Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 November 30

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[edit] November 30

[edit] Gender

Would it be appropriate for posters to indicate their gender in order that respondents can take account of it and try not to upset them unduly?--Light current 00:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

This is a question for the discussion page. And did you really mean gender, or sex? JackofOz 01:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Do you mean be more "gentle" with the ladies? That seems a little absurd. -Elmer Clark 01:32, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Why would their sex be relevant? Marnanel 01:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
No it would not be appropriate. What would be appropriate is not to give responses that could upset anyone. Maybe you should list your gender, age, sexual orientation, race and religion, so that people can avoid upsetting you? ;) Vespine 02:37, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
We kinda need background information in order to give accurate results... if a six-year-old asks something, they wouldn't get the same response as a 30-year-old would get. Cbrown1023 02:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I think LC means that occasionally a female participant may be called "he" when referred to in a page. LC wants to know whether posting gender in order to avoid that is appropriate. --Wooty Woot? contribs 03:24, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
That's what I was thinking. Cbrown1023 03:28, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Using gender neutral language is a good skill to develop for anyone that may need to address people when gender has not been ascertained. Vespine 03:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
No I was thinking of gender specific touchy areas! (For both sexes)--Light current 05:22, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I try to use gender-neutral language, but it's damn near impossible, and quite awkward. It's not bad when talking directly to the person of unknown gender, but difficult indeed when talking about third parties of unknown gender: "if he/she like him/her, then they should go on a double date with him/her and him/her". StuRat 07:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Do you mean like the ones in today's featured article? --Maxamegalon2000 06:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm finding it hard to understand what you might be trying to gain from this. I cannot think of anything which would be inappropriate for you to post as a reply to a man/woman which it would be appropriate for you to post to a woman/man. Plus, you have a mixed crowd reading all posts. On top of this, one of the strengths of anonymous posting is that people do not 'interpret' your answers according to what they think 'people like you' think/feel. This reminds me of the odd question a few months ago about 'why so few women post on the reference desk', a question whose very premise I also fail to understand. Skittle 23:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
In all honesty there is far too much gender-specific language. It is quite disheartening that people are so willing to be offending by phraseology, rather than looking past the words used to the meaning of the content. A rose by any other name...This is not to say that rude and inappropriate language should be ignored/accepted without notice, but that we should acknowledge that many things are said that have no meaning with regards to either gender or sex but which refer to either (or both) in order to explain/develop their point. ny156uk 00:28, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Siamese behavior

My sister's cat is half siamese, half tabby. He likes to sleep with his head up against the corner of something, like a chair leg. I was wondering if this is just the weirdness of the cat, or a siamese behavior, like wool-sucking (which he also does). Why would he do this? 71.220.98.69 00:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

It sounds like the cat is missing it's mother, and is simulating leaning up against mom and trying to suckle (sucking one's thumb doesn't work well when you have claws). Is this a kitten ? StuRat 07:09, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
No, he's a full-grown cat. He just leans the top of his head against the corner of something and goes to sleep. 138.192.151.94 15:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Even an elderly tomcat may treat his human as a mother substitute. An example is their reflexive action of "treading" alternately with their front paws, which kittens do to get milk from the mother. Edison 16:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
But it's not a behavior that looks anything like he's trying to nurse or anything. (And he's imprinted on my sister, so behaviors like that should be more centered on her, right?) 71.220.98.69 04:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
My 18-year-old cat does that all the time. Folds in the bed covers, my hand, the leg of a chair. I think it's just more comfortable than flat on the floor. I know I feel more comfortable when I'm lying down and have my head propped up. User:Zoe|(talk) 19:41, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
If I drop a paperback book on the floor near where one of my cats likes to sleep and forget to pick it up, he'll use it as a pillow. --Anonymous, 01:35 UTC, December 1.

Maybe I should try to get a picture of this, to show what he's doing better? 71.220.98.69 04:01, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

It couldn't hurt. StuRat 06:54, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Many Movies,Many Cheers

What do you think are some of the most inspirational movies of all time.

