number worldwide is probably at least in the tens of thousands, if not over 100,000. Marco polo 15:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Your estimate is far too low. In GB alone, there were at the end of October over 2.4 million registered companies[4], with 30,000 newly registered during the month[5]. -- AJR | Talk 15:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
You're right - there are almost 10,000 companies registered in the Northwest Territories of Canada alone. I would suspect the number worldwide would be close to a quarter of a billion. Major corporations may have 10,000 registrations each - hundreds of divisions, many of which would be registered in 200 countries, 50 US states, 13 Canadian provinces and territories, etc. --Charlene 13:18, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Number of Rooms in the Forbidden City in Beijing

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the number of rooms.

  • Some sources say that legend had it that the F.C. has 9999 rooms
  • some sources say that legend had it that the F.C. had 9999.5 rooms and the .5 room was a staircase
  • our article said that the F.C. was reputed to have 9999.5 rooms and the .5 room was a small room off the Imperial library
  • our article said that a survey by the palace museum found about 8600 rooms
  • our article now says that a survey shows that there are 2,172 remaining intact rooms.

Which if any of these are correct?--Filll 12:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

The definition of a room in the Forbidden City is actually referring to a traditional measure, a "bay", which is the space between four columns. The number of "rooms" is symbolically 9,999 because the Heavenly Palace is perfect and has 10,000. I could not find the exact number of bays, but this website says the actual number is close to that so 8,600 is the best approximation of those you gave. -THB 17:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shale

Mostly a British English - American English thing, I think. In British Stock Car Association, I find the statement: "Stock-car races are normally held on short oval tracks, either tarmac or shale. British Stock Car Association". Tarmac is described in Wikipedia (and the word is used in AE slightly differently). But what is a shale surface? Our shale article doesn't mention road usage. Is it a gravel road made specifically of ground shale? Rmhermen 14:31, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

This is quite interesting. I looked up as much as I can, and I got a lot of hits about abandoned road shale quarries, some mention of deteriorated shale roads, and the use of heated (expanded) shale as an aggregate. My best guess is that it is just crushed shale, which weathers very quickly to a clay surface, much like a classic tennis court. --Zeizmic 14:45, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

American stock car races used to be held on dirt tracks and on sand (at Daytona Beach), so crushed shale might be a candidate for a race track surface.--Filll 14:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

So the same as gravel, in US English ? StuRat 02:33, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Shale is one particular type of rock, while gravel is a collection of small stones of any kind of rock. You can certainly have shale gravel for covering a road (preferably weathered because crushed shale has sharp corners), and in that context "sahle gravel" is often shortened to just "shale". So then shale is gravel, but gravel need not be shale.  --LambiamTalk 08:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
What difference does it make whether the gravel is made of shale or some other rock ? Will it have any effect on driving characterstics ? StuRat 18:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help-need info on GECKOS

Hi one of our kids is doing a project on Geckos....we need to know and describe the head of a gecko and if it has ears we need to describe those too,if anyone has this info please email [removed] THANX!

See Gecko which should have pictures and many helpful links. Dismas|(talk) 15:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Not to be confused with gordon gekko the character in the Wallstreet film by Oliver Stone. The character, I might add, has some of the greatest lines in film history...
  • Greed - for lack of a better word - is good."
  • "Lunch? Lunch is for wimps"
  • "you better...or i'm going to come down there and eat your lunch for you"

and so on...ny156uk 17:41, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hacksaw blade

I need to cut some thick steel piping and steel angles and will buy a hacksaw. The problem is there are all different kinds of blades and I'm hoping someone can suggest what type or brand might be good for this work, especially as to the number of teeth per inch. Thanks. -THB 17:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

What exact metal and how thick? A manual hacksaw will take a lot off time and effort. If you're doing much of it consider an electric reciprocating saw such as a Sawzall or something specific for the work you are doing. They have a guide to which blades to use for what thickness of what material.Edison 20:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, I believe there are specific tools just for pipe cutting, you might want one of those. StuRat 02:30, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

