Talk:Realms of Despair

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[edit] Forum link

For some reason somebody keeps removing valid information from this article. To whit, a link to a forum hosted by players of the game. This seems peculiar, especially in the light that there are other links to forums and player founded organisations in this article.

The other deletion pertains to the current status of the administration's policy. This policy can be summed up by a reference to an in game help file, Help Rights:

RIGHTS You have the right to remain silent or to hit the off button at any time.

There are also logged instances of high ranking administrators agreeing that this is the party line. If desired, these can be displayed for further verification. I'm hoping that whoever keeps vandalising the page by removing information will read this and desist. Afterall, Wikipedia is meant to be a neutral area to present information, not about furthering people's agendas or public defacements. --58.166.60.157 08:35, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

This is not the administrative stance for all players. That statement was only directed towards abusive, disruptive players who spoil the enjoyment of other players. The "help" page in question was very old, not reflective of administrative policy, and has been removed. Defamation to this article could be considered libel, and may result in punitive action. Please keep your personal opinions to your own forums and blogs. They do not belong here. --Thoric 20:58, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

In order to prove libel, you need two components: 1) the statement made is false, and 2) loss or harm resulted from said statement. In order to bring punitive charges, proof must be given that the loss or harm was financial in nature. If you can prove a financial loss because of the statements made that you allege to be libel, then you've also proven that you're in violation of the DIKU license, to which Realms is subject. --Sammysamwfu 18:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

1) The statement you keep placing on the article is false. 2) Punitive means punishment, and does not imply something financial. 3) With libel, the burden of proof is on the defendant. 4) Financial loss is not a requirement for libel. 5) Realms of Despair has no income, therefore there is no violation of the DIKU license. Have you ever paid a cent to play Realms? I don't think so. --Thoric 21:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Per Wikipedia policy, bulletin boards are not considered a reliable source. See Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Reliable sources for more details on what's considered acceptable, as well as Wikipedia:Neutral point of view for information on how criticism should be presented. It doesn't matter if the claims being made are true or not -- that's not the measurement by which content gets included in the encyclopedia. -/- Warren 21:08, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

immortals have the right to not read forum pages....or wikipedia for that matter. it'd be shame if you all spent some time improving the game, instead of running around like chickens with your heads cut off trying to stop every negative comment the players post.67.177.152.137 18:16, 20 February 2007 (UTC)Mike

I'm glad to see that things have calmed down. However, I'd like to point out that legal threats are against official Wikipedia policy. --GentlemanGhost (talk) 20:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I would like to make it clear that I did not make a "legal threat". The punitive action I was referring to was within the jurisdiction of the game. --Thoric (talk) 05:38, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Acticle should not be deleted

Notability allows for pages which are notable within their own community group. As MMORPGs are in themselves significantly notable (i.e. numerous mentions in mainstream media, an entire South Park episode based around Worlds of Warcraft), and MUDs are the historical predecessors to MMORPGs, and MUDs in general are significant enough for a Wikipedia article, notable MUDs (i.e. MUDs which have a significant place in the historical lineage of MUDs in general), are most definitely notable, and should not be deleted. Realms of Despair is such a MUD based on the following criteria:

1. Longevity - this MUD has been operating for over 13 years without going offline
2. Popularity - this MUD has maintained a player base of well over 15,000 active player files for more than ten years of its operation, and had regularly surpassed 500 simultaneous player connections during its peak popularity (40,000 active player files during this time)
3. Community contribution - Realms of Despair is the development ground for the SMAUG MUD code base. This code is used by literally hundreds of active MUDs.

As for references in other media (besides being listed on a large number of websites), Realms of Despair was featured in a newspaper article in the Toronto Star (Canada's highest circulation newspaper), as well as a MUD specific magazine (The MUD Companion). It should also be noted that Google returns over 17,000 hits for "Realms of Despair". --Thoric 15:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)