Virtually anything by Sergei Eisenstein. Purely a personal choice, of course. Clio the Muse 01:18, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Naturally a personal choice. My list would include Lilies of the Field, Brother Sun, Sister Moon, and Field of Dreams. JackofOz 01:22, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Seconding Field of Dreams, and I would also recommend Big Fish, It's a Wonderful Life, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, and, on the offchance you can find it (or if you get TCM, where it shows pretty often), Between Two Worlds. -Elmer Clark 01:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Funny, I thought of Field of Dreams too when this question first popped up but then I started to second-guess myself. But the fact is that that was the "snap answer" for me. --Justanother 02:07, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
"Here's answering you, kid." Casablanca. Clarityfiend 02:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I actually haven't seen it but isn't Chariots of Fire considered a classic in the inspirational movie type of way? Vespine 03:02, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I can't say it inspired me to become an Olympic athlete, but it was certainly very popular. I would also add Sideways (2004) as a metaphor for always maintaining hope in the face of hopelessness and depression. JackofOz 03:31, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Mind you, it depends on what the viewer is being inspired to do. One of the main reasons that violence in films is considered harmful for children is the belief that some of them will copy what they see, in real life. John Hinckley, who tried to kill Reagan, claimed he had repeatedly watched the 1976 movie Taxi Driver, in which a disturbed man plots to assassinate a presidential candidate. So, that movie was definitely "inspirational". JackofOz 03:31, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

The Shawshank Redemption. This is the story of an unjustly accused person who is punished for his alleged offenses. Then, under the thumb of an evil Prison Administrator, he eventually manages to get the best of the Administrator and escape his unjust punishment and finally find freedom. I can relate to this on a rather personal level. StuRat 07:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Contact. — QuantumEleven 07:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if SCZenz is going to delete this thread. It asks for opinions, which is not strictly allowed here, so if he doesn't, he's not being consistent. DirkvdM 07:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Words fail me. JackofOz 07:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Shirley Valentine does it for me. I think everyone who is over the age of 40 and married should be forced by law to see it

Requiem for a Dream. Le Fabeleux destin d'Amelie Poulain. 1 Night in Paris. Pesapluvo 12:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I second the Shawshank Redemption, Contact and Big Fish. Plus The Green Mile, What Women Want (one of the very few comedies to actually get me laugh), Donnie Darko, Fight Club, and if you count Anime, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Now and Then, Here and There, and FLCL.
Rocky.. As for Requiem for a Dream???? I found that the opposite of inspirational, was that a joke answer? haha.. Vespine 22:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I doubt it. Inspiration is a very subjective thing. There are no right or wrong answers to this question. JackofOz 23:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Lots of good movies about the stupidity of war. My particular favourite is Gallipoli for bringing home the awful waste of promising lives. --Dweller 10:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Have a look out for All Quiet on the Western Front, the original 1930 version by Lewis Milestone (not the awful remake!). It deals with the same theme; and though quite dated now, it is far better than Gallipoli, in my estimation, anyway. Clio the Muse 10:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Яussiaп F 16:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Making Webpage

I'm a high school student trying to do a professional looking website to raise awareness for global warming. I would like it to be very aesthetic and eye-pleasing (animations, roll-overs, lots of pictures). I have access to Adobe Photoshop, Imageready and Dreamweaver. Can someone run me over the steps on how to start creating the webpage? For example, do I make the layout in PS first, then splice? Thanks. Jamesino 01:40, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

