Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2007 December 24

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[edit] December 24

[edit] Bourgeois charms?

The movie title "The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie", what does it mean? How can a charm be discreet? Is this a French thing? --Milkbreath (talk) 00:28, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Among the meanings of "discreet" are "unpretentious", "modest", "unobtrusive", "unnoticeable". I'd go here with the first. I'm sure it is meant somewhat ironically by Buñuel, since he obviously makes fun of the bourgeoisie and its pretentions, but perhaps he is also suggesting that, in spite of all their ignorance, stupidity and pretentions, the bourgeoisie nevertheless also has an unpretentious charm, like kids at play who don't know any better. But here I'm out on a limb.  --Lambiam 00:55, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't think he meant it literally in any way. The movie spends the entire time lampooning the idea of the bourgeosie, portraying them in the worst possible light, with no redeeming qualities. (I thought it was a lousy movie, personally, but I'm no film critic.) --24.147.86.187 (talk) 15:50, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why do Canadians shop in US?

The CAD is now at par with the USD. Say you live in Windsor, Ontario, and are shopping in Michigan for clothes, and you stay there for maximum 8 hours. When you return to Canada, you will have to pay GST, Ontario PST, Duties if it made in China, and I am not sure about this but the Michigan's Sales Tax.

So why do people consider cross border shopping as a money saving opportunity? --Obsolete.fax (talk) 05:40, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Few links: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5056-eng.html and Canadian_import_duties. --Obsolete.fax (talk) 05:42, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Two answers. First, if you bought the stuff in Canada you'd still be paying GST and PST, so that's not a factor either way. Only the duty and Michigan sales tax are factors. Canadian prices are often simply higher than US ones when exchange rates are stable: for one thing, the lower population density in Canada means that shipping tends to cost more, and the degree of competition between merchants may be different regarding specific products. In addition, prices of imported goods often lag behind exchange rate changes, as merchants base their prices on the wholesale prices they paid months earlier; with the Canadian dollar rising recently, this means Canadian prices are more likely to be higher than US ones. All this means that Canadian prices could be higher by enough to offset the duty and Michigan taxes.

The second answer is that some people cheat and don't declare everything they bought, hoping to get away with it.

--Anonymous Canadian, 05:56 UTC, December 24, 2007.

It's also just kind of fun, at first. Why shop at Zellers when you can go to Target, which we don't have here? I don't think there is going to be a logical answer here; people do lots of dumb things for no reason. Adam Bishop (talk) 08:38, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I fully agree that the "dumb factor" is overlooked way too often. Just have a look at the millions of people that play lottery, can you think of a dumber investment for your money? --Taraborn (talk) 15:20, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, this comes to mind... Corvus cornixtalk 21:21, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Well lottery players often have a problem with basic maths [1] so it's not surprising if stats isn't their strong suit. Nil Einne (talk) 12:14, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

It depends on what you buy and how much. I try to go clothes shopping whenever I'm in the US. One time recently, I spent about $200 for stuff that would have cost at least $400 in Canada, if I could find it there. And the sales taxes are much lower in the U.S. As long as you spend less than $400 for a weekend trip, you don't have to pay any tax when you go back to Canada. The key here, though, is that I'm going to the U.S. anyway. Someone who lives in Toronto could use up eight gallons of gas traveling to Niagara Falls and back, plus all of the other costs of driving. It could very easily cancel out the benefits of shopping in the U.S. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:35, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps they are looking for a particular item unavailable in Canada. I remember once seeing two guys at Home Depot loading a entire panel van full with insulation. Perhaps not too odd except for the vehicle's Ontario plates. Besides all our great Detroit postcards unavailable over the river, we also used to have high volume toilets which were a cross-border smuggling item. Rmhermen (talk) 18:48, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
I recall buying alcohol at a grocery store just for the thrill of buying alcohol at a grocery store! (It was the worst beer ever, but nevertheless.) Adam Bishop (talk) 07:32, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Iron Guard

Why did the Germans offer no support to the Romanian Iron Guard when it was suppressed by Antonescu in January 1941? Captainhardy (talk) 06:54, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Did you read The Legionnaires Rebellion and the Bucharest Pogrom, Iron Guard and Romania during World War II? These articles seem to provide enough info for you to reach your own conclusions. Antonescu was an ally of Hitler and it seems unlikely that the Germans would have wanted to support an coup by an unstable and unreliable military regime against a resonably stable and reliable partner Nil Einne (talk) 12:11, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why was simi banned?

