Talk:Redshirt (character)

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[edit] Definitive Explanation

In at least one of the Trek memoirs (Nimoy's I Am Spock or one of Shatner's), someone in the costume department gave the definitive reason for the redshirt phenomenon. I no longer have my copy for reference, but if I recall, budget constraints limited the number of costumes available. The same amount of each color of cloth was ordered, and what was left over from producing uniforms for the main characters were used to make uniforms in a variety of sizes for extras and actors in minor roles. A few of every color were made, but there were significantly more sizes available in red than the other colors because fewer main characters needed red costumes. More often than not, the availability of costumes would dictate a minor character's field of expertise. If no blue uniform was available in the right size for a doomed medic, the actor would don a red shirt and become a security or engineering officer. As a result, at least for a while, it was somewhat more common for actors in minor roles (expendable characters) to wear red shirts than any other color. I hesitate to add this information to the main page until I have the reference available. Perhaps someone with access to the memoirs could look this up?

[edit] Amusing

This article made me laugh so hard I thought a tooth would fly out. Corvus 06:31, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I'll bet that Santa does not find it amusing :) HoorayForMe (talk) 08:49, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

In the Star Wars series, Obi Wan Kenobi's R4 astrodoids keep getting destroyed, at least once in each of the two newest movies (as I recall); Obi Wan's astrodroids are always red. Also, in "A new Hope", the old R2 unit that explodes is also painted red. Can someone check these informations so they can added to the article?

[edit] Uses section

Looking at the "uses" section, this topic has gone beyond science fiction to a lot of other genres. Can we move this to maybe Redshirt (character)? --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:07, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Probably not a bad idea. Stillnotelf 19:48, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

The list of uses is becoming long and cluttered, and in my opinion it should be divided into categories. I propose a division into either science fiction/other or TV shows/comics/games or something like that. -Stefanf 19:28, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yellowshirts

I changed to the text in the article from "redshirts are known as yellowshirts" to "redshirts are sometimes known as yellowshirts". I've rarely heard the term yellowshirt, it's more common to refer to them as redshirts, despite the color discrepancy.--RLent 21:44, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Occurrences

I just got finished cleaning up the newly-added TOS redshirts list, and I'm not sure if this article really needs such a list. I'll leave it there, because they're good examples of just how the redshirt works, but I'm open to comments. That said, a few of the descriptions need a bit more description. -- Wwagner 20:22, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Is this list supposed to be of redshirt deaths in a general sense - meaning expendable crewmembers regardless of actual shirt color - or ONLY those literally wearing red shirts? "The Man Trap" is missing from the list, with crewmembers Darnell, Sturgeon, and Green all being killed off swiftly. Not all were in red shirts though. wikipediatrix 20:56, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] King Kong

The article makes mention of the 'first mate' wearing a red shirt and getting crushed. I find this wrong in two parts: a redshirt is a expendable character with little or no interaction with the greater plot nor main characters. That wasn't the case with the ship's first mate. Secondly, he didn't wear a red shirt. The fellow who wore the prominently red shirt in the film was the movie producer's right-hand man-- and he survived.

[edit] Zap Branigan?

I don't recall zap branigan ever saying "send in the redshirts", let alone something he said alot? Anyone have a link to a episode guide with this?

Don't remember either, he was known as someone in the series as a commander who would send in human wave attacks, that's the closest I can think of Alastairward 14:19, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Subsequent occurences

Is it verified that all (or even most) of the "Subsequent Occurences" are references to Star Trek redshirts? For some (esp. parody) it's obvious. But the others should be sourced or excluded. --JChap 00:03, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kirk

Didn't Kirk wear a redshirt for awhile in the series? I guess they must of changed that when they decided to start zapping the security personnel Lord Sephiroth03:44, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Allegedly because of lighting, the yellow shirt worn by command and control crew in Star Trek was more of a green-yellow colour. But Kirk's regular tunic was only ever yellow or green Alastairward 14:23, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Redundancy?

