Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 December 5

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[edit] December 5

[edit] Peanuts

Hi im the peanut farmer who asked bout storing my peanuts in the forsest. Sum one rubbed out my questin. i have lots of theft from my storeroom so i thot to store my crop in the forast. is that legal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.111.113.185 (talk • contribs)

It would depend upon the laws wherever it is that you farm peanuts and on who owns the forast. -THB 02:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't think your peanuts would be safe in the forest - thieves and wild animals would find them there. --Shuttlebug 02:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Im not sure on the legality of storing them. AS THB says, it could depend on who owns the forest. My concern would be more one of protecting your nuts from attack by wild animals. Squirrels apparently would have a taste for your nuts. --Light current 02:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Light current, peanuts aren't nuts, they're legumes. I assumed they would be stored in proper containers to protect them from bugs and animals. Surely thieves would have more trouble finding them in the forast than in a storeroom known to contain peanuts. I'm not clear on why someone would steal peanuts. They're quite cheap. It would be more lucrative to steal copper or something. -02:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Apparently stealing almonds can be lucrative. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, farmers are getting ripped off left and right in California and across the country--fuel, machinery, crops. Almonds are significantly more expensive than peanuts. -THB 03:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Paying employees (in) peanuts

One suggestion is that you pay your employees (if that's who you suspect of theft), at least partially, in peanuts. For example, you could give them 5 kg of peanuts each a week, and decrease their pay by the cost of those peanuts to you (wholesale cost, not retail). The object here is twofold:

1) To satiate their desire for peanuts, so that they won't feel the need to steal them.

2) To increase their perceived pay, as they think of the value of peanuts as the retail price, which is much greater than the price you pay for them.

You could also increase security, by hiring guards, etc., but that can be quite expensive, and the guards might steal peanuts, too.

As for the legal issues, I would think those peanuts would be legally considered to be "abandoned", and therefore anyone who found them could take them. Also, the police might wonder what you are up to, and suspect you of smuggling drugs. StuRat 06:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

What does that say about your employees if you pay them peanuts? 8-)--Light current 07:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure they will never forget this gesture (especially compared with the other gestures you might have made when finding out they were stealing from you). StuRat 07:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

StuRat, I don't think you should be giving legal advice about abandoned property, as that would vary by location, and we don't even know where the OP is, except that he is on a farm and there is a forsest nearby. I think the OP should contact a lawyer specializing in property issues. The lawyer could help with the trespass issues as well. -THB 07:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Can you think of any jurisdiction where leaving sacks of peanuts in the forest wouldn't constitute abandonment ? StuRat 09:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I just couldn't comment as I am not a lawyer. -THB 16:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The above idea about paying employees in peanuts is how a few companies operate. It may work for the OP. Jack Daniels gives its employees a free fifth every quarter or some such thing. From what I hear, Hershey's Chocolate lets the employees take chocolate. And I've known several people who have worked for Ben & Jerry's who got free pints of ice cream. Something like 2 pints a day. Dismas|^(talk) 08:27, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think I would recommend giving away liquor at work, that could have undesired consequences. StuRat 10:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Wal-mart apparently pays their workers peanuts. They're going to give them a shirt every five years now that they've capped wages. -THB 15:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

There are legends that trolls are fond of peanuts. There should be a Ref Desk for trolls where questions like this could be asked. Edison 15:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I did not know that peanuts were native to Scandinavia. Perhaps the original question-poster could clarify the location of the peanut farm near the forast. -THB 16:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It in calhoun county

Which Calhoun County? There are eleven. -THB 20:46, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Risk versus reward

If storing peanuts in the forest makes sense to you, then do it. However, you should be psychologically prepared to have them confisicated, by police, squirrels, or anyone else that wanders upon your cache. Theavatar3 17:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

If he buries them underground in the forsest, they will be safer. -THB 17:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Where are the Serious Q&A Only Police when you need them?Edison 20:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] sheet music

where can i find sheet music for a beginner/int. guitarist, actual free sheet music, i dont care what it is thanks

sheetmusic.org ~~snak3

mudcat.org --Shuttlebug 02:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

sibeliusmusic.com has a few free examples, but the majority is not. bibliomaniac 1 5 02:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