You could do that, though it will likely be very inefficient and be very hard to modify. The orthodox answer is to say, "you should work your way through an online HTML tutorial (just google "HTML tutorial" and you'll get a million of them) and maybe a CSS tutorial. (And maybe a minimal amount of Javascript if you want to do roll-overs — just Google 'javascript image rollover' for a million examples you can steal and modify.) Having done that, you'll want to then start by first thinking about your layout and only after you've given it some thought, then work on implementing it (use Photoshop to create your images, and either Dreamweaver or just plain-old Notepad (with your new HTML/CSS knowledge) to create the layout)." But that's just one answer — there is no "universal" answer to the question of how to start, just as there is no one answer to the question "How do I start a painting?" In my opinion, though, if you go about it in the way I've outlined above, you'll 1. take away a much deeper understanding of how to put together a web page than if you just use Photoshop and the splice tool, 2. probably end up with a more functional, more beautiful, and more accessible page. But that's just my approach to these things; for some people splicing is the cat's pajamas, though I doubt any real web designers go about it in that way. --24.147.86.187 02:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Do most professional web designers use Photoshop to create the images individually or something? What is CSS in layman's terms? I didn't understand the Wiki page on it. Jamesino 02:51, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, many professional web designers use Photoshop to create all their images. The images are then often "sliced" into smaller images and placed into HTML tables that form the layout structure of the web page.
Cascading Style Sheets are a way to force an overall "style" onto the set of web pages that make up a complete web site. CSS allows you to easily specify a lot of stuff (like fonts and colors) in just one place, and have these specifications apply across the entire website. Otherwise, you'd end up including a lot of redundant text in every web page (with the attendent difficulty of having to change it everywhere if you decided to, for example, use a different font).
Atlant 16:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I suggest spending more time on the content and less on the presentation. That is, make a simple HTML page and get the content right, then, and only then, should you worry about making it "fancy". If you worry too much about the presentation, you will get a page that's impossible to load by anyone with dialup or strict security settings, and that doesn't have much of anything to say anyway. StuRat 07:02, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

What StuRat said (he keeps on beating me to my answers). Also, what it should look like depends totally on who you want to reach. Look at this site. It looks very simple and straightforward, focussing on info, which is what an ecyclopedia is for. If you want to inform an educated audience, that's the right look (irrespective of age). Getting the background colour and/or image right already makes a big difference. If you want to make it more colourful and add illustrations, then first think about how you can use those to get info across. What type of illustration is best for what you want to say and how can you use colours to distinguish different things in those tables or graphs or whatever they are. Then make a page with nothing else and see if it needs a finishing touch. Go for the simplest ways to improve something (a very general rule in life).
Using the technology as a starting point is a very bad idea. The technology should adapt to what you want, not the other way around. Of course if you're not too familiar with it that is difficult, which is the reason many websites are designed the wrong way around. If you can't get the effect you want then it's best to not use any effect at all.
One thing you could think about is a professional looking logo. Sokmething like the one at the top of this page. It's a very simple thing that will make people think you represent some 'official' institution or such and take you seriously, and with a serious subject about which a lot of bull is told, that migh make all the difference to potential readers.
Oh, and please, don't use (Flash) animations for the sake of using it. Use it only functionally if at all. And preferably give people the option to halt the animation. It is very irritating to read something when there is something flashing right next to it. This is why commercials use a lot of animation - it is almost impossible to ignore somehting that moves. But do you want to distract your readers from the content?
Oh, yes, and look at other websites to see what are good and bad ideas. And maybe 'steal' the code. That's the beauty of html. You can look at the source of webpages (right click for that option). Make use of that.
And give us the url, so we can see if our advise has helped. I'm curious, also because I think the subject is so important. Oh, yes, and give people a way to interact. Maybe let them give comments, which are then added to the site. Or take it even further and add a disussion forum, maybe like the way Wikipedia works. DirkvdM 08:07, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
And if our advice was wrong, we will advise you further. StuRat 10:13, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot guys =), but the webpage won't be done until February. Jamesino 22:30, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] cargo ship crew organization

I have searched for the answer without luck. I am looking for the way a crew of a cargo ship is organized. The captain is the lead, and there are officers under him/her. Who is under the officers? I would like to know what kinds of jobs are on cargo ships all the way from captain to the lowest person on the organization chart. Thanks!