"Appearances of redshirt characters" and "References to redshirts" are pretty much the same thing, aren't they? In fact, a few examples are duplicated on both lists. Maybe these should be merged? Or a better distinction drawn between the two, as there seems to be no difference. I'm guessing the second list is meant to refer to the shirts themselves, while the first list is supposed to refer to the characters wearing them, but it doesn't seem clear that there's any such division. --Lurlock 05:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe the first section is actual examples from Star Trek, while the second is places that the concept has been referenced. Powers T 23:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Not really. Take a look. There's some Star Trek references in there, but since that's where the concept originates, it's not surprising. The majority of those are just assorted references to red shirts or characters wearing them and meeting their doom (or not). There's not really much difference between the sections. You may be referring to the stuff above "Subsequent Uses". I'm talking about the two sections below that, which are pretty much equivalent. --Lurlock 03:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, it'd been a while since I looked at the article as a whole. You're right, there's not much difference. The first section should be actual examples from outside of Star Trek, while the second should be places that the concept is referenced. =) Powers T 14:40, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
That section needs a big clean-up effort. "Appearances" should list notably expendable characters and "References" should list the comical jabs at the concept.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.252.30.189 (talk • contribs) .
I also like how there's a spoiler warning at the BOTTOM of the section, which just makes no sense at all. Think I'll move it. --Lurlock 13:53, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Oops, I just edited this before reading the talk page. I've added a new References subsection to the Subsequent uses section, and moved references which weren't literal appearances of the redshirt to there. An alternative would be to keep them merged and remove the subsection header, so that it isn't saying they are supposed to be actual appearances of the character type in TV shows or movies. --70.143.43.245 16:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Red Shirt Legostar Galactica

Wow. No mention of Red Shirt from the webcomic Legostar Galactica? Go look it up. -66.204.73.130

That's a rather rude way to suggest we include it. -- Zanimum 20:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Movie Boomerang

I believe the Family Guy reference may be picked up from Boomerang, where the characters played by Eddie Murphy and Halle Berry are watching "Elaan Of Troyius" and he makes reference to the inevitable death of the red shirt Ensign Ricky. I haven't seen the movie in a while, but I distinctly remember the Family Guy triggering memories of a similar observation in Boomerang, which may be one of the rare times in the early nineties that black characters admit more than a passing fascination with Star Trek.

urbanbohemian 21:28, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of Boomerang, I remember reading somewhere that Eddie Murphy was in talks to star in a Trek movie right about that time. Paramount apparently killed the idea because they didn't want Murphy to be geek-ified. Wl219 15:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vol episode?

Page 47 of 'Evil Super-Villains Need Love, Too ... and Other Important Wisdom talks about a Vol episode. Any ideas? -- Zanimum 20:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup Test Page

I have gone ahead and created a test page in my user space in the hopes that we can clean up the article. You can access it at: User:EnsRedShirt/Redshirt (character) cleanup test. Feel free to add comment's there or here, or add to it or delete from it as we march toward a concensus. EnsRedShirt 07:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay barring any responce here I will copy edit the test page over to the main page Early Saturday morning.. EnsRedShirt 06:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Move over done.. EnsRedShirt 07:56, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RedShirts in the '24' series.

I've been watching season 5 of the '24' TV series - all of their security officers wear red shirts with black cuffs and collars - just as in Trek, they are bit characters who die soon after their first appearance, have one-liners, no name - and are mourned by nobody when they are blown up, shot or poisoned.

This can't be an accident. Red is an odd choice for a 'rent-a-cop' uniform - they must have done this deliberately.

Anyway - I think this needs to be added to the article because unlike the other references, it's not just another StarTrek parody and it's a perfect example of the phenomenon - that they also wear red shirts is just a bonus!

SteveBaker 19:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sixth Man Syndrome

Sixth Man Syndrome redirects here, but there is no specific use of this term in the article (there is a mention that Guy Fleegman says "...I'm just 'Crewman Number Six.' I'm expendable..." in Galaxy Quest. If there is to be a redirect here, then some explanation is in order, perhaps including the observation that there are typically six transporter pads in a transporter room. --203.6.205.22 23:43, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Seeing as how Galaxy Quest is simply a parody of Star Trek, I imagine the info would be terribly redundant. Lots42 02:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ferguson

I know that was the name Mark Twain's party used for all their guides in Innocents Abroad, it was a generic name for any local guide, so it could have come up as a generic name for any redshirt.

