Talk:Reboot (fiction)

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Assessment comments The following comments were left by the assessors: (edit · refresh) Contents 1 Stub class rating as of 2007-10-19 2 Retcon vs. Reboot 3 Enterprise and Video Games 4 GTA IV 5 Origin? 6 Questions 7 Metal Gear Solid 8 Digimon 9 "Official" versions 10 Smallville 11 Casino Royale (2006) 12 Doctor Who??? 13 Ultimate Universe 14 May 1st Reboot 15 Casino Royale and Batman Begins - reboots? 16 Tomb Raider Legend 17 Legend of Zelda 18 Twisted Metal 19 Newhart 20 Would Path of Radiance be considered a reboot? [edit] Stub class rating as of 2007-10-19 Severely defiencent for such an important article: No sources whatsoever, much less reliable ones Extensive original research and opining No coverage of history of the concept, history of the term (which is much, much later), significance/notability, effects, criticism, etc., etc.; does nothing but basically explain the concept and provide a list of rather random examples Not enough exploration of the concept's broader applicability, such as wild retellings of classics as modernistic or even sci-fi reboots (the Beowulf-in-space flick that Christopher Lambert did, various modernizations of Shakespeare in films over the last 20 years), historical reboots long before the age of film and comics, such as radical recastings of the entire Arthurian/Grail cycle; reboots in novel series (third-party reboots of Sherlock Holmes come to mind - Conan-Doyle did one himself! - as does the Young Sherlock Holmes film, which sharply reboots the canonical written material). Speaking of Conan (the barbarian this time), reboots from novels to movies are very, very, very common; so common that something useful as a source has almost certainly be written on the phenomenon from a film analysis point of view. General writing quality could improve. I worked on it a little to fix the most egregious WP:MOS violations and such. Almost all current editing attention seems to be on expanding lists (WP:TRIVIA danger) instead of actually improving the article. Ideally, the lists should be forked into a List of continuity reboots, as this fannish list expansion does absolutely nothing to move this article from Stub to even Start class. Basically, this is written like it came from a fan forum/blog, not an encyclopedia. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 12:22, 19 October 2007 (UTC) (Note: I am not watchlisting this article or comments file, so any issue regarding these comments should be taken to my talk page.)
This article has an assessment summary page.

[edit] Retcon vs. Reboot

In retroactive continuity, the series generally doesn't restart; it just briefly explains things are now different, and carries on with those relatively minor changes, filling in the gaps as it goes. With reboots, it's a whole new ball game, that usually only preserves the core elements. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.67.153.213 (talk) 17:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Enterprise and Video Games

But the Metal Gear Solid series IS arguably a remake in that much of the driving themes that were dominant in the previous games are explored in the current series. When Kojima developed the first Metal Gear Solid title, he did so with the idea in mind of selling his concept to an audience that was largely unfamiliar with his previous titles. While most of the game's cast and setting were entirely new, Metal Gear Solid did retain many of the driving elements from the first 2 titles, and made frequent references to them throughout MGS1's storyline. This was done to help establish a backstory to a game that essentially was being re-introduced to an untested audience. The hardware limitations of the MSX prohibited Kojima from presenting his story in a way he probably would have intended. With the emergence of CD-ROM technology, he was able to transcend some of these barriers, and repackage his series as a cinematic experience.

When you think about movie adaptations that are based on popular comic book character, alot of liberties are taken when developing the screenplay. Revisions are made on certain characters or situations, and sometimes even omitted altogether for the sake of brevity. Yet, most writers are mindful of retaining certain key elements surrounding a character, such as a traumatic event they may have experienced in life, or the nature of their occupation in their civilian life. The X-Men movies have lifted a number of storylines from the comic books, but took certain liberties with aspects of them (i.e. the roster that made up Magneto's Brotherhood of Mutants, Lt. Stryker's profession, The Jean Grey/Phoenix resurrection angle). All differed considerably with their published counterparts. Also, the X-Men animated series that was broadcast on Fox during the 1990's sort of did the same thing in that many of the classic storylines were featured on the show. But again, in many cases, there were often discrepancies between the show and the comic books for a variety of reasons. Characters, and sequential order of events immediately come to mind, but there are probably others as well.