If you don't live in too much of a rural area, you probably have a 'brick and mortar' instruments and sheet music store in your vicinity. And since it won't take any shipping costs it will be considerably cheaper than buying online.- Mgm|^(talk) 11:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Does it have to be guitar tabs (is that the right word?) or can it be just chords? eg. Gm=G minor? You will find a lot of guitar chords, comme ca, on "normal" music.martianlostinspace 16:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmm...basically google "guitar tabs" and you should find plenty of useful sheet music of various difficulties and genres. If you do not know what tabs are then feel free to contact me here as I would be glad to help. — Seadog 04:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV tags

Not sure I'm asking this in the right place. If not, I apologise. Having read WP:NPOV and related pages through again, I see that it is expected that use of the {{POV}} tag is accompanied by a reasonably full explanation on the talk page of the article. I was wondering is there any concensus that such tags can be removed if no explanation is given (or it is only a very basic ie. "I disagree" comment is made without citing problem areas and explaining the discrepancy)? There is a huge backlog of tags which undermine articles. Many seem to just be added when someone reads the topic which does not support their own POV on the subject. Thanks. WJBscribe 01:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Not sure about this one, but I remember reading somewhere that it can be. As a general rule, if you add a tag, you should say why on the talk page. --Wo o ty Woot? contribs 01:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

This isn't the right place for this topic (you might want WT:NPOV) but it seems easier to just answer than try moving it. Like many questions about editing, this is a judgment call. Tags with little or no explanation would generally be safe to remove. When in doubt, explain yourself well on the talk page and you should be fine. Friday (talk) 02:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I will ask at WT:NPOV. WJBscribe 02:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

This may be better on the Help desk--Light current 02:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I leave POV tags even if no explanation is given if it's obvious. I think the duty to inform potentially naive users is more important than some technicality. -THB 02:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It is sufficient, perhaps even preferred, to give a reason for removing POV tags and the like in the edit history. If you go to a talk page to discuss your change, you will appear to be inconfident in the eyes of others. And if you inconfident in your edit, do not make it at all. Theavatar3 17:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

On the contrary, I would say (particularly if the template was added by an anon who is unlikely to come back and see any questions you ask) take bold action if you feel it is probably needed, but make it very clear what you have done and why in the history and talk page. If you ask first in the talk pages of many articles, months will go by with no reply and no action. If you take action and consensus deems it wrong, people won't take it badly if they see your reasoning. If someone reverts you, but you made a positive edit, there is a trail of reason for others to follow and potentially restore your edit. Skittle 23:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] edits

Just out of curiousity, how many edits per second (or minutes) are in the recent changes (including new user accounts, deletion logs etc.)--PrestonH 05:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

This site claims that in January Wikipedia was updated 4,223 times per hour and 110 new users were registered every hour. Thus, it may be safe to estimate 4,500 total events per hour, which is 1.25 per second. –mysid ☎ 11:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Interesting, I thought it would have been much more. But I guess that goes with the info I found some time ago that that would indicate that most edits are made by what is now maybe 1000 editors and if you figure how many of them are active in any given hour and how many actual constructive edits are made (most articles being fairly stable). Also, my guess is about 75% of edits are very minor or maintenance, vandalism, or repairing vandalizsm. --Justanother 12:40, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Looking at the time stamps at Special:Recentchanges will give you a better idea of what's going on.--Shantavira 13:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Of course, some large percentage of the edits are school kids vandalizing Wiki during study hall. An RCPer's work is never done!

