Talk:Rat Terrier

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I don't know how this wikidedia stuff works but this article on Rat Terriers is incorrect.

Contents

[edit] The math seems off

If you do the math the record-holding terrier would have to kill one rat every 10 seconds for 7 hours straight to hit that 2501 mark. This seems...possible, but extremely unlikely. Is there a reference or something that can be placed in the article to back up that claim?

Depends which organization you are discussing... the UKC now recognizes the TRT as a separate breed. However the NRTA, which has been maintaining registries for decades, does not. Article now reflects both perspectives in keeping with the NPOV. Macboots 04:50, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of the Rat Terrier.

Okay, this is beggining to bug and confuse me, I have read the article and the external links over. The article itself states that the RT originated in England and was developed in america. The external links give the same info:

"It is said that in 1820 England, the cross of Manchester Terrier and Smooth Fox Terrier was made. It proved to be one of the best mixtures in the sport of rat baiting. They were called or named Rat Terriers."

Would this not make the country of origin England and the Country of Development America. Even though they are more known in America, and a great deal of the history of the breed is in America. Isnt England still the true country of origin? Tekana | Talk 09:10, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Huh. OK. I'll see whether I can find some more definitive info *somewhere* and respond here. Elf | Talk 18:33, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Ta elf. as I have said, its really beginning to bug me Tekana | Talk 19:21, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, I'd question that quote--like someone was standing around in 1820 to notate the first cross of a Manchester Terrier and a Smooth Foxie? I think not.
Your logic is correct, Tekana. Trouble is, people don't know the true origins of these little terriers. The term rat terrier is still used in Ireland, e.g. for a range of types of little rodent routers, crossed with Lord-only-knows-what.
So the question is, is todays American Rat Terrier a direct descendent of ratting terriers brought over from England? I'm guessing not; my vote would be for parallel development of the rat terrier in the New World (and Europe and Australasia and...and...) making the Rat Terrier American in the same way as the Mini Foxie and Tentie are descended from English dogs but the country of origin is without a doubt Australia.
Now, compare this to the JRT, where the type itself was undisputedly developed in England and brought over to Australia already as an identifyable type-cum-breed thingy, but was not recognized in England. So Australia got credit for being the country of development.
Clear as mud;? Quill 22:55, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

In my readings of rat terriers (back to the first comment about Teddy Roosevelt rats) there are 2 body types: A & B. The first is taller and the second has much shorter legs and are known as "Teddy" rats, no doubt because they resemble Teddy's rats. Both are rat terriers and are recognized by the UKC, as such. If you want definitive characteristics go to NRTA website. katsrap--Kath 16:17, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Facts are facts .... why are you only allowing the mention of the UKC( which began recognizing RT's in 1999, a mere 7yrs ago!), and the ARTA? Why not be factual about the registeries that recognize the RT ... and include the UKCI (which was the first registry to accept the RT, and has been recognizing the them since the 1930's)? No inclusion of the NRTA either.

I also find it humorous that you mention the TOY aspect of the breed, yet you fail to understand that none of your "approved" registeries recognize the toy size. Only the Miniatures and the Standards are registerable with the UKC, ARTA, and the AKC FSS, as they claim that the TOY doesn't exist. It's fairly obvious to someone well versed in the subject of Rat Terriers, that this article if full of holes.

Oh, and another FACT that I would like to make clear .... Rat Terriers with the Decker Bloodline are called DECKER GIANTS not Giant Deckers!

Are all Rat Terrier owners this anal? I just saved a puppy from the local shelter and I hope I don't get this way. (Patrick)

[edit] are you against rescuing dogs???

please replace the two dog rescue sites that were added on this page. there's nothing commercial about helping needy dogs find homes!

removal of those links is questionable at best, offensive at worst.

jen. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.217.75.61 (talk • contribs) .

Quite the opposite, I am a foster for a rescue, and two of my own dogs came rescue (one from my rescue, one from another) as well. In the end, wikipedia is not a web directory, so listings of 'where to get dogs' are not allowed - the article would become overwhelmed with them, there are so many. If you think it's offensive, think of it this way: wikipedia is not a soap box, we have to support the neutral point of vew - wikipedia can not say that "rescues are better places to get the dogs", so equal time would have to be given to the back yard breeder and the pet store (which also are not allowed). DO you want that? Promotion of web sites or services (even non-commercial ones, or ones for a good cause) is not allowed, so we don't list anything at all. - Trysha (talk) 21:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I disagree. Backyard breeders and pet shops are commercial operations, while dog rescues are not-for-profit (usually). If there are breed-specific dog rescues, or a nonprofit animal rescue operation that has many animals of this type of breed, it would be appropriate to list that in the "external links" section. Every single one could not be listed, but one or two could be listed. If it cannot be decided which ones to list, then it can be left off, but I believe it would add to the article. --Gloriamarie 01:12, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

A fact that is clear upon reading the feisty comments above is that dogs and those humans who like and/or own a breed do resemble each other! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.7.142.220 (talk • contribs) . -- Trysha (talk) 16:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Photo of Ears

I noticed all photos of the Rat Terriers on this page have tipped ears. In my experience working with rat terriers, this is less common than the upright variety...

As such I inserted a photo of a rat terrier with upright ears.--Macboots 17:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Size Categories?

Where are these size categories coming from?

"There are 5 distinct sizes of Rat Terrier: toy tot, or tiny tot; toy; miniature; standard and Decker Giant, as discussed above."

The AKC recognizes no distinct size categories, and the UKC recognizes a miniature and standard. Including Deckers as a distinct size is certainly arguable, but I can't find any source listing "tiny tot" or "toy."

Additionally, listing five sizes seems inconsistent with the preceding paragraph, which only discusses three (namely toy, standard, and Deckers). Unless these five sizes are common distinctions for breeders to use, recommend we clean this up as it seems artificial. Options seem to be: a citation be found and inserted for the 5 sizes, we conform to the UKC definition of miniature and standard (13"-18" for standard), or go with the AKC definition and don't discuss distinct sizes at all. Macboots 02:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

After conducting more research, it appears the NRTA does indeed recognize a toy size. As the NRTA predates breed standardization movements and is the largest umbrella of groups opposed to UKC/AKC recognition, it would seem there should be some mention of their standards in the article... Macboots 13:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible Trojan...can anyone confirm?

When clicking on the "A Rat Terrier Posing" photo, I receive a notification that the object contains a threat to my computer...a Trojan virus variety. No other photo on the page, when clicked, gives me this warning.

Can anyone confirm this?

Tried it an no such warning appeared. You must be mistaken --138.49.23.81 19:12, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments on Tone

A tag was placed commenting on inappropriate tone... however the tone tag is used mainly for inappropriate voice or informal articles. As there are no comments here on the talk page indicating what problems there were with the tone, I'm removing the tag for now. Any Wikipedians who feel there is an inappropriate tone, please replace the tag and leave a comment here on what needs correcting. Macboots (talk) 01:49, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rat Terriers

They are cute kind and adorable! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.19.191.16 (talk) 02:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC)