Talk:Red flag

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Contents

[edit] The Anthem

What anthem? --212.247.27.34 (talk) 01:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other uses for the Red Flag

As is suggested below in the air force training exercise section, there are other uses and meanings for the Red Flag besides the universal socialist banner.

However, I don't think references to them belong here, and certainly not in the first line of the article. I think we should move them to the disambiguation page, and if they are large enough to span an article, write so.

An alternative can be creating a section labelled "Other uses of the Red Flag". --Gatonegro 12:50, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I do not know yet how to correctly edit wikipedia but I would like to point out a fact that could perhaps be included in the article. As recently as 1931, a California statute defined display of a red flag as a statement of "opposition to organized government". see: Stromberg v. California As an official legal interpretation of the red flag this should be noted, although it would clearly contradict those eager to maintain the red flag as exclusively a symbol for the brute force correctly associated with Stalinism etc. --thenoticer 15:48, 25 March 2006

Does the red flag belong to Po (teletubby)? Crazy 29 12:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red Flag and the British Labour Party

"The red flag was the emblem of the British Labour Party from its inception to until the Labour Party Conference of 1986 when it was replaced by a red rose. The red rose has subsequently been adopted by a number of other socialist and social-democratic parties throught Europe."

I believe that the British Labour Party borrowed the rose symbol from continental Europe, rather than the other way around. The French Socialist Party, for example, adopted "the fist and the rose" as its emblem in 1969. Does anyone else have dates for other European socialist parties? Picapica 22:49, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

thumb|100pxThe fist with a rose symbol was adopted by the French Socialist Party in Septembre 1971 from what I gather. (Although it was indeed designed in 1969.) However the rose on its own seems to be a more common symbol among other European socialist parties (Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland) and could rightly be attributed to the Labour. — François 21:44, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The fist and rose was (to my recollection) has been broadly used in Europe, both for socialist organisations such as IUSY and also a number of individual socialist parties including those emerging from fascism in Spain and Portugal. I'd have thought that the British Labour Party's adoption of the rose was inspired by these european precedents. I first came across the logo/image in the late '70s. Is the inspiration of the red rose based on Labour's adoption in '86, or the earlier fist and rose? Which party/organisation started the fist and rose? --DaveLevy (talk) 16:39, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Red Flag air force training exercise

Red Flag is also an air force training exercise supposedly and apparently simulating each air force member's first ten "missions" or days of war. These first ten are by far the riskiest in anyone's term of war, whether they joined the war at the start or the end. Someone is practically invincible after these first ten days or "missions". While obviously no training can or should perfectly simulate this experience, Red Flag's realism brings it close to the real first ten days or "missions" and is even more difficult and intense than reality. (Difficult and intense in terms of skill, of course. In real combat, one still has to deal with the danger and loss of life.) "Death" replaces death, training failure replaces mission failure, and preparation ensures victory.FET 00:43, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

If you have referances to confirm what you say, prehaps you would like to start a page on this alternative use at Red Flag (Air force training exercise) or something similar. When you have constructed it you could add this line to the top of this Red flag page "Red flag is also an air force training exercise see Red Flag (Air force training exercise)"--JK the unwise 10:28, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

It would appear he has more than are used for this article to "confirm what (you) say." Any other topic category in wiki would get a banner demanding sources, so why not this one? Hmm?--Buckboard 05:47, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red Flag usage in Russia

In the book The Russian Civil War (1) The Red Army (ISBN 1-85532-608-6) the author (Mikhail Khvostov) says that the Red Flag was traditionally flown from tall buildings in villages with a plague epidemic. He also suggests that because of this, in the Russian Civil War, White Russian armies steered clear of villages held by the Red Army as they saw the Red Flag and thoght the village was diseased.

Is this any good? Perhaps it could be included in the History section of the article (Russia bit),as a historic use of the Red Flag?

PJB 17:02, 26 February 2006 (UTC) (Talkin' to me?)


I'm having problems citing this. For some reason once I've referenced the above info and press SAVE the whole bottom half of the article dissapears! Its the first time I've done this and, even after going to WP:Cite I still cant get it right! Can anyone help! AAAAGGGGHHHH!!!
PJB 18:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC) (Talkin' to me?)
I have added the ref' for you using the {{NamedRef}}/{{NamedNote}} method. I'm not sure what the consensous meathod is as loads of articles use differnt ways.--JK the unwise 13:42, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Cheers

PJB 16:32, 27 February 2006 (UTC) (Talkin' to me?)

[edit] More info

This socialist website link mentions the 'Significance of the Red Flag'. Is it useful info to go in the article or as a link? PJB 21:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

It mentions early origins/useages PJB 22:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bloodthirsty contradiction?

In the history section it's stated that the red flag came to symbolise a less bloodthirsty message beginning in the early 17th century, but the flag hadn't acquired that reputation until the 18th century, thanks to the Buccaneers (who had became especially sadistic by the time piracy was dying out in the early 18th century), and thanks to the Jacobins of 1792-1795. Before them, it was just a battle-flag. Any objections to removing the sentence?

[edit] Did the Paris Commune really use the red flag?

The Paris Commune article says of Lenin:

At his funeral, his body was wrapped in the remains of a red and white flag preserved from the Commune.

But the Red flag article says this:

The red flag subsequently became the banner of the Paris Commune in 1871, at which time it became firmly associated with socialism.

Who is correct? Was the flag of the Paris Commune entirely red? Or was it red and white?

(I posted this question at Talk:Paris Commune but no one volunteered an answer.) — Lawrence King (talk) 05:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dates?

The photo of Jean Jaurès (or any photo of a historical event) needs a date. --Isaac R 19:50, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Metaphorical usage: "send up a red flag", "raise a red flag", etc.

What is the origin of the modern methaporical usage of "raising a red flag"? e.g. here, or here or here or here or here or here. The article mentions "In pre-civil war Russia the Red flag was used as a symbol of warning...". Did modern Americans (especially when it comes to résumés and tax returns) really inherit this usage from the Russians? Ewlyahoocom 19:44, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

The red flag was written by james connolly, the scots/irish socailist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.204.35 (talk) 18:08, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

The earliest citation of "red flag" is dated 1777,[1] so I find all the explainations given in the article dubious. The original usage obviously didn't have anything to do with Russia, communism, Jacobins, or bullfighting.Kauffner (talk) 18:36, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Manchester United

I very much doubt that the words to the manchester united version of the Red Flag are accurate, primarily because it does not scan - that being the prime concern of football chants.

Any editions? Tomkeene 16:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Piracy

I think this article needs to have a lot less about piracy. In the early modern period, the red flag was a flag of defiance used by both pirates and non-pirates. People at the time didn't link it to piracy, as the quote I put in from Chambers Cyclopedia shows. We shouldn't get carried away with the Hollywood notion of pirates as a people with a separate culture and traditions. The use of the red flag by Communists and other socialists is derived from its use by the Jacobins during the French Revolution -- there is no allusion to piracy. Kauffner (talk) 04:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)