Talk:Rapunzel (2010 film)

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Contents 1 AfD 2 Content 3 New links 4 POV 5 Barry Manilow 6 The Other Rapunzel (Bluth) 7 Not a full-length feature film 8 Comedy 9 Please no kitsch!

[edit] AfD

Rationale for use on AfD subpage is:

unreferenced speculation, WP:NOT a crystal ball

Thanks. 81.104.165.184 18:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

What specualtion? Everything is based in information. You didn't even try to do a single search to see if at least something was correct? That's lazy. I assume some links are already mentioned in the article, so I might repeat something; http://mag.awn.com/index.php?ltype=pageone&article_no=2684&page=6 "So with Rapunzel Keane is trying to bring drawing into CG by applying basic design principles. He admits that it’s a big leap forward for both character performance and environment. For inspiration, Keane and his animators are referencing a painting by French Rococo artist Jean-Honore Fragonard, The Swing, applying a certain richness that they have never attained in animation before." "Kyle Strawitz really helped me start to believe that the things I wanted to see were possible… that you could move in a Disney painterly world. He took the house from Snow White and built it and painted it so that it looked like a flat painting that suddenly started to move, and it had dimension and kept all of the soft, round curves of the brushstrokes of watercolor. Kyle helped us get that Fragonard look of that girl on the swing… We are using subsurface scattering and global illumination and all of the latest techniques to pull off convincing human characters and rich environments." http://www.spoiler3.blogger.com.br/DISNEY%20UPCOMING%208.jpg

http://mag.awn.com/index.php?ltype=pageone&article_no=2684&page=5 "Paul is at the forefront of [helping bring this into the computer], because he knows what makes a painting a painting; it’s not just how a brush stroke looks because we’ve gone way beyond that since Tarzan. It has to do with how light and paint interact with each other… that luminosity, the layering, which makes a huge difference."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/10/23/financial1010EDT0052.DTL In an early version, Mr. Keane noticed that his famous mermaid didn't seem like herself. "There was a deadness in her eyes, a dull quality," he says. The shoulders seemed stiff. She also wasn't hitting what old-time Disney artists call "the golden poses," the few memorable images that sell each character to the audience. Fixing the piece required combining the experienced eye of a traditional animator with the computer chops of someone from the new school. Mr. Keane drew by hand what he wanted and superimposed it over the computer-animated image. At one point, his team worked for nearly a week trying to light up Ariel's smile by pushing her cheeks up and creating little creases around her eyes. "The Ariel project was a testing ground for forcing a CG figure into a hand-drawn look," Mr. Keane says. "We made the computer bend its knee to the artist, rather than the artist bend its knee to the computer." "He put together a presentation called "The Best of Both Worlds," which listed the strengths and weaknesses of each genre, and called a meeting to discuss it. "Immediately, you could feel the polarization of the two groups," Mr. Keane says." "To clear the air, Mr. Keane convened a retreat of about 25 artists at the Huntington Library in San Marino, Calif. The discussion focused on redesigning Disney's production process to enhance collaboration. Disney had already been tweaking standard computer-animation software to make it more intuitive for newcomers. At the retreat, the artists got a look at an even simpler tool the company has been developing, which would allow artists to control the movements of their computer characters by drawing on a screen with a pencil-like stylus, rather than using a mouse." "Mr. Keane and other artists often didn't like what they saw on screen in computer animation. While they admired the storytelling and characters in the computer-generated movies made by Pixar and others, many of them saw the art itself as crude, especially in its attempts to capture the complexity of a human form. "If you look at Fiona in `Shrek,"' Mr. Keane says, "her shoulders never seem to move." He decided that embracing computer animation would mean "I would have to go backwards from what I do by hand."

http://cinematech.blogspot.com/2005/09/disney-moves-away-from-hand-drawn.html "I loved 'Shrek,' " Mr. Keane responded. But the characters, particularly Princess Fiona, looked plastic to him. "Every frame of that film was a bad drawing to me, personally," he said.

