Talk:Red Dragon (film)

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To the recent editor: Thank you so much for vastly improving this article. I wrote it very quickly off the top of my head initially because it was a most wanted article. Needless to say, you have improved it beyond measure. Pcb21| Pete 21:06, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I changed the word 'unwordly' in "Lecter treats Starling as an unworldly student but Graham as a fellow professional (though not an equal)." to unworthy, as it appeared to be a typo. Please revert this if I am mistaken. Unworthy doesn't seem quite the right word to me, perhaps on his outer ways it does, although his thoughts are otherwise internally (been a while, so I don't dare attempt to write anything on the complex relationship between Clarice and Lector). MardukZero 03:01, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

PS: I would also rephrase the sentences to less confusing grammar in the latter parts of the synopsis (around where Graham confronts Dolarhyde while he is holding Graham's son hostage), but my mind is not in a proper state to do it correctly right now. MardukZero 03:07, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Synopsis is so far off that I do not believe a simple edit can fix/cover everything. While it gives a passing fair account of events, its shallow conclusions and wayward intimations quite horribly miss the point of the novel.--HungryHippo 08:22, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't think that the synopsis is so far off in the context of the simplistic story given in the film(s). However I feel that this article blurs the line between novel and book, and in that way miss the point of the novel. Perhaps separate articles for film(s) and novel.

Contents 1 Trivia 2 "Oysters" 3 Lecter's identity 4 TfD nomination of Template:Hannibal Lecter films 5 Chronology 6 disembowel 7 Repetition of Painting Information. 8 The Raspail issue 9 Fair use rationale for Image:Red Dragon movie.jpg 10 Fair use rationale for Image:Willandgram.jpg

[edit] Trivia

The assertation (assertion?) in the trivia section is absurd - "This film is unique in that it is an adaptation of the Red Dragon novel, while at the same time being a remake of Manhunter." There have been countless novels which have been filmed more than once (think A Tale of Two Cities!) and in each case the second film has been both an adaptation and a remake. I will remove this piece of non-trivia in a week, unless someone shows good reason why this film is different in kind to other remakes of adaptations.

[edit] "Oysters"

Early in the movie, Norton's character says "The tenderest part of the chicken is the oysters ... on either side of the back". Which cut of the chicken is this?

[edit] Lecter's identity

The line that states Will Graham to be co-agent and friend of Lecter is possibly incorrect on both facts. Lecter was not an FBI agent, and most probably was never a friend of Will Graham. I will remove this sentence from the plot in a week's time unless good reason is shown for its existence. Treason of isengard 05:13, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:Hannibal Lecter films

Template:Hannibal Lecter films has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. --CyberGhostface 22:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chronology

We've got two conflicting statements:

"This film is set to be followed by Hannibal Rising, though this film precedes Red Dragon* in the Hannibal Lecter chronology."

"Red Dragon is, in both publishing chronology and story order, the first story in the Lecter trilogy."

I imagine the intent was to have the * be Hannibal Rising, but being that I don't know, I just figured I'd bring it to someone's attention. 65.190.120.48 02:28, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] disembowel

he didn't stab him randomly.The term dissembowel isn't apropriate.he new what he was doing,he is a doctor,he tell's him "your in a shock ...",i'm guessing he was aming at his splean, in order to blead him to death.--87.65.171.194 02:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Repetition of Painting Information.

The difference in paintings is mentioned in full twice in this article. Once in the introductory paragraph and then once in an Error section.

Does anyone else feel like this is redundant? --65.189.245.127 08:43, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, it isn't totally redundant as the error section mention actually addresses it as an error. Dr. Hannibal Lecter 14:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Raspail issue

I posted this a year ago on the Hannibal Lecter talk page. It's a response to the Raspail confusion:

"It's actually an inconsistency in "Hannibal" only. In the books Lecter killed Raspail and Gumb killed Klaus but "Silence" screenwriter Ted Tally condensed the two characters into one. For the record, the literary Raspail was killed by Lecter but the cinematic Raspail was killed by Gumb.

The problem with "Hannibal" is that it wasn't written by Ted Tally. Tally passed on the project along with Jonathan Demme, Jodie Foster & Scott Glenn. Unfortunately the screenwriter of "Hannibal" (Stephen Zaillian) apparantly paid no attention to the changes Tally made in the previous film as he not only failed to reflect the changed Raspail situation in his screenplay but also included a scene from the original "Hannibal" novel (that was ultimately deleted for good reason) between Clarice and a mental hospital patient that makes no sense within the movie as it cannot be understood because the character was introduced in an unfilmed scene from the "Silence" novel.

A further continuity issue regarding "Hannibal" as it relates to "The Silence of the Lambs" is that the timestamp on the nurse video in no way matches the date that Chilton says that the incident took place on. I don't remember the two dates off the top of my head but if you go back and watch those scenes you'll see that the actual shown tape in "Hannibal" is literally YEARS off of what it should be, though it's likely that this was a mistake from someone else in the production as such a minor detail probably wouldn't be included in the screenplay. In any case, it demonstrates that continuity wasn't important to the makers of "Hannibal".

In any case, it's apparent that continuity IS important to Ted Tally because the Tally-written "Red Dragon" dances around the mess "Hannibal" made of the continuity. Those familiar with the Lecter books will notice that the opening scene of Tally's script details the story of the literary Benjamin Raspail but a more subtle fact is that the character modeled after Raspail in "Red Dragon" is NEVER identified by name in the movie, the screenplay or the credits. He is merely "flautist". Furthermore, he is completely bald whereas the head of Raspail in "Silence" has shaggy, curly hair. Since Raspail is never described as a flautist in "Silence" there are no continuity issues in regards to Benjamin Raspail when watching the two Tally-penned films. The continuity in "Hannibal" may be all messed up but at least Tally got it right.

The literary Lecter did indeed kill a flautist named Benjamin Raspail and served him to the symphony board but the cinematic Lecter of Tally's films did not kill Raspail, though he did kill an unnamed flautist identical to the literary Raspail in every respect but name.GuruAskew 09:09, 17 September 2006 (UTC)"

Perhaps the best way to address this confusion is to start a page for the Benjamin Raspail character that deals with this confusion because it's too long and complicated to go into on all applicable pages.GuruAskew 22:26, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Red Dragon movie.jpg

Image:Red Dragon movie.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 08:11, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Willandgram.jpg

Image:Willandgram.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 03:09, 12 February 2008 (UTC)