The Battlestar Galactica series on the Sci-Fi channel also plays along this formula as well by slowly and incrementally introducing classic elements into the current plotline, oftentimes sequentially out of order in contrast with the original series.

In this regard, Metal Gear Solid could be seen as a reboot, since much of the themes I've listed above have slowly been integrated into the current storyline. The references to both Outer Heaven and FOX-HOUND in the recent Metal Gear Solid 4 trailer help bolster my point.

1. It's not the same thing to reboot a video game, because 95% of the time it's more of a remake or spin-off. Besides, when a franchise or series is rebooted, it’s the maker’s way of saying "We have too much garbage to put up with, let just start over." So, I’m going to have to delete the game in question.

2. Enterprise is *NOT* a reboot! They said it’s a prequel! A reboot is when someone deletes *everything* that came before. I’m going to have to delete this as well.

Video game continuity CAN be rebooted, but I understand why you removed the Legend of Zelda, since that series doesn't reboot. Star Fox might qualify, since they threw out the story from the original Star Fox and started over with SF64; and there's some evidence that the comic in NP would be part of the canon (a character appeared in an early beta of the cancelled SF2), but SF64 would have rendered that storyline obsolete as well. -- VederJuda 13:07, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GTA IV

Why is GTA 4 on here? We don't know that the game is a reboot of the franchise, just because it used a redesigned Liberty City doesn't make it a reboot (lots of games use updated engines-Age of Empires 3 isn't a reboot just because it redesigns the Britons, it's a sequel). Everything we know about the game (pretty much) is based on a 50-second trailer. I've removed it, and lets keep it off unless someone can come up with evidence for it to be on here. 132.198.84.93 13:45, 7 May 2007 (UTC)Anonymous Coward

Yeah, it's pretty much useless to have GTA IV listed on there, particularly since the GTA games tend not to follow a particular story, aside from references to characters from previous games. Sandwiches99 07:19, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

It is still their saying that none of the characters are mentioned, the main characters of previous games are comformed dead on a wall of some sort (I only read this) and Lasilio is on the radio again!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.134.76.19 (talk) 02:26, 4 June 2008 (UTC) 

[edit] Origin?

Does anyone know when and in what context the term "reboot" crossed over from computer terminology to this usage? The first I recall encountering it was around 1994 or 1995, with discussion of the post-Zero Hour reboot of the Legion of Super-Heroes. --Kelson 23:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Questions

What about when a television animation series is started based on a comic book series? They usually vary quite a bit from each other. Examples: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Sailor Moon. Dustin Asby 21:54, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The Bond Movies had a continuity? Outside of M, Q and R I don't recall continuity being much of an issue...Conan-san 14:48, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Well they do make occasional references to each other, eg. one or two mentions of Bond's wife, and SPECTRE.--Codenamecuckoo 10:10, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Whilst continuity is fairly 'loose' in the Bond movies, it's quite clear that the character and his world do develop. The 1960s Connery films certainly tell a 'story' Bond is introduced to SPECTRE in Dr No, comes into personal conflict with several of its operatives and learns of the organization's goals in From Russia With Love, foils SPECTRE's first 'public' scheme in Thunderball, and finally meets Number One in You Only Live Twice.

It was once Connery left after You Only Live Twice that the producers began using the 'reset button'. In On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Bond and Blofeld fail to recognize each other despite having met two years earlier. Nevertheless, I think it's fair to say that the films have always tacitly implied that everything which went before was part of continuity and, as such, Casino Royale is indeed a reboot.

....... I am very interested in this article and I think that Reboot is a really topical idea. It seems that alot of stuff is being rebooted. I have two points that perhaps someone would like to discuss.

1. I think that including stuff that is referred to as a parial reboot is a cop-out. I can't partially reboot my computer, it is either a reboot or not, TMNT and Superman are just fresh aditions to a series. The term reboot should be consistent if it seeks to be useful.

2. There is a interesting development in music where old bands have reformed and rebooted, coming up with a new image and a new thrust. For example the UK boy band 'Take That' , 'The Police' reforming and 'Rage Against the Machine' for new gigs. I think that this is perhaps a contentious area as they are existing as only a continuation of what has happened before.