Atlant 17:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] pal 4 chat

Is there any scope 4 chat in wikipedia..? if so give me the links in detail or directly..? Temuzion 06:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

No. Wikipedia is not a social networking site. Unless you mean a "chat room" like Wikipedia's IRC? --Wo o ty Woot? contribs 06:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely none.--Light current 06:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

What about WP:PUMP and IRC? Anchoress 06:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Thats serious discussion 8-(--Light current 07:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

AFAIK this desk is the closest you'll get to a Wikipedia chat (even though it shouldn't really be used for that purpose), plus you'll learn something every day! However, you might like to browse the Wikipedia Fun department for further ideas.--Shantavira 09:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually the pump looked to be a little less formal than the RDs when I lookd last. IRC i cant get into it/dont understand it--Light current 15:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Depends on topic. See on some popular topics, you see templates at the top of talk pages - limiting the scope of the topic.martianlostinspace 16:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

eg. Talk:Microsoft martianlostinspace 16:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Those templates are only clarifying the existing rules on talk pages that have a history of violating them. All talk pages are for discussion to improve the article (or ask questions about the topic that are not answered in the article, so people can include them in the article). You're not supposed to be chatting about the topic generally on any talk pages. Skittle 23:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't understand the concept of that village pump & IRC...what's this all..? Temuzion 08:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Check out this page: WP:IRC. ---J.S ^(T/C) 03:19, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leaving Wikipedia due to death threats

How many people per annum leave WP due to so called 'credible' death threats? Ive just been astonished to find someone admitting to this action.--Light current 06:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

They admitted leaving because of a death threat or they admitted making a death threat to cause someone to leave? -THB 07:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

No leaving of course!--Light current 08:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It's extremely rare, as there are all sorts of checks and balances that can be invoked before a dispute gets that bad. Unfortunately, I guess some users might not know that, or not know where to ask for help.--Shantavira 09:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Some of the questions - and not a few of the responses, are enough to bore a person to death.

Yeah esp mine! 8-)--Light current 14:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I suppose, death threats are so extreme that they might be too scared to stay to tell anybody. That way, it's difficult to tell.martianlostinspace 16:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Like, say, if you were a publisher of The Satanic Verses? Vespine 22:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CSI:Crime Scene Investigation: Built To Kill, Part 2

Our article on the episode and several other places are unclear about this. What is the significance of the doll picture on the back of the miniature portrait? Is this ever addressed again? Grissom appeared to have an aha moment, but for me it was a very confusing ending. - Mgm|^(talk) 12:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Aha, a glance through the upcoming episodes indicate I have to wait for Post Mortem (CSI episode) to show. - Mgm|^(talk) 13:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] search on user

Hi, Can you search the work and articles submitted by one specific user? Can you search the work of a user i e.g. Norway from the English page? br Iris Frøybu 14:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

There is a "User Contributions" link on every user page - that'd be the way to do it. --Tagishsimon (talk)

I don't understand the second part of your question. If you are referring to the Norwegian and English Wikipedias, a contributor would need a separate user account for each. They might or might not use the same user name (or IP address) for each account, so it could be difficult to associate their contributions on each Wikipedia.--Shantavira 15:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I think he means "Can you search within the works of only one user?". If I'm right in that interpretation, I think the answer's no.martianlostinspace 16:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

To integrate the above (for my own clarity, too:)):

(From martianlostinspace) You cannot do a search for keywords in the contributions that a specific user has made (i.e. you cannot do a search by username), but
(from Tagishsimon) you can get a list of the work and article edits made by a user by going to her user page, and clicking on the "User contributions" link found inside the "Toolbox" on the left. From there on you would have to click on every entry and read it to see what it was.
(From Shantavira) You cannot search the Norwegian language Wikipedia (nor any other language Wikipedia) from within the English one, you have to actually browse to the Norwegian Wikipedia pages (Norwegian Wikipedia (Bokmål)or Norwegian Wikipedia (Nynorsk)to do that.
The user you are searching for can have a different username on every Wikipedia that she belongs to.

