From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Language desk
< December 16	<< Nov | December | Jan >>	December 18 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

Contents 1 December 17 1.1 orient vs. orientate 1.2 Please Help Me Out... (rhyme scheme) 1.3 Lost Word 1.4 How to use, "Drink, Drank, Drunk, and Drunken," correctly. 1.5 Flapjack 1.6 Basque minimal pair 1.7 My Melody of Love

[edit] December 17

[edit] orient vs. orientate

Is 'orientate' and 'orientated' the English word and orient and oriented American? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.37.125.90 (talk) 02:12, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

This link provides a bit of info. Anchoress 02:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please Help Me Out... (rhyme scheme)

Can someone help me out with finding the rhyme scheme for this poem, for the life of me I can't seem to get it...

Here it is:

The Assyrian came down like the wolf on the fold,

And his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold;

And the sheen of their spears was like stars on the sea,

When the blue wave rolls nightly on deep Galilee.

Like the leaves of the forest when summer is green,

That host with their banners at sunset were seen

Like the leaves of the forest when autumn hath blown,

That host on the morrow lay withered and strown.

For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,

And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed

And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,

And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!

And there lay the steed with his nostrils all wide,

But through it there rolled not the breath of his pride

And the foam of his gasping lay white on the turf,

And cold as the spray of the rock-beating surf.

And there lay the rider distorted and pale,

With the dew on his brow and the rust on his mail;

And the tents were all silent, the banners alone,

The lances unlifted, the trumpet unblown.

And the widows of Ashur are loud in their wail,

And the idols are broke in the temple of Baal;

And the might of the Gentile, unsmote by the sword,

Hath melted like snow in the glance of the Lord!

Thanks, Piro

Looks like AABB to me... AnonMoos 05:04, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

If you mean meter, it's an anapestic trimeter, and your poem is quoted in that article.--Shantavira 09:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

In general, to find the rhyme scheme of a rhyming poem, you should first divide it in stanzas. In this case it has been made easy, as the stanzas are set off from each other by a blank line. Four-line stanzas, also known as quatrains, are very common. Usually, the stanzas use the same rhyme scheme.

Now determine in each stanza the rhyme. In this case it goes like:

...fold/...gold/...sea/...galilea // ...green/...seen/...blown/...strown // (and so on)

(I've taken the liberty to modify the spelling of Galilee to make the rhyme – which does not depend on the spelling of the words but only on their pronunciation – more apparent.)

Look at the first stanza. It has two kinds of rhyming ends: -old and -ea. Schematically, the rhyming pattern of the first stanza is old/old/ea/ea. We replace the rhyming ends by single letters from the beginning of the alphabet: A, B, C, etcetera. The way to do that is to use A for the first kind you encounter, B for the second kind, and so on. In this case we have only two kinds, so we use only A (for old) and B (for ea). We get then this pattern: A/A/B/B, or for short, AABB. This is the "name" of this rhyming scheme. Some people prefer lower case letters: aabb, which means the same.

If you apply the same method to the second stanza, you get een/een/own/own, which also is the AABB pattern. The same pattern continues throughout the poem; it has a completely regular rhyme scheme.

For a very similar but different rhyme scheme, try the poem The Spider and the Fly, which has (at least in the beginning) 6-line stanzas. For an unusual (but regular) scheme, see The Skeleton in Armor by Longfellow.

There are all kind of possible complications: irregular or unidentifiable stanzas, irregular rhyme schemes, rhyming across stanzas, and so on. But this should help you on your way.  --Lambiam^Talk 12:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

One would normally say this was a four-verse stanza structure with AABB rhyme scheme in each stanza. Looking at the poem as a whole, though, many of the sounds repeat... so if you were looking to see if there were a larger, intentional structure (as with a sonnet, for instance—which this isn't), you'd assign a letter to each rhyming sound and reuse it whenever the sound reappears. The complete poem breaks down like this:

AABB CCDD EEFF GGHH IIDD IIJJ

The final two stanzas use the same rhymes in their first two lines, and the last two lines of the fifth stanza use the same sound as the last two lines in stanza two. (This is not any "named" formal structure, just a choice on the part of the poet for this one poem.) It is also notable that many of the end-rhymes have very similar sounds even where they do not rhyme: "old," "own" and "owrd" have the same vowel, as do "ee" and "een"; furthermore, all of these, pluse "ide" and "ale" use long vowels—creating a particularly heavy emphasis on line endings.

Going deeper, the A, F, G and I rhymes contain an "l" (that's a lower-case "L") in them, and six of the remaining fourteen end words (including three of the four D rhymes) have an "l" immediately preceding the end-rhyme. Then you add in words that include "r" in the rhyme, or immediately preceding it—"r" being the only other "liquid" in English besides "l"—which picks up rhymes H and J, the remaining D rhyme, plus "green" and "pride"; you end up with only four line endings ("see, seen, passed, wide") that don't include a liquid sound in the rhyming syllable... and the glide of the "w" in "wide" is echoed elsewhere as well, leaving only three end-words that aren't "gathered up" by this liquid/glide "conjunction." And since there are six "s" sounds in syllables already containing liquids, it's not hard to see how every single end word is linked into a tight system of consonance. None of which has directly to do with rhyme... though it might explain why you're having a hard time seeing what does and does not rhyme here.

Oh, and this is tetrameter, not trimeter. Four anapestic feet, not three. --Vyasa Ozsvar 03:00, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lost Word

Hi folks

I am looking for a word to use as a sub heading in my reseme' which best describes my residing or living in many towns, cities or countries around the world.

