Talk:Red Queen (Through the Looking Glass)

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Isn't it contradictory to have an article that cites the end game of chess happening because the Red King (the Red Queen's 'mate') is captured, and then also have a sentence concerning how she embodies the analogue of the RQH featuring an ability to "survive with or without her mate". Quaeler (talk) 21:50, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Not really, because Alice takes the Red Queen before (or rather as) she checkmates the Red King. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Not050 (talk • contribs) 14:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, it reads like you just reconfirmed the statement: the queen is taken before / at the same time as the checkmating of the king and the end of the game. So, again, the queen's existence in this concrete example (as well as in the rules of chess in general) does not continue "with or without her mate". What did i miss in your reply? Quaeler (talk) 14:59, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

• I was talking about the course of the game, not just the end of it. The Red King does not move throughout the game in the story, therefore, in that sense, the Queen and all the other pieces do quite well without him. Also, the Red Queen doesn't die because the Red King is taken so as to bring the game to an end and make her, along with all the pieces, freeze. She "dies" when she is "shaken into a kitten" by Alice when Alice moves to take her and checkmate the King at the same time. But I suppose what I was trying to articulate was that the RQH can mean (or include the analysis of) competition, or rivalry, between the sexes. In evolutionary circles you can look at the black widow: she is large and strong and capable of living by herself and eating what she likes, including her mate, but she cannot reproduce without him and besides which, the male has the more potent venom, so what is really meant by "powerful"? In a game of Chess, similar ambiguity is given in terms of "power" in the sense that the queen is acknowledged as the most powerful piece on the board, but the king is seen as the most important, so there is equality but imbalance at the same time: you cannot continue your own game without your king, nor can you defeat your opponant as efficiently without your queen. That's the sort of thing I was trying to articulate. Not050