Is the above correct? -- Seejyb 18:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yup. And you could download copies of any and all wikipedias and knit your own search engine, but you'll have to have considerable coding-fu to be able to do this. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Users can also have multiple usernames and no username at all. -THB 19:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to all of you for clarifying responses. br Iris

[edit] admission

Hi! i am looking for admission in any school or college in ontario. I have been in canada for two years,living in Quebec since then. but recently I have moved to ontario. and I am facing many problems in understandinG Ontario's educational system as it is way different from Quebec's. I am over 19, and i still do not have high school diploma. it is because Quebec demands French Sec-5 (equivalent of grade 12) too. so i had to start all over. And now as i have moved, and i no more need any french credits, Could anyone please suggest me what is procedure of admission for a student like me, who needs admission in the mid-stream of course. and what college or school should I approach. I am intented to take business stream. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.52.19.232 (talk • contribs)

I live in Ontario, have kids going to university here, and have no clue what you are talking about. I hope somebody else does, or else you will have to do more work by yourself, such as talking to various admission officers for the colleges and universities. --Zeizmic 16:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

In the unusual situation you're in, Zeizmic is giving excellent advice. Talk to the admissions people at a couple of the schools you'd like to go to. You may be the same questioner who asked about not having a high-school diploma a while ago. Canada appears to have GEDs. -THB 16:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Please don't take offence at this, but is English your native language? If it isn't, you haven't got far to go, from what I can see in you question. But I would suggest you brush up on some of your English grammar - things like the letter "I" always being a capital letter when it is used as a word by itself. If you did, you might vastly improve your chances of being accepted.martianlostinspace 16:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC) And by the way, it isn't too bad. I've seen a lot, lot worse!martianlostinspace 16:42, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, if you aren't a Canadian citizen, that's an issue the admissions office would need to know about. I'm not sure how it works in Canada, but in the US, you would likely need to obtain a student visa to be allowed to stay in the country while in college. Also, you can probably expect to pay more for college than native Canadians. Your English might be good enough, as is, for a Math/Science/Engineering course of study, but not for a major in English Lit, for example. So, you may, or may not, need to improve your English skills first, depending on your intended major. StuRat 16:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Zeizmic, do not be discouraged by martian's remarks.

It is no wonder that English visitors are often treated brusquely by the French. Theavatar3 17:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

??? Zeizmic is not the OP. How do the French enter the picture? --Lambiam ^Talk 06:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

any 1 tats read some postz in da internet nows how bad laik english canget u now?

waddup -THB 19:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2006 November 24#Education in Ontario. If you give some feedback on the replies, or in general include all relevant information, it may help to find a good answer. --Lambiam ^Talk 06:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't mean to offend him/her: if I did, I'm sorry, but I think it was a valid comment. I also asked them not to be.martianlostinspace 18:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Telling someone not to be offended before insulting them makes it worse, not better! -THB 18:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Worldly newspapers

Hallo! For a market research I need to know how many copies of newspapers are printed daily (or per year) in the world.

Thank you for your answer.

Regards,

Rosa —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.174.59.26 (talk • contribs)

Start with Newspaper. It's a difficult figure to pin down as there are so many newspapers in the world. In addition, many newspapers have internet editions. Do you count unique viewers of those editions? -THB 16:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

That's as good as guessing. Can you try and limit it, to say - English language, daily or by country?martianlostinspace 18:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Volcanoes

Does anyone know of places in America and Mexico where volcanoes erupted and destroyed the land that was once maybe forests but now just barren (or changed the land), like it did in the Virgin Valley in Nevada?

Do you mean recently, like Mount St. Helens? -THB 19:40, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

From Yellowstone National Park: "Yellowstone has registered three major volcanic eruption events in the last 2.2 million years with the last event occurring 640,000 years ago. Its eruptions are the largest known to have occurred on Earth within that timeframe, producing drastic climate change in the aftermath". Gandalf61 20:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Kilauea. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Our supervolcano#Known_eruptions article section lists 5 major supervolcano eruptions in what is now the United States, but none in what is now Mexico. StuRat 12:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Think of England

Warning: People who watch Stargate Atlantis, haven't seen ep 3x11, and care about small spoilers, shouldn't read on.