What I think is really interesting about developing this article with more clarity is that there is obviously a public interest in popular culture being rebooted. Perhaps the style of the reboot is what is crucial - both Bond and Batman seem very pure reboots and take their cues from making the new film very tangible and plausible. There seems a need to make gaudy larger than life characters alot more real. Could this be with the heightened survielance that people now have of each other, reality TV, Blogs, Celeb personal lives more popular than the work of celebs? There is something there I believe--Peej 15:12, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think the above mentioned trend has led to an excessive overuse of the term. Up until recently, many considered Doom III and Return to Castle Wolfenstein to be modern remakes of their respective originals, but ever since the success of Batman Begins everything game- and moviewise that revisits the first steps in a fictional character's life/career has been called a reboot. Of course, it would be tough to come up with hard evidence on whether the term actually IS being overused or not, but that's not really my point. Rather, it is my intention to adress each and everyone participating in this article to be more careful in their use of the term, before we wind up listing a third of all franchises in the entertainment industry in this article as reboots. Opinions? Broadbandmink 23:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Metal Gear Solid

I deleted the section about Metal Gear Solid because the game (and series) is not a reboot. You can't even argue it. Read the first sentence of the article to get a definition of the word: "Reboot means to discard all previous continuity in the series and start anew." The key word here is continuity. Metal Gear Solid did not discard the previous continuity established with Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. Whether Metal Gear Solid recycles some of the gameplay elements of the previous games means absolutely nothing because the story of the game picks up where the previous one left off. Let's put this ridiculous argument to rest. DT29 9 June 2006

It is a reboot, in that there has since been numerous revisions to the previous storyline in favor of the current. The current series has practically disregarded much of the continuity of the original in order to make way for much of the plotline featured in the current series. In fact, the first Metal Gear Solid game was made with the idea in mind that its targetted audience had not played the original titles, hence the first game's similarity to the Metal Gear 1 & 2 in terms of both storyline and gameplay. But despite casting aside the old in favor of the new, Kojima has been keen to integrate the core elements from the original games into the current series. Themes such as FOX-HOUND, Outer Heaven, and Metal Gear are continuously are featured as integral elements to the series, alongside the new MGS-oriented concepts such as the Patriots and the Cyborg Ninja.

The numerous references to the original Metal Gear series during the first MGS title was for the purpose of establishing a backstory for Solid Snake's character. That makes sense, given that most of the gamers that Kojima was targetting (from the West in particular)were largely unfamiliar with the previous 2 titles. The success of the first MGS enabled for Kojima to branch his series out into a niche franchise. And with each passing installment in the current series, he has become less and less dependant on the original for source material.

With technology at his disposal that he had lacked during his early years as a game developer, Kojima is now slowly but surely creating a revisionist take on his own series; and retelling it from a cinematic standpoint.

It's often a formula used when bringing comic book characters to the big screen. In this instance, screenwriters pick and choose which classic themes, characters, and situations are to be incorperated into the main storyline, inevitably discarding a great deal of official canon along the way. It should also be noted that in many cases, discarded themes are re-incorperated back into a comic book series, even after it has undergone a reboot.

Crackhead Bob -- 6/18/2006

[edit] Digimon

Not that anyone cares, but what about Digimon? I think that the Digimon Tamers weren't too much of a reboot, but the forth season definitly was... 68.228.33.74 09:23, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Official" versions

Near the beginning of the article, it says, "This differs from a creator producing a separate interpretation of another creator's work; rather, the owner of the creation declares that the rebooted continuity is now the official version."

My experience with the term reboot is limited mainly to comics and Transformers, but in those domains at least, this statement is definitely not true. Sometimes a reboot "replaces" the old stuff (Crisis on Infinite Earths, for example), but usually it's just a "new version". Often the reboot exists alongside the original, as is the case with Marvel's Ultimate books, and even the X-Men: Evolution cartoon which the article provides as an example. I would imagine that the term is used that way in most other fandoms as well, but, I don't want to just assume that my experience is universal and change it without at least bringing it up here. Any opinions?

