From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Language desk
< July 18	<< Jun | July | Aug >>	July 20 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

Contents 1 July 19 1.1 View Korean Text 1.2 Middle Icelandic 1.3 Brazilian Ministry and language fluency 1.4 Reaiah -Origin 1.5 French pronunciation of Joachim

[edit] July 19

[edit] View Korean Text

How do I make my computer view Korean text? I tried it and all it shows are question marks--although it does translate on Babel fish still. --JDitto 05:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

You probably need a font that includes Korean characters installed on your computer. —Angr 05:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

It depends on which operating system and web browser you're using. If you search for "Korean computer font" on Google, you should be able to find the right instructions for your setup. --Reuben 06:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

see also Help:Special characters --dab (𒁳) 06:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

First of all, you need fonts, then you need a browser that supports mixed languages. (I've heard that Japanese versions of Internet Explorer sometimes choke with Korean characters if the language isn't specified.) If you're on Windows XP, check your regional settings to add East Asian font support, then try to see if you can read the following:

• Korean language specified: 한글
• Korean language not specified: 한글

You should have no problems with the first, providing you have font support. If you're not using Windows, check out Un Fonts. http://kldp.net/projects/unfonts/ If you're using Debian/Ubuntu, install the ttf-unfonts package. --Kjoonlee 12:10, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Middle Icelandic

this is from Loth, Agnete, Late medieval Icelandic romances (1962)[1]:

Knutur tekur sier nu elld ok geck til dyngiu krakunar. Ok rubbar henni upp allri. finnur hann eggit. Ok lætur þat koma j posa kellingar. nidri under dyngiunni fann hann iard hus. þar laa fyrir ormur einn. hann bles þegar eitri. ok sakadi Knut ecke. fyrer taufrum kellingar. Ormurinn flo ut um glugginn. Gull mikit ok gersemar uar þar. hann fyllde upp vgsa hornit. tok hann þat af gullinv sem honum likade. Vennde hann sidan j burtu. kemur hann nv til nöckuans. Og rær sidan at lande. Enn er kemur aa uatnit. þaa kemur ormurinn upp ur vatninu. med gapannda munni. Ok legzt at nöckuanum. ok lagde bægslit upp aa bardit. Knutur þreif kylfvna ok keyrde aa naser orminum. Enn hann dro nöckuann j kaf med sier. En Knutur hliop aa bak drekanum. Ok spennte vm halsinn. Ok foru þeir suo þangat til at skamt uar til landz. tok hann þaa j posa kellingar. ok saade yfer drekan. Og uard hann þaa suo matt dreginn at hann söck j uatnit.

This is Middle Icelandic in non-normalized spelling, and I find it a bit difficult to tackle with Old Icelandic dictionaries. It's a fantastic tale of one Knut finding a dragon's hoard. He is attacked by the dragon on his way back in his boat and somehow wrestles with it. Is somebody able to give a translation? In particular,

Knutur tekur sier nu elld ok geck til dyngiu krakunar. Ok rubbar henni upp allri. "Knut takes a brand(?) and goes to the ravens'(?) nest(?)"

Ok legzt at nöckuanum. ok lagde baegslit upp aa bardit. "and it reached(?) the boat and lay its belly(?) on the prow(?)"

posa kellingar "the old woman's(?) bag(?)"

uard hann þaa suo matt dreginn at hann söck j uatnit. "in this way(?) it was dragged(?) to the water and sank"

In particular, I am intrigued by the word baegslit. I cannot figure out what it is composed of. It occurs in the Völsunga saga where it apparently refers to the dragon's underbelly. Maybe the author of this tale has taken the word from there, but figuring in a respactable text like the Völsunga saga, you'd expect it in the Old Norse dictionaries. dab (𒁳) 07:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh, it is, and this is indeed a weird and wonderful word. [2][3] Non-normalized texts are tricky, your translation is actually pretty close to the mark. Haukur 08:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

So which lemma on that scanned page corresponds to bægslit?  --Lambiam 14:34, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

BÆXL. The -it ending represents the definitive article. Haukur 14:42, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Brazilian Ministry and language fluency

Does the Brazilian Minister of Sport (Ministro do Esporte Orlando Silva Jr) speak English and Spanish as well as Portuguese?

Are Brazilian Ministry cabinet (Ministério) required to be fluent in more than one language?