A cultural question; in a recent Atlantis episode, replicators had taken over Atlantis, and were taking information from a character by means of inserting their hands in foreheads, and extracting it directly from peoples' minds. When one asked "How was I supposed to resist that?", another, an American General replied, "Well, I like to close my eyes and think of England". What I'm wondering is... what did he mean by this? When Americans are in pain do they like to think of medieval churches? Or is there some level of cultural allusion that I'm missing? I'm English, so it was a bit of a surprise (I might have expected something like 'Close my eyes and think of Minnesota', since it was his home, but England was a surprising thing to stick on the end). --Mnem e son 20:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

You are English? Male, I imagine! It was traditionally the advice that maters are alleged to have given to well brought up 'gels' just before their wedding night; Well, my dear, just lie back and think of England. I hope that helps. Clio the Muse 20:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Haha, it's even in Wikipedia: Lie back and think of England -sthomson 21:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Good grief! Is there anything that Wikipedia does not have? Clio the Muse 00:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

No. That's the whole point of WP. JackofOz 01:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps a List of product placements in Video Games... such as Mentos in FFXII:P Crisco 1492 06:47, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

If you had known my ex-wife, you would agree that thinking of any country - including Afghanistan with its women under the Taliban and the Burkha, would have been infinitely preferable. As to thinking of England - my home country, I would not have insulted it by associating it with my ex-wife.

[edit] Rectus abdominis - Getting a six-pack

What diet and exercise would be appropriate to define the abs? Thanks --Weird question? 20:38, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Try an ablounge and weightwatchers, they have great results. If you don't have the money, just do situps and other exercises for at least a half an hour a day. Remember to always eat your small snacks between meals (fruits) and make sure you have a lot of different colors of foods on your plate (and i don't mean candy). hope this helps, oh and remember to stretch!

Almost everyone already has a six pack! It is just covered over by body fat. Doing crunches will help if you have a low body fat percentage, but according to Men's Health you need to be at about 5%-10% to get definition. So, if you're already really skinny do crunches. Otherwise, cardio, cardio, cardio. You'll need to do at least 45-60 min a day, 5-7 days per week, for at least a month to start getting results. Then depending on your size it could take as long as six months to "get a six pack". It's not easy. Also, watching what you eat will help. And remember, building muscle and losing fat at the same time is difficult without paying attention to diet. Increase protein, decrease calories for carbohydrates and fats. The healthiest way to lose weights is 1 lb a week. Which means you need to burn 500 Calories a day. Good luck! --Cody.Pope 19:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to give a brutally honest answer; there are three ways to improve the tone of your six-pack:

swimming
walking
you-know-what

Of course cycling, skiing, jogging, skating, playing any sort of sport or doing anything outside will likely help. Mathiemood 16:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] wii searchingf

what is a good website that could help me to find the wii?

google.com. Friday (talk) 21:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Find is as in find a store that has it in stock?? Well, google will not help much there as the unit is probably selling out as soon as it comes in. I passed a Best Buy the night before it was released and people were camped out to buy it (I had never heard of it before asking them what they were camped for and it really threw me that they said thay were waiting for a WEEEEE). You can find it on eBay, of course. Otherwise call around to every electronics store in your area or wait til after Christmas. --Justanother 22:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

refreshthing.com

If Google doesn't do it, try froogle. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

If you want to chance throwing $6.50 down the toilet, there is this site. Who knows. If you do then please let us know how it works out. --Justanother 05:39, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gold, Diamonds, and Gems

What are the forces that come together to create gold, diamonds, and gems? I believe gold is created from sand and water but what else?

Gold is an element found in the earth's crust. See Diamonds#Formation for info on diamond formation. The articles on individual other gems may include sections on how they are formed. Friday (talk) 21:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Gold is made from sand and water, diamonds are solidified fairy dust and other gems are fossils of angel tears. sorry couldn't help it;)I'd go with the above.Vespine 21:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

See alchemy and philosopher's stone also. --Justanother 22:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

There are Apache's tears ... User:Zoe|(talk) 03:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if the original poster thought "gold is created from sand and water" because they knew about panning for gold (see placer mining). What's actually going on there is that in some places sand can have tiny amounts of gold mixed in with it, and water is used to help separate it out. --Anonymous, 05:45 UTC, December 6.