--Steve-o 17:18, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, it is debatable but I think I know what the author of the sentence intended. I think the author was trying to distingush a reboot from simply another interpretation. For example, in the Battlestar Galactica and Batman Begins reboots, the intent was to effectively stop production on the previous continuity completely. No new movies will follow after Batman and Robin and no new TV will be produced off the old BSG. By comparison, with the Ultimate series (which it has been noted in the article is not a true reboot) which is just a separate interpretation, the existence of the reboot does not preclude new production based on the old continuity. That distinction is probably what the author was trying to highlight. Does that make sense? Mucus 17:54, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I can see that what you are describing is internally consistent. What I'm saying is that -- in my experience -- it is not consistent with the way the term is actually used. In your BSG and Batman examples, neither of the prior incarnations has been in production for many years, so I think it's off target to say that the "intent" of the new versions was to "stop production" on the old ones. Plus, there are at least three other Batman continuities currently running (the regular Batman comics, the Justice League Unlimited comics, and "The Batman" cartoon and comic), and a new comic book series based on the original BSG show has just launched as well. So, really neither of them matches the statement in the article that I am objecting to... There are other current, official versions that contradict them. Yet I would agree that the new BSG and Batman Begins *are* reboots. They just don't claim to "replace" the old stories. There are multiple "official versions". --Steve-o 00:40, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

*Shrug* I'm not particularly attached to the current definition, but I would say that my interpretation of those two franchises would be different from yours. Thus, to answer your question, your experience might not necessarily be universal. Anyways, if you can find a better way of explaining the difference between a reboot and a reinterpretation, then feel free to be bold. Mucus 05:42, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smallville

Shouldn't Smallville be listed on this page? It's obviously a reboot of Superman.

[edit] Casino Royale (2006)

I'm not sure how this would apply but I have heard on tv from the film company that Casino Royale is not an official reboot. Apparently it is a prequel to the other movies but set in the present day. This could be so it allows them to reference Bond's "previous" missions in Quantum of Solace. JP Godfrey (Talk to me) 09:59, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

That information was false, as it's been confirmed numerous times by Wilson and Brocoli that Casino Royale is a reboot of the James Bond franchise. Bond 22 has also been confirmed to be a direct sequel to Casino Royale, making it the first true 007 sequel. Therefore, none of the original 20 missions will be referenced. Brandon Rhea 04:50, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

What about the latest Pink Panther prequel film with Steve MArtin, and the REturn to the Castle Wolfenstein game? Pictureuploader 10:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Doctor Who???

The Doctor Who series is not a reboot. I've never seen it described as such nor have I (as a fan) ever considered it as such. It is a direct follow on to the previous series as can be seen by the inclusion of such characters as K9 and Sarah-Jane Smith. Before I delete this I'd like to take a few opinions on it. AlanD 22:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

It would appear that this has been deleted already. AlanD 23:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ultimate Universe

How is that a reboot in the terms mentioned in the first paragraph of the article? I'd only say the marvel universe was rebooted if all the original titles restarted. --Charlesknight 09:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

The Ultimate Universe is a reboot. It is not a reboot of the whole universe but it certainly is one of selected characters. AlanD 14:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Then again I see your point. It is perhaps more of a reimagining... Crisis was a reboot... mmmm actually I think you may be right there. AlanD 14:22, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I think if we are going to call something a reboot - the original has to cease - other we are talking about a version, no? --Charlesknight 14:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes I agree. AlanD 15:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] May 1st Reboot

I've just removed the mention of the May 1st Reboot, as it does not fit the description of this article, i.e. it is not a discarding of the history and continuity of the involved websites.

According to the organizing website it's...

"... designers subscribing to one event in order to publisise their work..." Pjbflynn 20:44, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Casino Royale and Batman Begins - reboots?

I'm not convinced that Casino Royale (2006) is a reboot, as it is part of a series that does not follow strict continuity anyway (just as well, really, or the movie Bond would now be about 75 years old, and Connery would still be playing him!) "Reboot" suggests that the previous 20 Bonds were all part of a "single session", with no discrepancies or contradictions - which evidently wasn't the case.