AnnickSweden 09:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)AnnickSweden

I do not know for certain the answers to your questions, so perhaps I will be corrected by someone who does. As for whether Mr. Silva speaks English and Spanish, it seems likely that he speaks at least Spanish, since according to his official biography he is involved in several pan-American organizations. He was also involved in the World Federation of Democratic Youth, whose main language seems to be English, but their website also gives their name in Spanish, so it may be that he did not need English to take part. Considering that he has a university education and was involved in international organizations, though, it seems likely that he knows some English and Spanish, even if he is not fluent. As for whether Brazilian ministers are required to be fluent in any language other than Portuguese, I very much doubt this. Virtually all Brazilians speak Portuguese, and most Brazilian ministers would not need to communicate on a regular basis with foreigners. Brazil is not part of an organization like the European Union that involves frequent meetings among ministers from different countries. While some Brazilian ministers may speak Spanish or English, I very much doubt that any foreign-language ability, much less fluency, is required. Marco polo 15:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

In Mexico, it's rare to encounter a college-educated person who doesn't at least speak English as well as Spanish. It's really only in the US that educated people are monolingual. Donald Hosek 18:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

What, Mexico and the US are the only countries in the world? I suspect there are lots of educated people in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, and Russia who aren't comfortable speaking any language other than their native one. —Angr 18:45, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

In my experience, it's much more common to find a bilingual person in the UK than the US. I have less experience with people from Russia or the antipodes, but I would guess that bilingualism among the college-educated is much lower in the US than nearly any other country. Donald Hosek 22:08, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Also note that "bilingualism" means different things to different people. For linguists, to say someone is bilingual in language A and language B means they have native speaker competence in both languages. So, even though in addition to my native language (English) I speak German fluently, French rather less fluently, Irish less fluently still, and can read Welsh, Latin, Portuguese, and Spanish with a dictionary and time to think, I would never consider myself bilingual. So under that definition, I could be added to your list of college-educated Americans who aren't bilingual. —Angr 05:48, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Certainly, here in the UK, we are notorious for being bad at foreign languages. One problem being how well people in Europe speak English. I suspect though as the US is such a large country, there is even less incentive to learn, as well as their famous more insular nature. So, you may be right about 'someone who speaks another language' but Angr is right about the definition of bilingual. Although speaking fluent German is impressive, Angr, whether you use the word or not. And I know from reference desk answers to my questions you're not too shoddy on the old Anglo-Saxon either. Cyta 08:18, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I suspect that our "more insular nature" has a lot to do with our country being huge. For the average American, leaving the country is a pretty rare event. For most of us, it's a long drive to the nearest country that doesn't speak English. I live near the Canadian border, but the part of Canada by me is English-speaking. To drive to Quebec takes many hours. And Mexico is well over 1,000 miles away. Funnyhat 05:43, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello, Annick, just in case you missed what little information Wikipedia has under Brazil#Languages: "English is also part of the official high school curriculum in most of the Brazilian states, even though the majority of the population is not fluent. Spanish is understood to varying degrees by many Brazilians, especially on the borders with Colombia, Peru, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay. The same applies to French which is spoken and understood in the cities bordering French Guiana."

The article on Languages of Brazil doesn't address the status and education of acquired languages. ---Sluzzelin talk 20:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reaiah -Origin

Hello,

I just found name on the "List of Biblical Names" page and I was trying to find the origin and any additional information.

The meaning was provided but there was no additional information that I was able to locate.

Any additional info you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Kindest Regards

170.2.52.28 16:25, 19 July 2007 (UTC)Dominic

I've made Reelaiah a redirect to Raamiah to clarify this. Wareh 17:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, my eye landed on the wrong name at List of Biblical names. The question is about Reaiah, who lacks any coverage in Wikipedia, so see the entry "Reaiah" in an external reference like Nave's Topical Bible or Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible. Wareh 14:28, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] French pronunciation of Joachim

How is the name Joachim pronounced in French? My assumption is that it is pronounced like zhoh-SHAN or zhoh-a-SHAN (with a nasalized "n," of course). I've never actually heard it pronounced, though, so I wanted to get confirmation. (Please, no IPA explanations; my browser doesn't show them.) Thanks! Funnyhat 22:34, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

(Using your phonetics): zho-a-keem is the way it is most commonly pronounced. Occasionally, yo-a-keem. The -shan suggestion sounds wrong, though I'm sure there are people who pronounce it that way when reading it for the first time. ---Sluzzelin talk 23:05, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Huh, I would not have guessed that. Thanks! Funnyhat 03:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)