Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 September 2

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[edit] September 2

[edit] word-to-morpheme ratio

okay, so if a language has a word-to-morpheme ratio of, like, 1-10 its polysynthetic. 1-5 is synthetic. 1-1 is analytical. (the ratios are hypothetical) anyway my question is could there (in theory) be a language with a word-to-morpheme ratio of 2-1? Is there a linguistic definition of word? Idon'texist 02:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Our Word article gives the following definition:
A word is a unit of language that carries meaning and consists of one or more morphemes which are linked more or less tightly together, and has a phonetical value.
(my emphasis) According to this definition, the word-to-morpheme ratio is at most 1 to 1.  --Lambiam 07:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes multi-word idoms of unpredictable meaning ("kick the bucket" etc.) are considered to be single lexemes -- but not single morphemes. AnonMoos 2 September 2007 (UTC)

There are different kinds of words, though. I can't imagine a lexical word consisting of less than a morpheme, but a phonological word might. Sometimes you encounter monomorphemic words (often proper nouns) that behave phonologically as if they were compounds (which they often are etymologically but not synchronically); these are called pseudocompounds. I can't think of an example off the top of my head now, but there are certain consonant clusters that can only occur at the edges of phonological words; if you have a pseudocompound with such a cluster in the middle of it, then a case could be made that you have a single morpheme spread across two phonological words. However, it will still be a single lexical word. —Angr 13:25, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
BTW, 1-1 can still be synthetic, e.g. Dinka which has primarily monosyllables for words, but which still manages to mark plural, case, and 2 different construct states with that one syllable, using 3 vowel lengths, breathiness and tone. It would a little challenging to learn, methinks. Drmaik 05:08, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

so the concensus is "no. its not possible." sorry i didn't check out the "word" article. i think i'll blame that on the paint fumes. Idon'texist 01:28, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help contacting a person whose web site is in Chinese

I'm trying to fix a device and I have found the instructions to fix it in on a chinese page. After using a free web translation service, I managed to follow the instructions, although I would like to ask the author where I can get a firmware that I could use. Doing further search, I believe he is the icam forum user on this page, but I do not know how to navigate through that page, since it is in Chinese, to send him a private message or send him an email. Can anyone help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fistanes (talk • contribs) 09:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

The forum post say that the firmware is pretty much generic (heck, even I own one of those... stupid mass-produced crap), and that someone had flashed it with another brand's firmware and it works. I don't know what's your brand but the one that's mentioned can be downloaded here. --antilivedT | C | G 22:49, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "bildungsromane"

Is it plural of 'bildungsroman'? What is 'bildungsdee'? What is 'bildungsheld'? -- aruna —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.94.6 (talk) 10:42, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, a bildungsroman is "a novel of personal development", so bildungsromane would be the genre as a whole. See Wiki:Bildungsroman. Never heard of bildungsdee, or variations thereof, but "bildungsheld" is the hero/protagonist of the bildungsroman. --Micheals 12:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
There is a word Bildungsidee, though I can't find a definition of it. Strad 21:01, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, 'romane' is the pl. of 'roman'. You probably mean 'bildungsidee'. The German word 'idee' means 'idea' Classicalclarinet 05:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

If you use the German plural (instead of bildungsromans), I feel you should also follow the German convention of capitalizing the first letter of nouns – something I'd do anyway with an unfamiliar word like Bildungsheld, not commonly listed in English dictionaries.  --Lambiam 07:29, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gemini by Michel Tournier

i would like to know the significance of the Zen garden in the nove. also, what is the connection between the weather and twins?210.211.218.32 12:01, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

On the second part of your question, Salman Rushdie said of Gemini: "In addition to playing with such traditional oppositions as heterosexuality and homosexuality, city and countryside, heaven and hell, Tournier elaborates ingeniously on the profound opposition of chronology and meteorology — the fixed, regulated march of the hours on the one hand, and the wild, unpredictable fluctuation of the seasons on the other." Xn4 18:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ISO 639

Is there no ISO code for Basic English? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonjaaa (talk • contribs) 12:16, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

If there is, it's going to be hyphenated ("En-basic", or whatever), not a completely different code. AnonMoos 12:29, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
It's not a real language. --Nricardo 16:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes it is. It adheres to a specific grammar and set of vocabulary that differs greatly from standard English. It's definitely a different language.--Sonjaaa 21:35, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Actually, real professional linguists have never really been excessively impressed with Basic English, since it appears to be English simplified by means of an arbitrary restriction on vocabulary, but not meaningfully simplified in other respects, and vocabulary is only one part of learning a language (not always the greatest difficulty). In any case, what comes after the hyphen is fairly free-form (see IETF language tag), so I don't know of anything that would prevent you from using "en-basic"... AnonMoos 03:29, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

there is a single code covering all constructed languages: "art". dab (𒁳) 18:47, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but Basic English is not a constructed language. It's an version of a natural one. I'd say that using that code for Basic English sort of defeats the purpose of a code at all. SaveThePoint 21:45, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I consider Basic English a constructed language, and so does our article. An appropriate language tag would then be art-basicenglish.  --Lambiam 07:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Unless there's a culture that speaks proscriptive Basic English natively, I'd say it's a conlang rather than a natural language. -Paul D. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.29.16.127 (talk) 14:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] French Numbers

My mother-in-law purchased my son a play-remote. When you press the numbers, it says what number you pressed. You can listen in English, Spanish and French. When in French, it says (I don't know the proper spelling) "Un, Deux, Trois, Quatre, Fuck". I though 5 was Cinq. Is there some pronunciation of 5 in French that sounds nearly identical to "Fuck" or should I have her return the remote for an untainted one? -- Kainaw(what?) 23:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

No, no there isn't a pronunciation of "cinq" that sounds anything remotely like "fuck." (There is one word in French that does sound like fuck, but five isn't it.) I'd be taking that one back to the store. - Eron Talk 01:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

The quality of the remote has probably been breeched. It is possible that the quality of the speaker on the remote has cut out the high frequency energy in the sound. That would confuse the [s]/[f] between cinq and fuck. It might also be easy to miss the nasalised [a], leaving you with a nasty sounding English word. Conclusion: it's probably not a deliberate attempt to corrupt your child, but it's a poorly constructed toy. Get your money back. MWL130.56.65.24 01:29, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't stop laughing, I'll buy it off of you, how much do you want for it? Capuchin 09:25, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Does it have French letters as well as French numbers? :) DuncanHill 09:26, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
What does it say when you press '69'? DirkvdM 10:16, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I just figured out what Dirk's point was there. Transatlantic humor translation: in American usage 69 (sex position) is named in English; in British usage it is named in French. (Probably an oversimplification.) --Anonymous, 13:20 UTC, September 4, 2007.

This has happened before. http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ/MGArticle/WSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149191336363 69.201.141.45 12:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Since I only had 1 year of high-school French (and all I learned was "Je ne parle pas Francais"), I wasn't sure if it was me or the toy. I'm going to tell her to take it back and see if any of the other remotes are closer to saying "cinq". If she wants to sell it, I'll have her drop a note on your talk page, Capuchin. -- Kainaw(what?) 19:11, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Three French cats went out in a boat. The boat turned over and un, deux, trois cats sank. —Angr 19:19, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

That's terrible! (And I don't just mean 'cos of the tragedy...) —Steve Summit (talk) 01:39, 7 September 2007 (UTC)