See if you can find what you are looking for in Merchant navy. Clio the Muse 02:14, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Repairing Shoes

Could repairing shoes using that awful smelling glue be seen as hazardous, especially if it was ones sole occupation? 8-)--Light current 02:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't be a heel. Vespine 02:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Toe the mark, here! No silly banter. Serious responses only! Yes, you would want to see the MSDS for the glue; SIRI is a good clearinghouse for that. But it is likely contains organic solvents like toluene that are bad for you. --Justanother 02:22, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

OTOF some of these people also act as pseudo locksmiths. Could that be the key to the answer?--Light current 02:32, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Tend your sheep. --Justanother 02:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
That comment is far too crooked for me 8-?--Light current 02:56, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

There is likely a warning that the glue should only be applied in a well-ventilated area. I would take that warning seriously, as you already seem to be suffering from the effects of inhaling glue fumes. Also, try to avoid putting your foot in your mouth, at least until the glue cures. :-) StuRat 06:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Supplementary point: I have never understood what constitutes a "well-ventilated area". I have one small window open as usual. So am I in a well ventilated area right now? Or does it mean I should go into the garage or into the garden?--Shantavira 09:35, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
The concept is in the field of industrial hygiene (always struck me as a stange term - but not so strange as gas-free engineer - hmmm needs an article I see. Stubbing). It would have to do with the number of air changes per hour in the space. I would have to look on OSHA to see what the parameters might be but I have already been goofing off too much so I won't. Anyway, no way your small window would constitute "well-ventilated". --Justanother 14:14, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't really find a good definition, but looking at lab standards, I would say that 5 complete air changes per hour is 'well-ventilated'. For a small window, that would require a fan. The nose can usually tell if it has entered a well-ventilated room. I would think the average house has 1-2 air changes per hour. --Zeizmic 14:36, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Generation X

Could Generation X be considered the first global generation? Not that it could include every single culture or that the set of years it covers is the same for each country, but that there are a few similarities between different countries? 69.40.249.99 03:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't really see how that makes it global? International maybe, but Baby boomers were international before then, even thought that article focuses on the states. Vespine 05:09, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, the internet comes to mind as the first way for people of all countries to communicate with each other on a massive scale, and Gen X was the first generation to grow up with that. StuRat 06:51, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

What constitutes a "global generation"? I would think the international distribution of radios, records, and movies would have been the first indications. British people who had never met an American could hear what Americans spoke like, dressed like, danced like, etc., and vice versa. German kids of the 30s picked up Big Band music (see the movie Swing Kids), etc. User:Zoe|(talk) 19:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 'Floating hinge'

Seeing that there was not currently an article on floating hinges, I've determined that I should start one. However, searching on Google reveals to me that the term 'floating hinge' is never used except when discussing grills. While I know what the term means, I'm unsure how I would. Is the term used about anything but grills? Is there a more technical term I wouldn't know? Vitriol 04:37, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Tell us what it is. --Justanother 05:07, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Google also tells us that the payload door of the space shuttle has floating hinges (especially when orbiting - yuk yuk yuk) --Justanother 05:15, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
So by floating hinge you mean a hinge that does not have a fixed axis of rotation? --Justanother 05:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I think a floating hinge article is fine, even if it only applies to grills. You could alternatively create a subsection under the hinge article, which is currently little more than a stub (I'd like to see exploded diagrams of each type of hinge). You could provide links between the grill (cooking) article, the hinge article, and the floating hinge article, if any. And if your writing isn't up to par, hopefully somebody will fix it up rather than delete it, so don't become unhinged at the mere thought. :-) StuRat 06:41, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't think of an appropriate stub template ._. Vitriol 14:03, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
You can use {{engineering-stub}} as hinges are mechanical engineering. --Justanother 14:22, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Da-na-na-NAAA! STUB GET Vitriol 15:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Video game question

Another question: what's it called in video games where going backwards is faster than going forwards? Vitriol 05:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard a term used to describe that - jumping for the sake of speed is usually part of bunnyhopping, but because backward movement is usually slower than forward, I doubt there's a specific term for it. --Wooty Woot? contribs 07:31, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
No, on some games if you hit the sidestep button and go backwards it makes you faster. I remember seeing an article on it here with a mathsy diagram on it. Vitriol 13:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I've never seen a game where you would go faster backwards than forward. There are lots of games however where if you side-strafe + walk forward at the same time diagonally you are indeed faster than only walking straight. But I too have never heard a specific term for it. -- Aetherfukz 14:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
That might be, nay, probably is, it. It's infuriating because I KNOW I've seen an article on it on Wikipedia. Vitriol 15:32, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Maybe you're referring to Straferunning? --Maelwys 18:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for beating my frustration into a tiny pulp! Vitriol 20:51, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
In Ocarina of Time, going backwards is faster than forwards.