http://www.cinemareview.com/production.asp?prodid=3178 A great example of adapting “squash and stretch” for CG animation is the big baseball game in “Chicken Little.” "CG Supervisors Kevin Geiger and Kyle Odermatt and their team came up with these tools to bring more elasticity to the facial performance, and help animators approximate the range they would normally have with traditional animation. “Chicken Wire” is a collection of wire deformers that add extra functionality. These tools specifically address the common complaint that computer animation is too puppet-like or mannequin-ish." "And finally, for those animators who come from a drawing background, new electronic tablet screens allow them to rough out their characters’ movements using digital sketches. Similar to drawn thumbnails, the computer keeps track of each successive electronic drawing and allows the animator to block out their performance in 2D in minutes. Goldberg concludes, “‘Chicken Little’ has laid a foundation for making CG features that all future Disney films will benefit from. We have the ability to create anything the story guys can come up with. We can create it and art-direct it in a way that I don’t think any other studio can realize. The Studio brings over 80 years of animation experience to the medium, and our goal is to carry that wonderful legacy forward in the new digital frontier. We are not driven by technology, but control the technology to make it do what we want it to do."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/19/business/disney.php Keane, a 31-year veteran who created the beast from "Beauty and the Beast" and Ariel from "The Little Mermaid," was a Disney traditionalist. But after a series of experiments to see whether he could create a computer-animated ballerina, his opposition softened. So he invited the 50 animators to discuss the pros and cons of both art forms, calling his seminar "The Best of Both Worlds." For an hour, Keane listed the pluses and minuses of each technique while the other animators listened quietly.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=20944

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/printer_friendly.php?ID=1589 "I found my inspiration for the look of this film in a painting called 'The Swing,'" Keane continued. "It was painted by a French Rocco artist named Jean-Honore Fragonard. Just look at how rich this imagery is. It's like there's butter between the brush strokes." Glen challenged "Rapunzel" art director Lisa Keane to come up with a look that was at least as rich as the world suggested in Fragonard's painting. And wonder of wonders, Lisa was actually able to pull that off in a CG format. With these big steps forward, Glen was now able to start moving "Rapunzel Unbraided" in the direction that he wanted. Which was a Disney CG feature that -- while it still had all the strengths & virtues that a traditionally animated film had -- still looked and felt like nothing that Disney Feature Animation had ever done before."

http://www.ualberta.ca/~ntam/2005_11_01_archive.html The visual concept behind Rapunzel Unbraided - an oil painting that moves in 3D space - is one of the most exciting developments I've heard of about the future of the now rather unexciting movie business, which has with few exceptions become aesthetically stagnant now that the wonders of technology are peaking.

Another comment on a board; " And I’ve heard Disney has created such software for Keane’s Rapunzel Unbraided. Drawing forcelines and silhouettes on a tablet pc in the animation table. I believe it was shown at Siggraph last year… Who knows, maybe they’ll show it again this year? If so, I hope to hear about it, cause that seems to be the most awesome way to animate ever. Keeping the 2D feeling but having more depth as a result."

I remeber even some more links about comments on how this movie is going to be made and how those who saw the test at SIGGRAPT really thought it was like a painting coming to life, but this is probably enough for now. The last link is just referring to an opinion, but it is very well said. If you don't like how the article is written, why din't you write it with your own words instead?

-- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.216.91.183 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Content

Let's not excise large portions of the content until the AfD is done. Besides, it's obvious this information came from somewhere, we just need to find out where. Powers 11:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I've yet again trimmed out the bits with shades of POV, and the paragraph on technique still doesn't really meet the creiteria for verifiability since you'd need two sources to back them up (for obvious reasons), and each part is only reported in one. Of course, the fact that it's been reported doesn't change the fact that it's still speculation until it's certain the film is in the can and ready for release. 81.104.165.184 13:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean about needing two sources. Powers 17:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