Thank you in advance. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.168.78.191 (talk) 05:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

International? Curious? Anyway, I think it could be perceived both as negative and positive, depending on which type of job you apply for. 惑乱 分からん 06:29, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd go for two words: "International Exposure". StuRat 12:31, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Cosmopolitan? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.75.103.56 (talk) 14:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

And for goodness sake, make sure you spell "resumé" correctly! --Auximines 19:58, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Er, you probably want to use the headword spelling résumé. Nohat 21:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Touché! We call it a CV here in England. It's easier to spell! --Auximines 00:17, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Curriculum vitae is easier to spell? --Nelson Ricardo 02:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

No, CV is. Virtually nobody says or writes "curriculum vitae", it's just "CV". JackofOz 04:24, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps urbane? Globetrotter? Robovski 04:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

You're mum's so dumb that she died of hunger when she got locked into coles for a night

Please help me with the word "forgive" what is the etymology of the word?

Sheryl —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.7.2.50 (talk) 15:19, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

I think it's a loan-translation of Latin perdonare (lit. for-give, cf. pardon). Also common in other West Germanic languages, check out http://www.m-w.com , http://www.dictionary.com or http://www.etymonline.com for more info. 惑乱 分からん 15:32, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it's a shortened form of "I ask you for to give me pardon for my actions." StuRat 16:05, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

More exactly, "forgive" is an old word, but the semantic shift occurred due to the Latin meaning. I would need a source for StuRat's claim. 惑乱 分からん 16:17, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Remember that 'for-' is a prefix that was productive in Old English (cognate with German 'ver-'). However, this prefix has quite a wide range of meanings - the OED gives ten senses for it, not counting two other 'for-' prefixes which it regards as different words. --ColinFine 22:17, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

That's right, as in English "for-bidden" = German "ver-boten". StuRat 22:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How to use, "Drink, Drank, Drunk, and Drunken," correctly.

Hello. I am conducting a science experiment involving water bottles and the number of times they have been used. That being said, I have to use the present, past, and future tenses of drink. I am confused about which past tense to use and whether or not to inclube a helping verb as, "have been or has been." Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! ~ Ziggy

"I am going to drink some beer." StuRat 16:02, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

"I drank some beer." StuRat 16:02, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

"The beer made me drunk." StuRat 16:02, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

"'Aliens are trying to probe me !', I screamed in a drunken rage." StuRat 16:02, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Present is 'drink', past is 'drank', perfect is 'have drunk'. 'Drunk' is also an adjective meaning 'inebriated'. 'Drunken' is an alternative, rather archaic word for 'inebritated'. --Auximines 20:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok... but what about when I'm telling someone that all the contents in the water bottle must be dranks by the same person? Like, "Make sure all the contents have been ....... by one person."

dranks? I'd say "have been drunk" in this case. 惑乱 分からん 16:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I drink, I drank, therefore I am ([[drunk]]). I am a drunken sod! --Light current 18:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

How about "Make sure all the contents are drank by one person" ? StuRat 18:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Are 'drunk': passive voice!--Light current 18:52, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's "Make sure all the contents are drunk by one person" --Auximines 20:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

This is an example of a productive pattern in English: I drink, I drank, I have drunk (and hence it has been drunk, because the past participle is always used for passive forms in English). Other examples are 'sing' and 'ring'. Not all words in '-ing' follow this exactly, though. --ColinFine 22:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

The verb is to drink. The preterite (simple past) is drank. The past participle is drunk. drunk also has unrelated meanings as an adjective (impaired by alcohol, and some other meanings) and as a noun (someone who is impaired by alcohol). Drunken is an adjective which has similar meanings to drunk as an adjective. --Spoon! 00:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I drink therefore I am. Foxjwill 07:09, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flapjack

Anyone know the etymology?--Light current 18:12, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

It is not entirely certain. Flap is an old word meaning to toss a mixture, whilst Jack can mean anything. Literally jack is a sort of filler word meaning anyone or anything so flapjack may just mean a mixture of anything left in the cupboard. It is first recorded a little before shakespeare "Come, thou shalt go home, and we'll have flesh for holidays, fish for fasting-days, and moreo'er puddings and flap-jacks, and thou shalt be welcome" Pericles, Prince of Tyre, but it was probably more like an apple flan at that time. The oaty, syrupy delight— which I may just have to go and make now—dates (please don't put dates in it) only from the 1930s according to the OED. meltBanana 19:25, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah nothing to do with what I may have been thinking then!--Light current 22:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Now now, LC, calm down. The divergence of the US and UK definitions is interesting though, and I wonder when it occurred - is the Prince perhaps offering a pancake? Natgoo 20:04, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Well a better author then shakespeare would have included a recipe but at that time it probably was something like a pancake albeit one in which anything may be added (bit like an omelette). American English does have a tendency to retain some old words which have been dropped, redefined in English English (gotten/got, fall/autumn). meltBanana 22:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Basque minimal pair

Basque has two voiceless alveolar sibilants, contrasting laminal /s̻/ (spelled with z) with apical /s̺/, (spelled with s). Does anyone know a good minimal pair for these two phonemes? Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 21:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

su ("fire") and zu ("you"). [1] Skarioffszky 22:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 00:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My Melody of Love

What is the foreign language spoken in the song "My Melody of Love?" I get the impression Vietnamese or Chinese, btu I'm not sure. Xieng me xie xie (i'm totally guessing on the spelling, and the words after it I can't remember... :( ) Crisco 1492 23:58, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

According to our article on Bobby Vinton, the song is partially in Polish. The lines are (according to these on-line lyrics) Moja droga jacie kocham and Kocham ciebie calem serce. An on-line Polish-English translator turns these into "I love my expensive (dear) < way > jacie" and "I love you inch heart". According to several sites, jacie should actually be two words: ja cie, and the line simply means "My dear, I love you".  --Lambiam^Talk 09:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Lamb. Crisco 1492 00:08, 20 December 2006 (UTC)