[edit] City needed to be identified

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4766/mysterycity26af6.jpg Which city might this possibly be? Harwoof 07:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Some clues:
  • It looks rather industrial, due to the prominent smokestacks. However, there isn't much visible smoke coming out of them, showing this is a city which has attempted to clean up it's air recently. This might indicate a former communist country, whose government didn't care at all about the health of it's citizen under communism (hence the huge smokestacks), but is now forced to care, as those citizens can now vote them out of office.
Off-topic! Beware the big bad SCZenz ... DirkvdM 07:15, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I don't see any body of water, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
  • It looks to be a fairly small city, due to the small number of skyscrapers, but, again, the rest may just not be shown.
  • I also notice one building is under construction, as shown by the cranes atop it. So, I would guess this is a growing city.
  • The building under construction also has the numbers "20" and "30" on, I believe, the 20th and 30th stories, respectively. This both shows that these buildings aren't all that tall and that they don't use a different numbering system.
  • There appears to be snow on the ground, so we can eliminate tropical cities.
  • The trees aren't evergreens, however, so it's not an arctic or sub-arctic city. That leaves us with a city in a temperate zone.
  • There aren't any prominent churches, mosques, temples, etc., so it's likely a rather secular society.
  • Most of the architecture looks rather functional, with only minor decorative touches. This would indicate that the city isn't all that wealthy, or you would see much more radical, extensive decorations.
Do we have any other clues, like the continent or date the pic was taken ? StuRat 08:29, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
It looks central or eastern European to me. For some reason I think the low-slung red brick building in the foreground could be a prison. --Richardrj talk email 08:35, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I've spent a while considering the prison question. The building has (or references) the panopticon design, but I think the windows are too big to make it a prison, and the external security looks inadequate. --Tagishsimon (talk)
Looks like Asia to me. Anchoress 08:40, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Why is that ? StuRat 08:48, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Cuz of the combo of old and really new, spiffy buildings, the combo of highrises and industrial in the same area, and the quantity of construction. Asia is booming right now, lots of small cities are having business districts spring up overnite, and they have a construction boom. Also lots of wide flat areas like that in China. Anchoress 09:01, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Another thought: Perhaps the lack of smoke indicates economic collapse. The building under construction doesn't seem to go along with that, but communist governments often do stupid things like start a building when there is no need for it and no money to build it (see Ryugyong Hotel). Also, I notice a lack of people and vehicles on the streets, which appear to be unplowed. This all sounds like North Korea. However, it doesn't look like Pyongyang, the capital. Perhaps a smaller city in NK ? StuRat 09:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. A utilitarian (socialist/communist) country where property values are not a consideration would be more likely to build highrises next to smokestacks. Anchoress 09:13, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. However, North Korea is rather mountainous, and the pic is not, so perhaps I was wrong in that respect. StuRat 09:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
A minor comment on the trees: these are birches which can grow farther north than most evergreen trees, so the city might be located pretty far to the north. Apart from that, it looks vaguely Eastern European or Russian to me (probably from the style of the tenements and the smokestacks, although there are probably some outskirts of London that look similar) -- Ferkelparade π 09:23, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

