Talk:Red Angus

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Contents 1 Merge 2 Where is the table? 3 Mendellian inheritance 4 Differences vs. Black Angus 5 Origin

[edit] Merge

It's been suggested that Red Angus be merged with Angus Cattle. I don't agree with this, because Red Angus have been recognised as a different breed to Angus. However, genetically, the breeds are very similar. There is also many offical Red Angus websites , which shows more about Red Angus and Black Angus being separate breeds. Red Angus Australia as opposed to Black Angus. It talks about the 'Red Angus relatives' here. Please discuss: —Preceding unsigned comment added by CattleGirl (talk • contribs)

I agree, The Red Angus and the Black Angus are different breeds. Yes, they are the same in structure and they have the same Angus name but because of the different colours and genetics they are classified as a different breeds.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Black Angus Girl (talk • contribs)

I also agree and removed it. Three people who know the business should be more than enough votes to end this discussion.Dukemeiser 05:05, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where is the table?

The article refers to a non-existent table depicting color. Where is the table, and more importantly, did someone just copy this content? Is this a copyright violation? RPellessier | Talk 14:29, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, i was going to put this table up but i tried and it didn't work, and i must have forgotten to remove that text. CattleGirl 00:41, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

The table has been uploaded. And it was typed up by me- not a copyright violation. CattleGirl 11:12, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I removed the image table but formatted the contents using a Wiki table. Hope you don't mind. - Fneep 09:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that, i would have done it myself, but i couldn't figure out how the tables work! :) CattleGirl 10:17, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mendellian inheritance

It seems a preponderance of this article is dedicated to a (basic, accurate) summary of Mendelian inheritance. Could it simply be summarized that the red color is a recessive phenotype (with a link to the Mendelian article for those who need to brush up on how exactly all the different combinations work out)? --Steelviper 19:40, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

You're right that most of this article is dedicated to genetics, however, these genetics can mean that the cattle are either Angus cattle or Red Angus. I don't think that that information should be summarised like that, however, i'll put in a link to Mendelian inheritance. CattleGirl 02:01, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

After I posted the above, I noticed the line in "Angus cattle" that says, "Red Angus cattle do occur as the result of a recessive gene". For me, the Recessive gene part covers all the different scenarios outlined with just a couple of words, but maybe I'm too close to the subject to be objective. Genetics (as outlined briefly in the Red Angus Association of America article) are what set them apart, so maybe it's not a bad idea for those concepts to be featured so prominently. --Steelviper 15:03, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Differences vs. Black Angus

While I have worked enough with both Black Angus and Red to appreciate some of their differences, I can see how an outsider might want these articles merged. There is little material that distinguishes the characteristics of the breeds in this article. Is there any citable material that we could reference that talk about the differences in temperment, etc? --Steelviper 19:40, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I too work with both Black Angus and Red Angus, but i disagree with the merging of the articles, as they are two different breeds, and both merit an article of their own. Over the next few days i'll work to put in more information on the breed, and i know of some websites that talk about the differences in Red Angus and Black Angus that i can put in. However, i strongly disagree with merging the two articles, as they are definitely two very separate breeds. CattleGirl 02:04, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't arguing that the two articles be merged, just that more distinguishing/unique information be put over here. My point was that one didn't already know better (and I do), that I could see the argument for the merge given the article contents. I'd just like to see the content of this article "beefed up" (ooh, sorry about that one) so that a reader new to the topic could see why it merits its own article and some of the ways they are different. It sounds like you're on it. Thanks! --Steelviper 14:54, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin

The origin paragraph is confusing, and several statements are doubtful. Rather than putting lots of queries in the text, I'm raising them here first.

It is said that "the Red Angus originally began in Europe", but "was introduced to Scotland and England during raids". However, England and Scotland are European countries -- so where did it originate if not there? Whose raids? Why did it not simply arise in Scotland? And surely this is the origin of the black Angus anyway?

Later it says that the Longhorn is the origin of the red colour in the "Aberdeen Angus". Surely only in the Red Angus? Is there evidence for this origin (there is no shortage of other candidates in Britain)?

There is a discussion of beef prices in the 18th century – all very interesting, but it is not explained how this is relevant to the origin of the breed.

Then there is the claim that the "Angus is the only breed of cattle in the world that started out bred exclusively for beef". As stated this is just plain wrong – I wonder if it's meant to say something else? There must be dozens of cattle breeds that started out in this way (especially in recent decades), and anyway it would be very hard to prove that it applied to an older breed such as the Angus. Perhaps "the first breed"...? Either way, such a claim needs a very convincing reference.

Finally, the "Origin" para does not actually include what to me seems more important and interesting, the origin of polled cattle in Scotland (both Angus and Galloway). It also gives little clue as to what date the Angus began to be regarded as a separate breed.--Richard New Forest 08:53, 8 October 2007 (UTC)