In case you are wondering, gold, as well as other heavy elements, was primarily created in supernova explosions before the formation of our solar system. Thus, gold then became part of the cloud from which the Earth was formed, and, by various geologic processes, accumulated in certain areas after the Earth formed. StuRat 12:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually new research show some bacteria shits gold, which is one of the explainations for gold dust in rivers. Joneleth 18:47, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but excretion of gold can only take place if the microbes have already ingested it - the gold isn't made there, it simply 'passes through' them. See the middle of this science paper for a bit more info on that. Inner Earth 20:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] magneto

This is more of a technical than a science question so I'm asking it here. How does grounding the primary of a magneto shut down the secondary (the high voltage winding part that send the spark) when the other end of the primary is already grounded and when the the power comes from the magnets on the flywheel rotating past the magneto core? 71.100.6.152 21:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't be sure whether you are asking about a transformer, a generator, or an induction coil. Please elaborate. If you ground both ends of the primary, whatever the device, that will constitute a shorting out of the winding, which is not the case if only one end of the primary is grounded. With one winding of a transformer shorted out, it will tend to collapse the voltage on another tightly coupled winding. But I can't quite be sure what you are talking about with primary, secondary, and flywheel with magnets. Edison 01:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Edison, he is referring to a magneto, which is the ignition system on most small engines like lawn mower engines. --Justanother 01:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes Edison that is correct. I am refering to an ignition magneto coil. If your answer is still applicable then that would explain why a primary that is grounded at one end will allow the secondary to function as the source of ignition current but prevent the secondary coil from firing if both ends of the primary are grounded. Although magnetos are suppose to be very reliable I can see then how say in an airplane one might not want to use a magneto with a primary if that is possible. 71.100.6.152 05:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, small piston-powered aircraft have not one but two independant (redundant) magneto igition systems. On pre-takeoff runup you check each individually and then fly with both. This site shows an electronic replacement for magnetos. Back in the day, any racecar or hot rod worth anything had Mallory magneto ignition[1], too. --Justanother 05:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it's fine to post such a question on the Science Ref Desk, as engineering is basically "applied science". StuRat 12:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the "shorted primary" will cause most of the electricity generated by the magneto to take the easy path (through the shorted primary) rather than the difficult path (through the spark plug), hence, no spark.

Atlant 13:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

A shorted winding on a transformer, or even a turn to turn short, will in general cause the other windings to look like they are shorted as well when AC voltage is applied to them, because of the tight coupling between windings due to the common ferrous core they are wound on. Edison 15:28, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I thought that grounding the primary windings causes the induced current in the secondary windings to collapse and the current in the secondary is what takes the difficult path, hence, yes spark. But I am notoriously weak on electricity and am not sure of the mechanics of it; I mean is there an actual current in the secondary prior to collapse or only some sort of potential and why can't it just quietly go back to where it came from (the ether? - joke) instead of making that big leap. PS: remember we are talking DC current here if that makes any difference. --Justanother 22:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

A permanently-shorted primary is, of course, a different situation than an intermittently-shorted primary.

Atlant 12:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

In the case of an ignition magneto the current through both windings is generated by the magnet(s) exciting the core rather than a current through the primary exciting the core and the core exciting the secondary. It makes sense that by ground the primary at both ends the magnatism of the core is draind by the primary being shorted before it can excite the secondary. Correct me if I'm wrong. Adaptron 04:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Names and what they mean

how does the sorority community come up with all the different names and what they mean for that Faternity or communitty?

I'm just going to point you to fraternity, sorority and greek alphabet. -- 23:16, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps someone here knows if there is some meaning given to the letters chosen as a general rule? For example, Phi Beta Kappa Society got its greek initials from

Phi Beta Kappa (ΦΒΚ) stands for Φιλοσοφία Βιοῦ Κυβερνήτης or philosophia biou kubernetes — "Love of wisdom, the guide of life."