It's a shame that highrise under construction isn't closer. I do note that whethever script the writing is on the signs around it is horizontal not vertical, which at least leans away from some scripts. One clue might be the rather elegant and very distinctive builfding immediately to the left of the two big chimneys to the right (between it and the skyscraper), topped with a golden sphere. There's also considerably more cosntruction going on past those towers (or could that be some form of strange bridge?). I'd agree there's an Asian or eastern European and possibly restructuring-after-communism feel to the place. Could it be one of the former Soviet Republics in central Asia like Astana (probably too flat, come to think of it)? Or possibly one of the newly growing cities of eastern China? Other than that, Russia is probably the most likely place to consider. Grutness...wha? 09:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the golden onion dome right of centre suggests Russia.--Shantavira 09:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Are you sure it's an onion dome ? I can barely make it out at all, much less identify it as an onion dome. StuRat 10:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
There's some odd-looking U-shaped pipes just behind the three smaller chimneys. I agree with Grutness that these look like some kind of bridge. I think there's a river back there. One more thing - no-one has yet asked the OP where he/she got the picture from. I imagine it's a quiz of some kind, but knowing that might help. --Richardrj talk email 10:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Yup, it's a generic quiz, won't get much of an insight there. Harwoof 10:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Can't see any onion dome, to begin with. No other clues, I'm afraid, I'm still leaning towards some sort of ex-Soviet city, but I don't have much to go on beyond that. Harwoof 10:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I looked at it in super zoom, and there's a building between the two smokestacks that looks like a parliament building, but it's facing away diagonally, at about 35 degrees to the left of perpendicular to the camera angle. Anchoress 10:17, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
The buildings in the background look pretty modern to me, as well, I'd assume some relative economic prosperity, what with the glass. Harwoof 10:14, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I'd say its one of the Muslim, Central Asian ex-Soviet republics. The "Onion Dome" looks more like a "Minuit" to me suggesting a Muslim country, also if its in a quiz this is likely to be a biggish and well known city. Ken 11:51, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Do you mean a minaret ? StuRat 14:34, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Looking at Pictures on wikipedia id say Astana looks the most promising, however I cant find a definite landmark, from the mystery city in it. Ken 12:07, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I think it's a good bet too. Looking at google images, one striking similarity is the number of cranes in evidence. No obvious point of comparison, though. Anchoress 12:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
The cranes match, but there's not one pic of those huge smokestacks in hundreds of pics I've viewed of Astana, so I don't think that's it. StuRat 14:28, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Am I the only one who finds the whole thing uncannily like City 17, down to the same chimneys and the alien megastructures eating the old sov-block architecture? Creepy. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 15:46, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Which could put it near Belgrade, according to the City 17 article. --Richardrj talk email 15:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

That "onion dome/minaret" right of centre looks like a clock tower with possibly a bell tower on top. There's also a dome-like structure between the 2 large smoke stacks, which could be a convention centre or concert hall - but not an onion dome. As for bodies of water, the murky area at bottom left between the 2 strips of snow could be a river or a creek. The building with 20 and 30 is still under construction, so there's no way of knowing how tall it will be. Btw, this would make a great jigsaw puzzle. JackofOz 00:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

The one between the smoke stacks is the one I looked at in closeup, and it looks like a parliament building or similar, but it's almost perpendicular to the camera angle. Anchoress 00:12, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

This page says it is Moscow (I googled "mystery city"). --Cam 01:57, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

There you go :) It is Moscow.

[edit] Comparison of exercise surfaces

I do stairs in my building for exercise. I had been using the wooden staircases, because I thought it'd be easier v/v impact (I have various recurring running-related injuries that force me to baby everything below the knees), but due to the noise I've started using the concrete staircase. Surprisingly, I've found the concrete staircase easier and less of a strain (on my plantar fasciitis, achilles tendonitis and shin splints). Why would that be? On a side note, I never had a problem with my achilles tendon until the brief period when I did stairmaster about 10 years ago. I always suspected the progressive resistance (with the pedals sinking) for this. Anchoress 08:13, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

That seems counterintuitive to me, as well. I would think that carpeted wooden stairs would be the easiest on your feet. Your choice of shoes, of course, also makes a huge diff. StuRat 08:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah that's for sure, with all my stupid foot and leg stuff I always wear the best shoes possible. Anchoress 12:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
You might do better on the science desk, but I would say the rigid stairs would be easier to climb because you are not putting so much energy into deforming the stair tread. Imagine what would happen if the stairs deformed by an inch or two as you climbed them; it would be very hard work.--Shantavira 09:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, oh well it's here now lol. I was wondering about that. Anchoress 12:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I think you would find that the slope and riser distance are different for each type of stair. Old wooden stairs would be a lot steeper with a higher step. Over the years, stair standards have trended towards lower risers, and deeper steps. --Zeizmic 12:51, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I was thinking that too, I'm going to count stairs tomorrow. Anchoress 12:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
The height-depth ratio of the stairs will have a more immediate effect than the softness of the surface. The effects of running on hard surfaces are usually much more long term. The stairmaster probably had a larger height/depth ratio than the concrete stairs you are using comfortably now.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 16:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, the stairs are the same height, but I thought of something else. The wooden staircase stairwells are very well-sealed, they get no fresh air at all, while the concrete ones are fairly open and get lots of fresh air. The wooden staircases don't even have fans, the air in there could be years old lol. I think that may make a difference as to how hard and tiring it seems. Anchoress 10:53, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Mold can cause some problems with oxygen intake. --Zeizmic 14:14, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
No mold. Anchoress 14:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] looking for a book/paper

