Talk:Red Wizard

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 01:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Red Wizards (Dungeons & Dragons) → Red Wizards — Unnecessary disambiguation Pak21 12:27, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

[edit] Survey - in support of the move

1. Support (as proposer): this has been bumped from an uncontroversial move on the basis that "Red Wizard" is a common term within the Final Fantasy series. I don't think this is really true, as the FF class is Red Mage, not Red Wizard. Google returns 804 hits for "red wizard" "final fantasy" but 156,000 for "red mage" "final fantasy". Red Mage is also linked as a "See also" link at the top of the page, meaning it's as many clicks away as it would be if we had a dab page at Red Wizards. Cheers --Pak21 12:34, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
2. Support Disambiguation should only be used when necessary. Establishment of context is the job of the first sentence of the article, not the title. --Polaron | Talk 04:21, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
3. Support, although would "Red Wizards of Thay" take care of any disambiguation concerns? I actually have no D&D knowledge but if "of Thay" is part of the organization's real title, then include it because plural article titles are just awkward (at least to me, especially in this case since to any random bystander, "Red Wizard" would suffice). Axem Titanium 22:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey - in opposition to the move

1. Oppose per WP:NC(P). Parenthetical additions serve more benefits to the reader then just disambiguation. They help clue to the reader into what the heck the article is about. The current title serves that purpose much better then just the vague Red Wizards. 205.157.110.11 15:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments:

• I don't believe it is standard Wikipedia practice to use disambiguation as a key for article context eg the video game Half-Life is at Half-Life, not Half-Life (video game) and many, many other examples. --Pak21 11:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

• Further clarification from a Final Fantasy Aficiando: Red Wizard is an upgrade from Red Mage only appearing in Final Fantasy I. All other Final Fantasy Games use Red Mage, and Red Mage is considered the standard term. People already educated on Final Fantasy will not confuse Red Wizard with FF, people not educated with Final Fantasy will not know about the Red Wizard in FFI and thus would be unfamiliar with it in FF, thus they still will not confuse Red Wizard with FF. --Daedalus 20:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

• Re: "Red Wizards" vs "Red Wizard" vs "Red Wizards of Thay": there are actually two separate Dungeons & Dragons concepts here: the "Red Wizards of Thay", a group within the Forgotten Realms, and "Red Wizard", a prestige class which is a requirement for membership of the group. I see no problem with moving this article to Red Wizards of Thay (currently a redirect here) and pointing Red Wizards there. Red Wizard could then either be a redirect to the Thay article or a dab page for that and a Final Fantasy mention. Cheers --Pak21 13:13, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.