I'm also struggling to see how Batman Begins is a reboot and not a prequel. Does the movie directly contradict the events of the previous four movies?

It's fairly difficult to grasp these distinctions given that "reboot" (in this sense) isn't exactly an everyday turn of phrase. Every moviegoer - every man in the street - has a clear understanding of what a prequel is, but most people would have difficulty getting their heads around the concept of a reboot. It's more of a fandom thing. 217.34.39.123 15:44, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The next time you want to get in on the discussion, don't create new discussion categories for subjects that are already on the talk page. Your question about Casino Royale has already been asked and answered: it's a reboot because the studio said so, it doesn't have to "directly contradict" anything...if the studio says they're "starting over," then it's a reboot. Even if it doesn't "contradict" anything, they've already given themselves the freedom to contradict things in the future. Everything they did before doesn't count. Get it?

The same applies to Batman Begins. The studio made it clear they were starting a brand new series, that it was completely disconnected from the existing series. Did it "directly contradict" much? Of course not...they still have to stay within the confines of Bob Kane's original creation, otherwise it just wouldn't be Batman. But it's still a reboot, simply because the studio says so. And besides: it DID contradict plenty of facts from the previous film, especially the circumstances of the Waynes' murders.

I don't see what's so hard about understanding the concept of a "reboot." It simply means they're starting over. In the simplest terms, it's a remake...not a remake of a film, but a remake of a whole series. What's so hard to understand about that? If moviegoers get confused, it's probably because of foolish members of the media that simply don't do their homework. Lots of people thought Casino Royale was a prequel because the media stupidly TOLD THEM that. Gotham23 13:48, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The next time you want to reply to another editor, raising questions in good faith, with such a haughty and hostile tone, maybe you'll go do something else instead. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 12:23, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Does Batman Begins directly contradict the events of the previous four movies? Yes. In Tim Burton's Batman (1988), The Joker was the man who killed Bruce Wayne's parents. In Batman Begins, their killer was Joe Chill, as in the comics, and the Joker only appears at the end Nick xylas 15:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tomb Raider Legend

Yeah I'd have to disagree and say this definitely isnt a reboot. What "tragic events" happened in the last 3 TR games that contradicts with this one? For one, Lara never died, if that's what was meant. There were no previously dead characters that came back to life in Legend or anything.

This last installment was pretty different from the other ones, I'm guessing they were trying to make it more like the movie. But even with the new guys in the manor there's nothing contradictory that says this is a reboot and not just a continuation of the series

so I'm gonna delete that part from this article, and if anyone has a problem with that then they can put it back. Radioactive Cactus 8:15, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Someone ought to bring this issue over to the Tomb Raider Legend-article, as that particular article clearly states that the game works as a reboot plotwise. What about Tomb Raider Anniversary? Should it be considered a reboot or remake? Broadbandmink 23:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Legend of Zelda

According to the article, none of the games follow on from the previous game, and the creators themselves say there isn't a connection. So this entire section is here just because a few fans think there is a tenuous connection?? Delete?VonBlade 21:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, if the series has no continuity the it is not possible to reboot the continuity. Neitherday 14:41, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Twisted Metal

I've removed Twisted Metal: Black from the list of video game examples, as it's not a reboot of the Twisted Metal series. It portrays the Twisted Metal universe from the viewpoint of a specific character. ("This is how he sees the world, how Sweet Tooth sees his life.") It's like a Batman movie that's told from the perspective of the Joker. An entire Talk page could probably be filled discussing the continuity issues inherent in such a story, but it's difficult to consider it a definite reboot when you take Twisted Metal: Head-On into account, which references both the "colorful world" of Twisted Metal 2 and the "dark world" of Twisted Metal: Black. DT29 21:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Newhart

Would it be correct to say the final episode of the television series Newhart rebooted itself into the timeline of The Bob Newhart Show ? Wlindley 13:49, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Would Path of Radiance be considered a reboot?

The reason why i ask that is because the article for this game says that the setting is completely unrelated to the previous installments. 68.147.223.143 (talk) 03:30, 21 January 2008 (UTC)