Hi, I'm looking for a biased book or article or essay (not a student essay) which shows how the field of comparitive religion and how the adoption of pagan symbols into Christianity (e.g. Yule log) diminish the religion/faith and make it more untrue or more mythical (in the bad sense of the word...some Christians would not mind the word mythical used to describe their religion).

Also, looking for a biased book written by a Christian going the other way. Suggesting, perhaps, that all other relgions are shadows of the great beauty of Christianty, and thus it's no wonder that there are similarities in other world religions. And of course pagan symbols are adopted, for two reasons. 1. adoption of pagan symbols furthers the greater goal of conversion and 2. pagan symbols are also misinterpreted shadows of the glory of Christianity, so lets reinterpret them in the light of Jesus.

not looking for these sepcific arguments but if you know of something that'd be great. Just trying to give you an example of what these books might say.

Maybe some Joseph Campbell stuff? Did he have an atheist or a Christan agenda?

Thanks. -Steve

I think the word you want isn't "biased" but "opinionated". Just because one has an opinion does not mean one is necessarily biased. Objectivity does not require neutrality. --24.147.86.187 04:25, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Something like this? I mean this sounds pretty "opinionated":

Leo Schreven and other Seventh-day Adventists should be spanked for even quoting from these Bible trashers

--Justanother 04:34, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Personally I don't believe Campbell had an agenda with regard to Christianity. You could read Hero ... 1000 Faces and draw conclusions either way. If I recall correctly, he considers Jesus something of a mystic but certainly not messiah, an idea which might offend some. At any rate, in your quest you might simply start with something like Saturnalia or Constantine I and follow the links - as religion goes, you'll be hard pressed not to come across myriad opinions running rampant and claiming truth in their wake. Having said that, I think you've set the stage to write your own work on the subject.Wolfgangus 04:45, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I do not know a book wich is biased as per your request, but I always smile at the Christmas carols from England about "The Holly and the Ivy" because they harken back to pagan practices of tree worship and human sacrifice.Edison 05:54, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't know of a book with the bias you are looking for either, but The Barbarian Conversion: From Paganism to Christianity by Richard Fletcher may be of some small use to you. Among other things it explains ways in which early missionaries to northern Europe went about presenting the Christian religion in such a way to make it more likely that the people would be willing to convert. Crypticfirefly 06:31, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
There are various comments from C.S. Lewis to the effect that pagan religions are shadows of the true religion of Christianity. This is from memory, however. I would take a look at 'Mere Christianity' which is often published as a set of essays. I stand corrected if this factually incorrect. Certainly, in Lewis' fiction, the 7th Narnia book has elements which state that followers of the Calormene's worship of Tash would be eligible for the Narnian paradise, and I assume this was similar to Lewis' position. Rob Burbidge 13:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question about Hebrew University (refactored)

hi .. my name is Anna .. im almost 18 .. and im thinking of joining the hebrew university next year ..

i have a question to you .. do [they] have administration and economics subject to study at the university ??

if yes .. could you please tell me what is the least average [GPA?] [they] would accept ?

im looking forward to seeing your answer

[email removed]

thank you

You are on a web page of Wikipedia the free encyclopedia. You may have become confused by our article on the university you are considering applying to. The article on that university may have a link to the university's web site where you can find contact information for them.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 16:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Good point. I stand corrected. --Justanother 16:40, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
This link says what faculties and schools they offer. This link gives the undergraduate admissions requirements. gotta love webpages in languages you can't read (all links are to English versions)—WAvegetarian•(talk) 16:48, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inventions

Dear Wikipedia,

I am curious as to the origin of the humble bell, but I have been unable to find any information on this subject online. Can you help? To when and where can we trace the origin of the bell in human history? What's our earliest evidence for its existence?