[edit] Starfleet Security AfD/Merge

Most of the real-world material from Starfleet Security as it relates to this article was already here; there wasn't much to merge. Here is an archived copy of that article if someone would like to see whether I missed anything that should be here. --EEMeltonIV 19:22, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Killteam Redshirt

The reference to a Redshirt in Kill-team was removed as a "weak example" - in actual fact it's a blatant nod of the head, but was written weakly. I've added it with a different wording. Slavedriver 18:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

It's also completely lacking in a source. Where is this "variant" covered in reliable sources? -- nae'blis 18:54, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
The "variant" takes up a section of the rulebook itself - it's part of the official optional rules. Would say that's fairly reliable and non-lacking, myself. Slavedriver 22:14, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Please add that it's an official variant then, because to the uninitiated it looks like it could be a fan mod. -- nae'blis 02:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, reworded it slightly, had it changed right back. I'll step away from this now, other people can argue semantics. Slavedriver 20:56, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Autobot Jazz

I think Jazz was probably the biggest, if not the only, redshirt in the Transformers movie. Can he be included here? He wasn't featured that much and was quickly dispatched by Megatron. Nintenboy01 00:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

The original Transformers comic had a tradition that any named character who was not based on a toy, but invented for the comic, got killed. This was particularly prominent in the UK comic. This is more like redshirts, not Autobot Jazz, who is basically Jazz only renamed because Hasbro no longer own the trademark "Jazz". JIP | Talk 18:29, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redshirt Lives

There was a Robot Chicken episode where a redshirt is one of the few to make it off a doomed Enterprise. Everyone attempts to eat him first but he's the only one to actually bring a gun so he kills and eats the rest. Lots42 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 14:36, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TOS redshirts

What happened to the list of TOS redshirts? I think it should be re-integrated, though for the sake of simplicity, strictly kept to security officers wearing red shirts at the time of their demise. Thoughts? Mdiamante 16:02, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, a list of redshirts who croaked and from what would be very culturally relevant; it's well known in many, many social circles that if Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Ensign Smith go on a mission, Smith is not returning. Lots42 02:38, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eureka

Don't most tv pizza delivery guys -wear- red shirts? I'm not sure the Eureka example counts. Lots42 01:28, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wedge character

As an semi-antonym to this, what about including a "Wedge-type character" article, named for Wedge Antilles from the original Star Wars trilogy. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the series, he is a minor character with very little screen time, however, he survived through all three movies and both attacks on the Death Stars. This is notable because, as previously mentioned, he had no major role in any of the movies and is not a mahor secondary, just a minor. So include or no? --WTRiker 00:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

IIRC, Somewhere in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Stock_characters is a section dealing with characters just like Wedge. Lots42 (talk) 19:19, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Wedge-type_character --EEMIV (talk) 19:34, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Not the article I was thinking about though... Stupid non-recalling brain of mine. Lots42 (talk) 02:31, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subsequent Uses Section Problems

This section does not cite any references or sources. Okay, for SOME of the entries. But many of the other entries reference the episode in question and the characters themselves talk about redshirts and being expendable. I don't see how it can get more referenced then that. In other words, mentioning 'redshirt' and 'expendable'...much more then a coincidence. Maybe it's the template that needs changing (also). Lots42 (talk) 19:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conflict

There seems to be a conflict over the inclusion of the parodies section. I say, have a few of the 'big-name' references, like Robot Chicken, Kim Possible and Family Guy. What's Sev-Trek anyway? Lots42 (talk) 10:29, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Done.--Father Goose (talk) 03:00, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] As in the history

What's this mean? entire "examples" section is tripe and part of origins section is unsubstantiated.. No worries, I respect dissenting opinions. Lots42 (talk) 16:10, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Just that: the references and examples, while improved over previous versions of the article, remain mostly "I like it" or "isn't that neat?!" examples but without any citations to reliable sources substantiating editors' original research that these are uses of or references to the "redshirt" character. And there's a generalization about the Star Trek landing parties that is similarly uncited. --EEMIV (talk) 16:30, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I'd have to say that "original research" is being declared in this case a little too readily. My view of OR is that it applies to stuff that is strictly unverifiable, namely, personal experience and/or judgment. If multiple people check a primary source and agree that a given description of it is correct, I consider such information not just verifiable, but actively verified -- and definitely not OR.
That said, we could probably find a secondary source to back up the "Star Trek origins" section. Have you tried looking for one yet, or are you just condemning it for not having a good citation yet?--Father Goose (talk) 02:50, 17 April 2008 (UTC)