Why was simi banned? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hadif Abdul Shaheed (talk • contribs) 08:40, December 24, 2007 (UTC) – Please sign your posts!

SIMI was banned because the Government of India believes that the organization is involved in terrorism. For more information, see Students Islamic Movement of India.  --Lambiam 09:31, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] explain process of putting up a picture for explanation

need a picture explained of a lot of famous people —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.81.232.111 (talk • contribs) 14:53, December 24, 2007 (UTC) – Please sign your posts!

Sorry, I can't understand what you are asking for. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 15:48, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Is your question about how to upload a picture that you have? Just click "Upload file" in the left margin and follow the instructions. You can only do that, however, it the image is free; if it is a copyrighted image you must not upload it here. You can find more information (a step by step explanation of the process) on the page Wikipedia:Uploading images. If you have further problems with uploading an image, you can ask for help at the Wikipedia:Help desk.  --Lambiam 15:55, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
On the other hand, if you don't want to put up the picture in Wikipedia, you can use a site like Imageshack to upload a photo, and link to it from here. SaundersW (talk) 15:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] American Indian Declaration of Independence

Resolved.

Reading about this reminded me of something I had read about an American Indian tribe issuing a declaration of independence sometime early on in the US's history. If I remember right, Congress actually approved it, but it was vetoed by the president (perhaps Andrew Jackson?) However, I haven't been able to find any information on this on Wikipedia or elsewhere, and I'm beginning to wonder if I imagined it entirely. I believe it was a tribe in the South, but beyond that I can't remember much anything else. Anyone know whether such a thing actually ever occurred? -Elmer Clark (talk) 17:35, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

It was the Cherokees of Northern Georgia in the 1830s. They created a Declaration of Independence using a lot of wording from the US Declaration. They were facing the Indian Removal Act. Gold had recently been discovered in their territory and they were being driven out. The Supreme Court ruled in their favor, but the President ignored them (this is something he doesn't have power to do, unlike a veto, which he does have a right to do). The Cherokees were driven from Georgia to Oklahoma and thousands died in what is now called the Trail of Tears. I see no article about their Declaration on wikipedia. I can't find a copy of the text online either. It's hard to distinguish it from America's declaration on search engines. Wrad (talk) 15:32, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
An 1861 Declaration by the People of the Cherokee Nation of the Causes Which Have Impelled Them to Unite Their Fortunes With Those of the Confederate States of America, loosely modelled on the U.S. DoI, can be found here. There is also a 1974 Declaration of Continuing Independence issued by "the First International Indian Treaty Conference", controlled by Lakota activists and mentioned in our Lakota people article. I can be found (as a PDF file) here.  --Lambiam 17:00, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
I just wish we could find the 1830s Cherokee one. I have a print copy of it at home and it is really excellent. Wrad (talk) 17:06, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
If you have a print copy, and it is from the 19301830s, why not type it in and reference your print copy? SaundersW (talk) 17:34, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
It's kind of long... You mean just type bits of it in the Trail of Tears article and whatnot? Wrad (talk) 18:06, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, if it is from the 1830s it is likely to be out of copyright (all authors long dead), and as it is an actual document, then citing it will not be original research. You could either try to scan the text through an optical reader and upload it to wikisource or type bits that you feel are relevant into the article you think they are relevant to, andd add a reference to your document. SaundersW (talk) 18:28, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Sounds like a good idea. Wrad (talk) 18:30, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Before you type it all in, try Googling a distinctive phrase from the document; I bet you 10 to 1 'tis somewhere out there on the World-Wide Web.  --Lambiam 19:45, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the ideas. I tried it out. Here's some links: a letter to Congress, here's the 1827 Cherokee constitution, the nearest thing to a "Declaration of Cherokee Independence" that there was, dated November 5, 1829. All of these documents clearly and intentionally mimic and refer to American legal documents such as the Constitution and D of I in order to communicate to Americans that they were standing on solid legal and moral ground in their arguments. Wrad (talk) 21:42, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the info, Wrad (and everyone else). I see I wasn't remembering quite right, but very interesting nonetheless. -Elmer Clark (talk) 20:15, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
This material is too important to lie here and get archived and lost again. Could someone who knows more than I work some minimal text into the appropriate articles and support it with a <ref></ref> link to these on-line texts?--Wetman (talk) 15:12, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] what is the commercial law?

deffinition of commercial law ,
See Commercial law. -Elmer Clark (talk) 18:49, 24 December 2007 (UTC)