What I'm up to is I have the "skeleton" of a sleeper sofa from the 1950's in my living room. I stripped all the upholstery off but the metal frame (consisting of ovoid pipes, angles, and straps of steel or iron) is too heavy for two people to move. Since I got it, the service elevators were redone and it won't fit in it even taking out roof panels. I live on a high floor so down the stairs or out the window are completely out of the question. I don't want to spend the money on an electric saw even if it takes all day to cut the thing in half. I think I need 14 teeth per inch. Do you guys think it won't work at all with a manual hacksaw? The pipes are 2" on the long axis (they're ovoid, not round) and I don't know how thick the walls are, and the angles are 3/16" thick. -THB 03:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Or if you guys can come up with any other ways to get rid of it? -THB 03:17, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

The obvious way to do it is to disconnected the pipes at the connections. Since you didn't do this, I am guessing it's welding together. Speaking of which, a torch would work, although you would need to isolate the area so there's nothing flammable there, and make sure there was adequate ventilation (open a window). StuRat 04:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's all welded together. It's an incredible thing, they don't make'em like that anymore. StuRat,you don't think a hacksaw would work? I think it would require less skill and expense than a blowtorch and would be less likely to damage the wooden floor. I'm tired of looking at the damned thing and having it take up space. -THB 05:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
A hacksaw might work, but it really will take all day, and your hand will be very sore at the end of that day, and you will need to keep changing the blade, and you will have metal splinters all over the place. I've found that the hacksaw blade keeps getting stuck when I try to saw through anything large. If you do use one, I suggest you saw all the way around the outside edge, changing the angle frequently, instead of trying to saw all the way through from one side. A cutting torch is not very expensive, maybe $20. StuRat 07:13, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
How about using an electric drill to cut through the tubes? Make sure you have the right bits for cutting through steel. Just drill through at the same point at different angles enough to weaken it so that you can then bust the thing by bending it?--Shantavira 08:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Isn't there a tool rental company where you live?  --LambiamTalk 08:46, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
No chance of being able to borrow an angle grinder from someone? --Kurt Shaped Box 08:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia and we editors of course assume no liability for injuries or damage resulting from your efforts. Definitely wear suitable eye protection and put down a drop cloth to catch the metal particles. If you plan to use a hack saw instead of a saber saw or reciprocating electric saw, "Tools and how to use them," Albert Jackson and David Day, Knopf, New York: 1978, says pp 96-98: As a guide, 3 teeth of the hacksaw blade should fit in the thickness of the material. Blades range from 14 to 32 teeth per inch. They recommend fine teeth for thin sheet metal or hard metal. The "Reader's Digest Complete Do It Yourself Manual" 1977, says p. 19 that a hacksaw with the correct blade can cut most metal you encounter in shop work. Use coarse teeth for thick metal, and keep at least 2 teeth in contact with the material. They mention 24 teeth per inch for 1/8 to 1/4 inch iron, steel and wrought iron pipe. Check at the hardware store for blade recommendations. The $20 torch sounds like a propane unit which would not cut metal. An oxyacetylene torch would be way overkill for your purpose and would requre specialized knowledge to use safely. Edison 16:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Find your nearest friendly Wikipedian and borrow their Sawzall. Otherwise, take Lambiam's suggestion and see about renting one. Otherwise, yes, a hacksaw and a fair amount of elbow grease will eventually do it; you're probably not talking about making too many cuts just to get it to fit in the elevator, right? For the hacksaw, invest in a few blades and keep switching to a sharp one as needed.

Atlant 19:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for all the help, guys. I'll let you know how it all turns out. -THB 19:48, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You're Still The One - What Does This Mean?

Having recently heard the Shania Twain 'hit' You're still the one, I was brought back to thinking about a portion of the lyrics. In the chorus does she say...

They said, i'll bet, "they'll never make it" but just look at us holding on.

OR does she say

They said "I'll bet they'll never make it", but look at us holding on

In other words is she betting about what they said, or are they (the sayees) betting themselves?