Lee Martin

The Catholic Encyclopedia has some information but no conclusions: [1] Rmhermen 17:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Excellent question - looking to China I find this http://www.china.org.cn/english/features/FbiCh/78450.htm probably about the same time as the early Egyptians. So as a guess it seems that bells may have come about as a result of people noticing that their pottery bowls made a ringing sound. (As a side line fine (ie thin) porcelain soup or breakfst bowls make a beautiful sound when struck/tapped - a very clear note and without any of the harshness assoicated with brass bells)

The bell was originally a kind of rattle. In its most primitive form it was made from a nut-shell or of some other hard fruit. Further progress in its construction was marked by the use of hollowed-out pieces of hard wood, and lastly iron. The original form of the bell, as figured by Wood (Lane Fox Collection), is precisely similar to a species of the number of rattles in use among the Maganja tribes. In Dahomey iron bells are found employée par les féticheurs; others are worn by the leader of female watercarriers...Among the people of the Congo an iron double bell, Longa, is carried before princes. "The Ogangas (Ogowe Lake) carry clumsy iron 'magic bells, everywhere a sign of a priest'...The Maoris in New Zealand have a bell, "Pahu," which is used for purposes of war. The Pegu in East India unite twenty bells into one instrument, which is beaten with sticks, "and they make no bad music"...In view of the already mentioned ethnological examples and especially of the Fox Collection, Gardiner opinion "that the bell is of Chinese origin and like the ancient gong was generally made of copper" cannot be maintained.Wallaschek, Richard (1893). Primitive Music: An Inquiry into the Origin and Development of Music, Songs, Instruments, Dances, and Pantomimes of Savage Races, pp. 106-7. 

The Gardiner mentioned who attributes a Chinese origin is: William Gardiner, The Music of Nature, London, 1832.EricR 21:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Eric (or anyone else with access to such books), could you use this to add a history section to the article on Bell (instrument)? Skittle 22:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm a bit dubious about some of that. I've never heard of the Maori having a bell, and - since they did not use metal - I find it very doubtful they ever did. The pahu, IIRC, was a wooden gong. Grutness...wha? 23:02, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Finding Sponsors for Website

Hi, how would I go about finding a paid sponsor for a website that I wanted to create and put up?

I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Develop the site, add content, more content, more content, repeat, acheive popularity, get money. --Justanother 18:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the above. Once you have a site set up, you could try Google Ads found here, or search for other similar services. Skittle 22:51, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
This isn't 1998. People don't want to sponsor websites that don't exist already, generally speaking. --24.147.86.187 04:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
There are loads of free Free web hosting services, where you get an add on your page. DirkvdM 07:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] sandbox

What is the sandbox and how do i use it?

The sandbox is a place to let users experiment and learn about Wikipedia. I think you could basically use it in any way you'd like... 惑乱 分からん 20:24, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
There is a wiki:sandbox page that explains how to use it, including tutorials and how to create a sandbox all of your own. Vespine 21:21, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

First you enter the sandbox and lift your tail... StuRat 07:27, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proportion of drop outs in the US

AT what age do generally students drop out of school in the US? Do people drop out like Jessica Simpson?? Why does the west emphasize on education for the asian community ?

20:18, 30 November 2006 (UTC)~

You are after basic census information, you'll find answers in places like this]. According to the graph near the bottom of that page, about 85 percent of Americans finish high school and about 25% obtain at least a bachelor degree. As to people dropping out like Jessica Simpson, I don't actually know what that means, I'm sure people do but couldn't tell you if it is typical or indicative of anything, similarly to the west emphasizing on education for the Asian community I don't understand what you mean either. If anything I get the impressions Asians emphasize education on Asians in western communities. Vespine 21:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)