--Justanother 01:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I've seen examples of social fraternities & sororities where there is a motto with those initials (like ΦΒΚ). A member of Kappa Alpha Theta told me those letters stand for something in Greek & wondered about the accuracy of the translation. But the motto is considered secret, so she couldn't divulge it. My impression is that most Greek letter organizations have some phrase (or series of nouns) in mind. Wareh 03:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Following up to an "identify this city" request

Homyel, Belarus

Came across this image while clearing out Category:Flickr images needing human review and thought it looked suspiciously like a photo of a mystery city that was posted here a little while ago. The OP wanted help in identifying where it might be. Unfortunately, I was unable to find the original question in the archives (most likely because it wasn't answered), so I'm posting here. The city in question appears to be Homyel, Belarus. If anyone remembers who originally asked it, perhaps you could contact them. Thanks. howch e ng {chat} 22:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Someone found the answer by Googling "Mystery City", I think it was Moscow. Unfortunately every city in the world looks like every other one these days. -22:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Eastern European cities certainly don't look like American ones. Compare Moscow to Ashville, North Carolina. -- Mwalcoff 02:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

They should make cameras with GPS, so they could put the location of the shot in the metadata as well as the date and time. Neon Merlin 23:46, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Good idea! I am sure that one is not far off. --Justanother 23:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

They are here already. Search for "camera +gps" to find models and reviews. -- Seejyb 01:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Here's the archived question and discussiojn. As stated above, it turned out to be Moscow -- and identifying the picture was the subject of some sort of informal competition. Here's the web page that was linked to earlier, giving the answer and making clear that this is one of a series of competitions. --Anonymous, 06:06:06 UTC, 2006-12-06.

[edit] Reporting a deceptive eBay listing

An eBay listing is described in one of the grey-box attributes as shipping worldwide, but the description states that it only ships within the United States. As a Canadian, I hate it when web site offers turn out not to apply to me because some idiot assumed a website or magazine was only read within the States (and I think they should be required to put in a disclaimer). But it's even worse when a listing is shown on the Canadian edition of a website, and intolerable when it says it ships to my country and then doesn't. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to fit into any of the categories eBay provides for complaints. How should I report it? I've already written to the seller, but I'm not sure I can count on him to answer (especially since the listing closes in two days). Neon Merlin 23:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Why not ask him for his reasoning? I have sold lots of stuff on eBay and sold all over the world. On a number of occasions a Canadian buyer has maintained a US address, say in Detroit, if they live near there, to avoid duties and additional postage. Perhaps he is shooting for those buyers. IMO, he is clear in the auction text about US addresses only and seems to have phrased it as politely as possible. I am sure that you have experienced cases where that was not the case, perhaps? Re reporting, you are right, there are no appropriate reporting categories. You can report it under miscategorized items if you think it needs to be reported; perhaps eBay will send him a warning. --Justanother 23:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the text states it only ships to the US, once you get down to the end. But what one sees first is the first screen, where the grey box clearly states, "Ships to: Worldwide." If it doesn't ship worldwide, it shouldn't claim to in the grey box, and it shouldn't be specifically set up to appear on non-US editions of eBay. This is at best negligent and inconsiderate, and at worst a bait and switch. If I worked at eBay, I wouldn't let that seller off with a warning, I'd immediately change all their listings to "Ships to: United States" and tell them they'd have to sort out which ones shipped worldwide and which ones didn't. I'd also warn all bidders and tell them they could retract their bids if necessary. And if it happened again, I'd suspend their account. Neon Merlin 00:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

eBay justice is very slow and rather ineffective. This is really a pretty mild infraction (which is why there is even no way to report it) and, at best, he would get a warning but existing auctions would not be affected. Bidders are NEVER informed of eBay justice unless eBay pulls the auction in which case you get a notification that the auction was pulled but not why. I pasted one below.

SB NOTICE: eBay Auction XXXX Cancelled - Results Null and Void

Hello XXXX

The following is a courtesy notice from eBay Trust & Safety regarding:

Item Number - XXXX Item Title - XXXX

Our records show that you bid on this listing. We have removed the listing from eBay because it violated eBay policy. You are not required to complete the transaction. The seller is free to relist the item in accordance with eBay's online policies. If the seller relists the item, you are free to bid on that item.

For more information on eBay policies please visit:

http://www.ebay.com/help/policies/hub.html

If you have additional questions, please use the "Contact Us" link found on eBay Help pages.