Clearly this hugely important issue must be resolved as soon as possible. Breathing wise it seems like she is doing the betting (they said, i'll bet,...) ideas??? ny156uk 17:41, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

They both have roughly the same meaning. The first says basically, 'I'll bet they said, "They will never make it."' and the latter says 'They said, "I'll bet they will never make it."' Why is this hugely important though? Both means others said they won't make it, but they're doing fine still. I'll go listen to it and see if I change my mind. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 18:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
And according to the official site's lyrics, it's
They said, "I bet they'll never make it"
--Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 18:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Animated Film - Best picture

I am after an answer to the following question I have spent hours trying to track down! This is the question:

What was the First Animated film to win an Oscar for best film?

Hope some one can help.

Thankyou.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Joolhenry (talk • contribs) .

The answer is none of them. Only Beauty and the Beast (1992 film) has even been nominated. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 18:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Nominated for what? It was certainly never nominated for Best Picture. JackofOz 03:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Oops, I mislinked. It should be Beauty and the Beast (1991 film). --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 04:13, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tax Question (United States)

A benevolent millionaire genius has an idea to help out his community. He has just invented a small token (with his face on it of course!) that is impossible to counterfeit. He strikes a deal with the local businesses to allow the townspeople to redeem these tokens for a sample of the businesses' goods or services for the next week. The business owners are impessed with his invention and agree. The transation is carried out completely legally, following all relevant tax code (like any savvy coupon book printer would). He mails his tokens out to all of the townspeople and they're very pleased and thank the millionaire profusely, giving him the jollies he wanted or whatever. But soon enough the townspeople realize the value of the tokens and start trading them amongst themselves for various trinkets or small services like a lawn mowing. But soon they're being traded for much larger things- one old man finally sells his old pickup for 20 tokens. The small business owners find that they can buy food from the local market with tokens, so they begin to accept payment in tokens. The local factory finds that it can get away with tossing a few of these tokens the workers' way and they'll work for free, so it accepts payments for shipments to local businesses in tokens, which allows the local businesses to operate on only tokens if necessary. It never occurs to anyone to exchange the tokens for USD, after all nobody uses real money anymore. The phenomenon quickly spreads to other towns in the area, and finally to a region and the whole country. It first gains as wide an acceptance as credit cards, then surpasses them and finally it's in direct competition with the US dollar! The genius knows all about the value of money, so he prints more up so it can be more widely circulated, but carefully limits the circulation to curb inflation. Before you know it the Token economy is far stronger than the USD's and the only one that uses the dollar is the government.

Now of course the token's aren't by law "legal tender for the payment of debts, public and private" but they're accepted by everyone so practically there's no difference. But at what point do tokens become taxable? And is it possible for a competing currency to arise in america? --frothT C 18:09, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

With the usual disclaimers about asking a lawyer and not us for legal device: In principal, if I issue scrip to pay someone to mow my lawn, and they can redeem it for $10 worth of goods at my store, the U.S. government would want the worker to pay taxes for $10. They might also want social security payments. They have tried to tax barter arrangements which were cashless exchanges of goods and services. In practice, they would have to catch you. If it were widespread and if records were kept, the likelihood of getting caught would increase. With the example of an individual issuing scrip, I don't see what would stop hyperinflation. Edison 18:34, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Why would anybody take initially restrictive tokens over the almighty, universally accepted dollar? Especially when they're only backed by a mere millionaire, their buying power is somewhat vague, there's only one denomination, and it's impossible to make uncounterfeitable tokens (and costly to try). What merchant would want to have to deal with two different currencies? Clarityfiend 18:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
See Ithaca Hours, Liberty Dollar, Local currency, Digital gold currency, etc. And it is correct that the exchanges would be considered barter and are taxable: IRS pub. -THB 19:31, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the links.. so this has been done before! I also found this link .. what a jaw-droppingly idiotic law. What happened to freedom? --frothT C 22:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
That rule just says you can't create counterfeit coins, what's wrong with that ? You can still create coins, so long as they aren't meant to fool people. StuRat 02:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Whoever... makes... any coins of... metal... intended for use as current money... whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States... or of original design... shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. No trickery here, the ellipses are for clarity. Making anything intended for use as money is illegal apparently --frothT C 05:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree, that bold part does seem rather inappropriate. Still, there are many cases, such as casino tokens, where they do just that, so this rule must be ignored completely. StuRat 07:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
To the people that think this is a ridiculous assumption, like the post 3 above, you're concentrating on inconsequential parameters. What if they weren't 'restrictive', were backed by more then just a mere millionare and wasn't "uncounterfeitable" or as much as most money is. This is exactly what has happened, and still is happening in Vietnam. The official currency is Dong and many places will tell you that USD is NOT legal currency, but finding someone that will NOT accept USD for payment isn't easy. Merchants are happy to deal with 2 currencies there. Vespine 00:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
These parameters are the ones the OP specified. If you want to consider a scenario where Gates decided to issue Billy Bucks, I'd have to ask, why bother? What's in it for him? As for Vietnam, the dollar is a more accepted currency than the dong, not less, as in the original question. Clarityfiend 04:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