(Personal attack removed) After all, we are just talking about an upcoming movie and are referring to what has already been mentioend about ambitions, attempts, technlogy and techniques in serious articles and interviews. All is mentioned in the links I have posted above (including support on the "citation needed" stuff). "The fact that it's been reported doesn't change the fact that it's still speculation until it's certain the film is in the can and ready for release." I guess that sentence says it all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.216.121.100 (talk • contribs)

I'd have thought that was obvious. One source for a statement of fact, and another one to back it up. 81.104.165.184 10:46, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not require two sources for every assertion. If a source is reliable, that's usually considered sufficient. Powers 15:51, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New links

OK, I have now posted a link that are relevent for the "citation needed" parts (which I have removed). The link http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi? , does not work anymore, so I have linked to a discussion board where the whole article is copied instead. In my opinion, it doesn't belong here becasue it is about Disney animation in generel, not about Rapunzel Unbraided exclusively. But since some seems to be so difficult that they thinks the whole thing should be deleted if there isn't any links where the information can be verified, it belongs there at least for the moment as all the information that is needed can be found in it and the references. 193.217.133.119 09:49, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts, however, a message board is not an acceptable reference for Wikipedia articles (see WP:RS). 81.104.165.184 10:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

It is not an opinion on a message board, what is posted is a direct copy of an article. You have to be pretty paranoid to think it is all made up. Like it said, the original artciel does no longer exist, but here is a google version of it: http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:vXpXmRHCfikJ:www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi%3Ff%3D/news/archive/2003/10/23/financial1010EDT0052.DTL+Keane+Rapunzel+Disney+deadness+golden&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1

Nobody is saying it is made up, only that message boards are not acceptable references. 81.104.165.184 13:03, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV

To reiterate the POV issues:

Rapunzel Unbraided will have a unique look ...

To suggest it's unique is a value judgement, which NPOV does not allow us to make. Of course, if there are enough (i.e. considerably more than just one) sources around which suggest it's unique, then we can say that provided it's attributed (i.e. we state that others think it is unique).

... a single frame from the upcoming movie is going to look much like a painting or a drawing that comes to life when played ...

Again, what constitutes "coming to life" is a value judgement. If enough people in the real world make the suggestion, then we can include it, properly attributed.

While the the movements ... are known to be much stiffer and artificial ...

That's an opinion, but whose is it? It's certainly not Wikipedia's opinion, since that needs to be neutral.

Legendary Disney lead animator Glen Keane ...

Again, legendary in whose opinion?

the experiences and knowledge from decades of traditional animation are forming the building ground where CGI is going to add new layers of animation techniques to those already present

Ugh. Sales talk.

I'm also concerned about the "concept art", which has been tagged with {{promotional}}, yet without a definitive source at Disney to suggest that they are. 81.104.165.184 11:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

"Unique" is not a value judgement. If it hasn't been done before, it's unique; it's not really a matter of opinion. Perhaps the word "novel" or "unseen" or "different" would suit you better?

"coming to life" and "stiffer and artificial" are arguable either way. I don't see them as opinions, but just as slightly more colorful language.

Glen Keane is a legendary animator in nearly everyone's opinion. Widely acclaimed people don't need sources to state that they're widely acclaimed. Perhaps a slightly more neutral term could be found, like "Acclaimed"?

The experiences and knowledge passage sounds fine to me. It's true, isn't it? Do you have a suggested alternative wording?

The concept art is also questionable, I agree. I would not object to its removal. However, I do think it qualifies as promotional artwork, since it appears to have come from SIGGRAPH last year. Powers 12:48, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course "unique" is a value judgement. Wikipedia can happily say something is not unique, since the prior art will be evident, however, you can't provide evidence that there is has been nothing like it. As previously stated, if you have a citation for someone else describing it as unique, then it can be included as such (but not in the form as it was when I removed it).

"coming to life" and "stiffer and artificial" are beyond doubt critical opinions. You can't say on a factual basis that something is "stiff and artificial", since it requires appreciation.

Nearly-universal opinion and neutral opinion are not one and the same. That everyone thinks he's legendary doesn't mean it's acceptable to summarily describe him as such. There will be people who disagree.

