Talk:Rashōmon

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[edit] Suggestion of moving the article

The name of the gate was Rajomon(羅城門), not Rashomon(羅生門). Akutagara wrote a novel "Rashomon", and Kurosawa directed a film of the novel. The character 城 means castle(or city), and 生 means life. Akutagawa may have changed the character to express life and death. The article is about the gate itself, so I suggest to move the article to Rajomon.--Mochi 19:43, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

城門 is pronounced じょうもん(jōmon), but I'm not sure 羅城門 was definitely always らじょうもん(rajōmon). Google hits are split, and the 2005 manga Otogi Zōshi by Narumi Seto, which is set in the Heian period, definitely has furigana らしょうもん(rashōmon) for 羅城門 on page 49 and other pages. There may have been a pronunciation change sometime in history; it may have to do with the dakuten (and its associate voiced sounds) not being part of the phonology or writing system back then. pfahlstrom 00:10, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why is this included in Mythical/Sacred Locations of Japanese Mythology?

The article doesn't make any mention of Japanese mythology other than citing an obscure legend. Either the place of this gate in hte mythology should be expressed, or it should be removed from the Japanese Mythology series. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.0.124.130 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Image

The image on jaWiki [1] is a much better shot showing the entire pole and the fence, and it's under GFDL, though it's not on commons so I recommend copying it over here.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  04:29, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

By all means do. My old photo is ready to be retired. Fg2 04:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
I just added the second photo. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rashōmon vs. Rajōmon

After further study, I believe this article should be at Rajōmon. The Japanese article uses "Rajōmon" exclusively. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:59, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Agree Fg2 09:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Disagree. Correct or not, Rashōmon is the most common pronounciation used in English, not unlike Godzilla instead of Gojira. A note should be made of the pronounciation, but the title should be kept as it is. MightyAtom 04:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
That's the most common pronunciation of the Kurosawa film and perhaps the Akutagawa novel (although English has no macron). The gate itself is not so widely known that English matters. So I still favor the "j" for the gate. Fg2 10:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Even Kyoto's official site [2] calls the gate "Rajomon" in English). ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:42, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Well my Japanese wife says that the most common pronounciation is Rashōmon...I just asked her. :P I think most people looking this up would know the term Rashōmon from the book and movie. I am not opposed to moving it, so long as there is a re-direct for misplaced searches. MightyAtom 11:32, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
So far I am not convinced about a Rajomon, because I think the term Rashomon is by far more widely known. Gryffindor 16:51, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, Rashomon is more widely known by far as a name for the film, not as a name for the gate. But this discussion is not about the film; it's about the gate. The gate is pretty much unknown in English. Arguments about widespread pronunciations of the name of the film aren't particularly relevant. Fg2 20:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
It seems likely many people, in and out of Japan, will have first heard of the gate through the film (or story).--Cúchullain t/c 21:38, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. And the link from the articles on the film and the short story to the article on the gate, at the proper spelling for the gate, will make it easy for them to find out about the gate. It's unlikely that readers will look for the gate first, so we don't have to worry about them being unable to find the gate when we locate the article at the correct spelling. (Also, redirects will make it even easier.) The articles on the film and the short story won't be moved, so they'll remain easy to find. Fg2 06:51, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
What are the Japanese calling it now? - check japanese brochures, websites

[edit] More about Rajōmon (羅城門)

Neither Nara nor Kyoto were walled cities in the sense that we in the West today usually think of a fortified, defensible metropolis. Nor were there castles built in these cities. "Castle gate" would therefore seem to me to be a poor translation. An alternate meaning for "jōmon" is "city gate" which fits very well. The Rajōmon gate served more of a ceremonial function than anything else.

"Raseimon" (羅生門) is an impossible reading for this compound word.

Oldbubblehead 00:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)