S&H Green Stamps were widely used as currency, at one point. StuRat 02:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I remember getting such stamps, sticking them in booklets, and redeeming them for lots of neat stuff, but I never heard of them being used as currency. Merchants seem to have replaced stamps with discounts for card-carrying customersEdison 16:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

A similar scenario actually did happen once in the U.S. See Joshua A. Norton, the first and only Emperor of the United States. howcheng {chat} 19:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Whoever... makes... any coins of... metal...' There appears to be an obvious way round this problem.Don't use metal Lemon martini 21:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] research

This is pretty open-ended I know, but I'm doing some research and I want to know what people understand by creativity. MHDIV Englishnerd 18:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

The ability to make something from nothing. -THB 19:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

No - the something is created from an idea that hasn't previously been formulated. Fleming didn't create penicillin from nothing. He created it using previously unassembled data.

"The ability to make something from nothing" is creation, eg. God creating the universe from nothing. This question is about creativity, a different concept. Hard to define creativity but I can give you a few examples. Anyone who writes a compelling sentence (eg. here, on these very Ref Desk pages), or paints a haunting picture, or thinks outside the square to come up with the answer to eg. Fermat's Last Theorem, or fixes a car that the mechanics have given up on, or writes a beautiful tune that never occurred to anyone before, or invents a simple device that will save lives or water or dollars, or ...(you fill in the blanks)... engages in creativity. JackofOz 04:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
The ability to answer this question would be a good example. DirkvdM 08:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Or the ability to come up with an alternative answer. DirkvdM 08:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Not that there is anything wrong with my first two answer, but ... Just like the beauty of a musical piece lies in the right mix between being recognisable on the one hand (a beat one can follow and a key the listeners will understand) and innovative on the other hand, creativity is the right mix between sanity and insanity - too far to one end and you're a factory worker (or whichever collar), too far to (or off) the other end and they will put you away. DirkvdM 08:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
In the course of doing your research, don't forget to read our article Creativity.  --LambiamTalk 08:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
As always wikipedia was my first port of call! Englishnerd 22:36, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Generally creativity or being creative is the ablity to think of somthing which has not been done before, wheather this is an approach to somthing that has never been done before or is a new way of aproaching/tackling/looking at somthing that has been done may times before. One suggestion might be 'Lateral thinking' if we have such an article.--AMX 12:36, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Looking for any Info on Author "Susannah Leigh"

Dear all volunteers, I am looking for any info on the Author Susannah Leigh. I have asked at our local Rotorua Library, Googled her name, and Wikimedia Foundation, But alas nothing. I have found all her books she writes, but I need a photo and a bit about her life.

Michelle Kinney from Wikimedia Foundation suggested I try the English Wikipedia Volunteers,

So I was hoping there was someone out there that could help me in my search.

Susannah Leigh she writes puzzel books and kids books.