"experiences and knowledge": The sentence combines everyone's favourite failings - sales talk, speculation, opinion, etc. It's another value judgement, and not self-evident.

For the concept art, we need an "audit trail". If the images don't come from disney.com (with a statement that they're intended for promotional use), we need to be able to trace them back. Stuff from a third-party site is no use when we don't even know for sure that they have permission to use it. 81.104.165.184 13:25, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Rapunzel Unbraided will have a unique look ...

What do you think all the fuzz in the animation industry is about? It is because what they are trying to do has never been done before.

... a single frame from the upcoming movie is going to look much like a painting or a drawing that comes to life when played ...

It is not the "coming to life" part that is the main subject here, but what a single frame from the movie looks like. ("He took the house from Snow White and built it and painted it so that it looked like a flat painting that suddenly started to move, and it had dimension and kept all of the soft, round curves of the brushstrokes of watercolor. http://www.spoiler3.blogger.com.br/DISNEY%20UPCOMING%208.jpg ) "Coming to life" only means that it is going to be like a drawing that starts to move and have dimension when the film is played.

While the the movements ... are known to be much stiffer and artificial ...

No, it is not an opinion. Everybody can see how much more fluid the movements are in hand drawned Disney movies compared to the stiffness seen in the CGI movies made so far. That's not an opinion, but a fact.

Legendary Disney lead animator Glen Keane ...

I'm sure articles found in New York Times and other famous newspapers and magazines are using words are "legendary" about people too sometimes. Like I already have mentioned a lot of time, why not replace the words with some new ones if they seems to be incorrect, instead of deleting the whole thing.

the experiences and knowledge from decades of traditional animation are forming the building ground where CGI is going to add new layers of animation techniques to those already present

Actually, it is true. The squash and stretch and all the other rules created be the nine old men, as well as the experience from those who are trained in traditional animation at the studio, are going to be used in the future computer animated features from Disney, but it is just now that the technology has advanced enough to make it possible to do on computers that earlier was only possible in 2D animation. ("The Studio brings over 80 years of animation experience to the medium, and our goal is to carry that wonderful legacy forward in the new digital frontier." http://www.cinemareview.com/production.asp?prodid=3178 ) If we all should delete everything that didn't fit with out personal flavor, there would be a lot of deleting on wikipedia. 193.216.120.87 13:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

1. Whether or not what they're trying to do has been done before is neither here nor there - "unique" is not acceptable in a statement of fact (Wikiepdia is an encyclopaedia).
2. It should be perfectly feasible to talk about what the film might look like, without using judgemental idioms such as "coming to life". Either way, to discuss that is still speculation given we're a full 2-3 years away from release. Again, blogs and message boards are not appropriate references for encyclopaedia articles.
3. "Stiff and artificial" is an opinion. You can't argue against that. As you have just admitted, people would have to see it to appreciate it, so we can't state it as a matter of fact.
4. The New York Times might well refer to someone as "legendary", but it is not an encyclopaedia. It is a newspaper, and is entitled to hold and express an opinion. On the other hand, neutrality is, according to the big guy, "not negotiable".
5. Your statement on the "experiences and knowledge" passage demonstrates a fatal misunderstanding of how Wikipedia works. Wikipedia is not anyone's personal plaything (with maybe one exception). The basis for inclusion of specific information in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. That statement is entirely unverifiable, as it is nothing more than pure speculative opinion. It is someone saying where they believe the field is going.
6. Finally, please remain civil in talk page discussions. Wikipedia users in general will take you less seriously otherwise. 81.104.165.184 13:37, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I will respond to the rest later, for now I have only one thing to say; "This article or section contains information about one or more scheduled or expected future films.

The content may change dramatically as the film's release approaches and more information becomes available." Everybody knows that this is a movie not made yet, and that the information is based on how far the project has come to this point. 193.217.136.106 15:12, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

1. Whether or not what they're trying to do has been done before is neither here nor there - "unique" is not acceptable in a statement of fact (Wikiepdia is an encyclopaedia).

