Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 January 12

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[edit] January 12

[edit] Hyphenation and capitalization

What are the grammar rules relating to words that follow hyphens? Moreover, would "Post-read List" be more accurate than "Post-Read List"? --MZMcBride 03:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

When you're doing the sort of capitalization where every word or every important word is capitalized, as is common for titles and proper names, the usual convention today is to capitalize exactly as if the hyphens were spaces. Thus we have Fail-Safe (novel) and Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario. If a hyphenated word is capitalized only because it's at the start of a sentence, only the first letter is capitalized: "First-time users should read the manual." So if "Post-Read List" is a proper name, then it has three capital letters. Whether it should be considered a proper name, I can't say, because I don't know what you mean by it.
In the past it was more common to see the convention that the letter after a hyphen was never capitalized unless the word was part of a proper name in its own right. If that novel had been published a few decades earlier, it might have been titled "Fail-safe", although something like Winston-Salem, North Carolina would still have a capital S. --Anonymous, January 12, 2007, 05:52 (UTC).

[edit] Cotton Picking

Why is the phrase "cotton-picking" used to mean "damned" or "rotten" in the sense of mild profanities? Wiktionary states that it is "Used as a general form of disapproval", and has an example statement from Richard Nixon, yet I can't seem to find any kind of etymology for it anywhere. Laïka 11:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Racist origin. A reasonable guess is that it originally referred to slaves... 惑乱 分からん 12:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
There were also poor white tenant farmers and sharecroppers who picked cotton. Also, I am most familiar with the expression "cotton-picking hands". As in "Keep your cotton-picking hands away from me!" People who picked cotton had dirty, often cut and callused hands. I think that the expression is about lowliness and filth rather than about race. It does not have a racial implication to my American ears. Marco polo 20:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Hmmmm, although arguably class, though... 惑乱 分からん 23:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Oooh! According to Etymology Online, the first cite is a Bugs Bunny cartoon! Cotton-picking was first recorded in a Bugs Bunny cartoon, but the noun meaning "contemptible person" dates to around 1919, probably with racist overtones that have faded over the years. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 02:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I would say it means "miserable or unpleasant", as picking cotton was very hard on the hands, which were cut up by the cotton plant. Also note that the G is rarely pronounced in this phrase, so I would write it "cotton-pickin' ", accordingly. StuRat 05:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LLC & Closed Corporation

Hallo,

I´m already looking quite a long time for the US-American Translation of the German type of company "GmbH" (capital company with limited liability). In dictionaries you find several translations. Some say "Closed Corporation" and others say "LLC" (Limited Liability Company). I wonder if somebody could tell me the difference between both ones and which is the correct one i need.

Thanks

77.179.14.254 13:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The legal regulations that define corporations vary from nation to nation and, within the United States, from state to state. There is no exact equivalent of the German GmbH in the United States. I think that the best translation for this term would be "corporation". The distinction that exists between AGs and GmbHs in Germany does not exist as such in the United States. There are LLCs, but they differ from other corporations and from GmbHs in a number of ways. They are often considered partnerships rather than corporations for tax purposes, for example, which is not a feature of GmbHs. On the other hand, both GmbHs and virtually every type of corporation in the United States share the feature of limited liability. Although the LLC contains "limited liability" as part of its name, it shares this feature with other types of corporations. The LLC is considered a somewhat unusual corporate form in the United States, whereas the GmbH is the leading corporate form in Germany. I do not think that I have heard of "closed corporations", do not know what this term means, and doubt that most Americans will understand it. Therefore, I would translate GmbH as "corporation". You could explain that the legal framework for GmbHs differs in some details from the frameworks for corporations in the various U.S. states. Marco polo 16:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your good and detailed comment Marco Polo. OK, but what term can I use for the German "Aktiengesellschaft(AG)" (the only company in Germany that has shares which are sold to the public to raise capital) . I thought this is the official term for Corporation. So what can i say to make translated a difference between "GmbH" and "AG" ? Thanks

Maybe the best thing would be to use the German term, since these types of business organization are unique to Germany (and other German-speaking countries), but then to add parenthetically in English the following: for GmbH "a privately held corporation similar to an LLC" and for AG "a publicly traded corporation". Incidentally, I realized that what you are calling a "closed" corporation is usually called a "privately held" or "private" corporation in the United States. However, if you need a simple, easy-to-understand English word, the word "corporation" works for both the GmbH and the AG. They are both types of corporation from a U.S. point of view. A U.S. corporation need not issue publicly traded stock, as the AG does. Marco polo 20:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gender neutral (group) descriptor for niece/nephew/aunt/uncle

I've done a quick search on the topic but I'm not sure how to phrase the question for the search engine to find the answer if there is one on Wiki. My question is this:

Is there a group (gender neutral) descriptor term for niece/nephew or aunt/uncle, as there is for brother/sister (sibling), son/daughter (child), or (grand)mother/father {[grand]parent}? (and what is the proper term for these other terms? i.e. they are not per se pronouns).Jazzhed 18:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Not really. A few mid-20th-century anthropologists made up the term "nibling", but it doesn't seem to have caught on (despite http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/uk/newsid_3667000/3667379.stm ). AnonMoos 21:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
If you're willing to be a little creative and steal some teminology from other relationships, then a nephew/niece could be a 'sibling, once removed', taking the 'one removed' term from that used for Cousins, and considering that 'great' or 'grand' seems to mean 'add one generation', and an uncle/aunt would be a 'great/grand-sibling'. --Neo 21:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Are you sure you want to remove this sibling? A sibling, once removed, cannot be retrieved. [OK] [CANCEL]  --LambiamTalk 01:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
To lose one sibling might be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness (with apologies to Oscar Wilde.  :) JackofOz 00:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

You can always steal the gender neutral "cousin" and call your niece or nephew "my children's cousin". Of course, if you don't yet have kids you will either need to use theoretical children or get busy. StuRat 05:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

If you're happy with "children's cousin", "brother/sister's child" would be an obvious improvement, since it obviates the need for any extra effort on your part, should you lack podlings of your own. GeeJo (t)⁄(c) • 13:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
"Sibling's child" for niece/nephew. "Parent's sibling" for aunt/uncle. --Nelson Ricardo 17:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
"Cuz" has long been used for distant relatives. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Isn't cousin a male cousin, and cousine a female cousine? My French teachers said it was, even in English. Same with fiance(e). Have I been lied to? 121.72.14.221 03:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Nope, not in English. English has at various periods struggled (usually moderately unsuccessfully) to preserve unpronounced gender contrasts in such orginally French words as Blond(e), Confidant(e), and Fiancé(e), but words which have been fully integrated into English (such as "cousin") do not mark gender contrasts in this way. AnonMoos 07:12, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Teaching english as 2nd language

I would like to know, if there is an article that shows how to teach the difference between the verbs, to do and to make.

Thank´s in advance for the replay. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 148.244.209.81 (talk) 18:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC).

Not on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a how-to guide. Check Wiktionary's definitions for the words and you'll probably find a good distinction. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 20:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Take a look at this - Nunh-huh 21:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
From your IP address, it appears you're in Mexico. So I'd simply explain it using Spanish words -- while both "to do" and "to make" mean hacer, only "to make" means hacer in the sense of crear ("to create").
"to do" = hacer ≠ crear
"to make" = hacer = crear
You can crear un pastel, but you can't crear una voltereta lateral (cartwheel). So you make a cake but do a cartwheel. -- Mwalcoff 06:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)