Id like Photos info on her life, like when she started writing, where she lives, etc.

thanks heaps an cheers Suzie

There are about 16,000 hits for her at Google.com. If she has released personal info it is likely to be there somewhere. I also searched online and found reviews of her books at "Paperbacks -- Dawn of Fire by Susannah Leigh. Kaganoff, Penny. Publishers Weekly. New York: Apr 27, 1992.Vol.239, Iss. 20; pg. 258" Also found "Paperbacks--Fiction Kaganoff, Penny. Publishers Weekly. New York: Mar 31, 1989.Vol.235, Iss. 13; pg. 54" which is a review of "Fleur-de-Lys," written by Susannah Leigh, but I do not have access to the text of the articles, so I don't know if they talk about her life. You might get answers to your questions by writing to her care of the publisher. Sometimes authors answer such letters. Isaac Asimov, for instance was good about answering his fan mail. Other authors such as Harper Lee or J.D. Salinger avoid public attention. Edison 20:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Awsome thanks for all that info on Susannah leigh. I will go forth and concure this.

[edit] CURRYS MP3 PLAYER

Where on the Curry's website can you find the new mp3 player that they are currently advertiseing, with 2gb of memory, on UK tv???

Why not try a google site search site:www.currys.co.uk MP3 Player 2GB?

[edit] Copyright question

I was recently photographed at a Halloween party by an official photographer, with my full consent, and this photograph is available on-line at the organiser's homepage. Do I have permission to publish this photograph online myself, or would that violate the organiser's copyright? After all, I am the model. JIP | Talk 20:31, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

He who took it, owns it. Did you sign a consent? --Cody.Pope 20:34, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I did not sign anything. He who took it, e-mailed the photograph privately to me and in the process, asked my permission to publish it, and I gave it. I figure that if I want to publish it myself, I should ask him first. JIP | Talk 20:36, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
You didn't sign anything? I would have made you sign something, I don't know how well an email would hold up if you denied giving permission --frothT C 22:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
It would probably hold up, at least under estoppel. I wouldn't do an entire contract by e-mail but asking for permission and giving it is probably just fine. --140.247.250.229 23:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Since you have the email address, you could just ask if you could put it in myspace, and give the appropriate credit. It really is his picture, but sometimes they don't mind releasing low resolution versions for advertisement. --Zeizmic 20:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

This is a sticky subject and might start a war but you do not actually hold any copyright over your own image, paparazzi and owners of security cameras do not have to ask permission to publish their photos, if they are for editorial, as opposed to commercial purposes. If the party was in a public place then the photographer was courteous to ask your permission, but it wasn't legally required. If the photographer was hired by the person who organised the party, then permission is implied in you attending the party. I would say it would be more up to the host to inform the guests that there would be a photographer on the premises rather then the photographer them self, they're just 'doing their job'. As to wether you should ask, it depends how the photographer was hired. Some photographers take minimum commission and make their money back by selling photos back to the people in them, this used to be very common. In this case the photographer retains the rights to the photos and you WOULD be braking the law if you took the photos for free. Some are paid in advance to take the photos and in effect sell the rights as well as the photos to the person who hired them. This is probably becoming more common since digital photography doesn't have as much 'outlay' as the old method. Vespine 00:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
If it's a professional photographer using her as a sample or something on his web page, that seems like a commercial purpose. And I think you're way off on your argument; if a celebrity (whose likeness is copyrighted and all that) went to her friend's small birthday party and there's a hired photographer there, he can't just sell prints of her without her manager's permission, and the party organizer doesn't have authority to grant the photographer permission to use the likenesses of the guests for commercial purposes. --frothT C 05:21, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Not that this is likely to apply to the original question (then again, how can we know?), but I thought that one didn't need any permission to publish a photograph of a public figure. Bush, for example, would have to spend all day giving permission to photographers (ah, so that 's why he doesn't get around to making any sensible politics?). DirkvdM 08:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
You don't need permission in most common-law countries to publish a photograph of anyone, public figure or not, in the context of a news item. However, you do need permission to publish a photograph of a person (and especially a notable person) for commercial purposes. So the Calgary Herald can splash photos of Stephen Harper all over its front page, but Barbie's Sex Shop can't use Stephen Harper's image in an advertisement selling marital aids. (Nor should it. Yeesh.) --Charlene 13:38, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I should have said "permission of the subject of the photo" in the above paragraph. Of course you still need the permission of the copyright holder, if there is one. --Charlene 13:39, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

There's no question the photographer owns the image, but if you ask permission for a specific, limited use (such as display on your own non-commercial webpage), it's quite possible the photographer will grant that permission to you.