It is an active and online encyclopaedia, meaning that what is unique today may not be it tomorrow. If say, the information has to adjust. Not worse than that. Also, it is fully possible to change the words in a sentence without change its meaning.

1. It should be perfectly feasible to talk about what the film might look like, without using judgemental idioms such as "coming to life". Either way, to discuss that is still speculation given we're a full 2-3 years away from release. Again, blogs and message boards are not appropriate references for encyclopaedia articles.

I am fully aware of that, and my link was never intendent to be permanent. Only as long as the delete debate was going on, which I assume is not going to be forever either. And again, this is not speculation but based on quotes from different sources. And as I already have mentioned, most articles about future films on wikipedia have a note where it says that "the content may change dramatically as the film's release approaches and more information becomes available". And yet you claim that because it is still around 3 years in the future, it is too early for that kind of information.

1. "Stiff and artificial" is an opinion. You can't argue against that. As you have just admitted, people would have to see it to appreciate it, so we can't state it as a matter of fact.

I have admitted what you say? It is not an opinion that the characters in CGI movies like Shrek moves much stiffer than the characters in for instance Nimh or The Little Mermaid. It's a fact.

1. The New York Times might well refer to someone as "legendary", but it is not an encyclopaedia. It is a newspaper, and is entitled to hold and express an opinion. On the other hand, neutrality is, according to the big guy, "not negotiable".

Like also suggested, it is easy to replace the word "legendary" with something more neutral if it feels so wrong.

1. Your statement on the "experiences and knowledge" passage demonstrates a fatal misunderstanding of how Wikipedia works. Wikipedia is not anyone's personal plaything (with maybe one exception). The basis for inclusion of specific information in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. That statement is entirely unverifiable, as it is nothing more than pure speculative opinion. It is someone saying where they believe the field is going.

Based in the technological improvements and spoken ambitions, it is safe to say in what direction Disney wants to go with their animated movies.

1. Finally, please remain civil in talk page discussions. Wikipedia users in general will take you less seriously otherwise.

I have never had any problems in baing taken seriously. I may seem a little aggressive in a few sentences, partly because you are unnecessary picky, but most of all because of your patronizing attitude. Without even the slightest attempt to see if anything is correct, you claims the contributions has "a strong hint of unadulterated speculation" and also claims I have totally misunderstood how Wikipedia works and are using it as my personal plaything.

[edit] Barry Manilow

OK, so apparently, Barry Manilow had a contract with Don Bluth to score three animated features, the third of which was to be "Rapunzel". The links 141.150.242.235 (talk • contribs • info • WHOIS) has provided amply document that, but there's no indication of any relationship between the never-released Bluth "Rapunzel" film and this Disney "Rapunzel" film. I continue to fail to see how a contract with Bluth "must be honored" by Disney! Powers ^T 14:54, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

---

11/20/06 I'm not positive, but I think the Don Bluth Rapunzel and the Disney Rapunzel are one in the same now since Bluth's studio closed. I think Disney likely took over the projects in development from Bluth upon closure (therefore they would have to honor artist contracts already made), but I do not know this for sure. I would suggest contacting Mr. Bluth directly at DonBluth.com to get the definative answer to the status of Rapunzel and Barry Manilow's involvement in composing the score and orginial songs. Good luck. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.98.154.56 (talk • contribs) .

That would be original research. We need positive evidence of something before we add it to the encyclopedia. I have no idea why you think Disney took over Bluth's projects, but I've not seen a single shred of evidence toward that. As such, I'm removing the Manilow credit until such time as we have something more substantial than mere speculation. Powers ^T 14:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

---

11/21/06 The burden of proof is not on me to prove that Barry Manilow is signed to do the music for Rapunzel. There are plenty of sources saying the same online and in various newspaper articles and television shows during the 1990s when Thumbelina and The Pebble and the Penguin were released. The burden of proof is on you to show documentation that there are coincidently and unbelieveably two studios working many years at the same time on a movie about Rapunzel. It seems the right thing to do would be to have Barry Manilow's name, as well as Bruce Sussman listed ([1]) as signed songwriters along with the other names listed at least until it becomes clear closer to the movie release date that they are indeed involved with a completely seperate movie project with the same name, if that is the case. 67.98.154.56 (talk • contribs) .