Atlant 19:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mark Banknote 1908 Germany

From the article on mark currecy I have red that mark banknote issued in 1908 Germany are today very valuable and may even fetch 55 million dollors a piece.Is there any factual data available regarding this fact.If so please inform.

With regards

Anil Saxena

A little bit of googling found this: The E-Sylum: Volume 8, Number 47, November 6, 2005, Article 3
MOST EXPENSIVE BANKNOTE
The November 8 issue of Bank Note Reporter has a front-page
article about the most expensive bank note: “Breaking the
$1 Million barrier Oct. 21 and setting a record price for
a piece of paper money sold at public auction was one of
three known “Grand Watermelon” $1,000 notes.
So, no, 55 million is a crazy price for a banknote. Vespine 23:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Long term unemployment (UK)

What is the best way to reenter the labour market having being long-term unemployed? What industries/professions are more liberal? How can someone disguise it in the CV?

You could say you did freelance work, but that is if you did do freelance work during the period off. --Cody.Pope 21:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I used to find jobs for prisoners due for release, some long termers and others with serious criminal records. But I networked with understanding employers and I told them the whole truth which they respected. I also gave them a resume of what efforts the prisoners had made on the inside in order to be rehabilitated in the working community. So I would say, be honest, explain yourself fully, be ready for lots of disappointments and whilst you are busy making loads of applications, do voluntary work until it hurts.
I'd say it really depends what skills and qualifications you have and where you personally will/won't work. Stacking shelves at a supermarket is usually not too hard to get. Getting into postal work is usually not hard, unless you do have a criminal record, it's a fairly high turnover occupation. Another option is to talk to employment agencies in the sectors you are interested in and try to get temp work. You can get stuck in a "temp rut" but if you are keen and a decent worker it can lead to more permanent employment. Vespine 23:34, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Plenty of call centres and temp agencies around the UK looking for people who can read/write and use a computer and phone. The local Jobcentre should be able to offer you some help re-entering the marketplace and help you find educational programs for those in various circumstances needing assistance re-entering the workforce. Alternately, have you considered self-employent? Perhaps there is something you can do for others that they willpay you for. Robovski 04:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
And then there's this. B00P 08:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

My advice... try the charity sector. They're exceedingly liberal and are more inclined to look at what you can offer than what you've been doing for the last x years. A popular way to gain work in charity (it can be difficult to break into without brilliant skills) is to offer to work for nothing for a specified period in return for a proper job description and a reference if you've done well. --Dweller 08:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I tried this once when I was unemployed in the UK and was amazed to discover that many charities were discouraging people from offering to work for nothing - volunteers, in other words. They said they would only accept volunteers if the person could commit to working there for at least six months and had a skill to offer. --Richardrj talk email 10:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised. Until very recently, I worked in the charity sector for more than 10 years. I found that small to medium sized charities are desperate for help, if people are willing to commit to come regularly and for a decent period of time, even if they are unskilled on arrival. Most smallish charities depend for their existence on volunteers. What no organisation wants to do is to spend time training someone who then doesn't fulfil the role properly. There's c.250,000 charities in the UK and most of them are smallish and would be delighted with the offer of some regular unpaid help. --Dweller 10:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that many charities are deluged with people who aren't really looking to help - they're looking for something to put on their resumes. You spend time training them but they do nothing whatsoever and only show up when they feel like it, and for years afterwards you're deluged with calls from prospective employers. If you tell the truth to those employers, you can be sued for slander. Fun, hm? --Charlene 13:43, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Try McDonald's and similar fast-food chains. They have a high turnover. See also the Royal post.Mr.K. 21:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)