Um, yes, the burden of proof actually is on you. I've still not seen one single shred of evidence that Manilow's contract with Bluth in any way transferred to Disney. You do realize that the story of Rapunzel is in the public domain, right? Two studios certainly could have been working on versions of the same basic story, and there's absolutely zero evidence of any connection between the two projects. All we need is one single source that shows a connection -- any connection at all. Just one. If you can't find that one source, there's no reason to assume Manilow is involved. Powers ^T 00:47, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Other Rapunzel (Bluth)

11/24/06 I'm just a good samariton looking forward to a movie, not someone trying to start a fight. I think you may be right about there being two movies going on on Rapunzel. I was wondering if you can start a stub for the Bluth movie in the making. Today I came across this related sample of footage from the Bluth version here Animated News 10/22/2004 Archives: "Don Bluth animates Scissor Sisters video" 67.98.154.56 (talk • contribs) .

I thought you said Bluth's studio had closed. The article you linked indicates that the Scissor Sisters video is a version of the Rapunzel tale, not a condensed version of any upcoming movie. To be honest, since the three-picture deal was more than ten years ago, and no Rapunzel has been forthcoming, I think it's safe to assume the film is dead. Not really worth an article until we have some evidence that it's actually in production rather than just in the planning stages. I don't mean to knock your enthusiasm, here; I encourage you to continue to contribute to the encyclopedia, but I think this might be a dead end. Powers ^T 15:23, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

11/25/06 Online I was looking into the status of Don Bluth's studios (Ireland and Arizona) online and found these articles Variety.com Court puts stamp on Bluth sale There is no mention in the Variety article about Rapunzel being a part of the deal which tells me that Bluth himself must still have it (that could be why some of the footage from Rapunzel surfaced in that 2004 music video). Since Rapunzel is conspiculously out of the liquidation deal (as the movie is the third and final film in the Manilow deal) leads me to think that it is currently in limbo and not necessarily dead. I am not able, at the moment, to find anything that says that the movie is canned or for that matter still active either. As for his Arizona studio, that appears to have been shutdown by Fox in 2000 Murdoch: "A Pretty Horrible Year" For 20th Century Fox

Currently, it looks like Bluth and Gary Goldman donated to the Savannah College of Art and Design one million pieces of art including animation cels, drawings and sketches Animators Don Bluth and Gary Goldman donate original artwork It also looks like they are doing animation for games Bluth and Goldman working on I-Ninja Namco announces that animated filmmakers Don Bluth and Gary Goldman will create in-game movies for its upcoming action game In all I think Bluth and Goldman are sitting on Rapunzel and could release it at anytime. It could be anything holding them up from doing so from money, to music (it seems from his official page that they left Manilow hanging on about the project) or anything. Please create a stub for this project. If nothing pans out the stub could always be deleted. 67.98.154.56 (talk • contribs) .

While your exhaustive research is appreciated, I think it only serves to prove that we have no verifiable information about the state of Bluth's Rapunzel project. There's no evidence that any of it was ever animated, that a script was ever written, nor that music was ever commissioned. The stub would basically say "In the early 1990s, Don Bluth was planning to make a film based on the fairy tale of Rapunzel, for which Barry Manilow would have written the songs, but as of 2006 it has yet to come to fruition." Such a stub would not last long on Wikipedia; one of our favorite sayings is "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball." Until some verifiable progress has been made toward creating the film, there's just nothing to be said about it. Powers ^T 16:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Addendum: Note that my proposed stub sentence I quoted above would be perfectly appropriate as a sentence in the Don Bluth article. Why don't you add it there? Powers ^T 16:24, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not a full-length feature film

Define the phrase "not a full-length feature film". This was a description of this film at Talk:The Princess and the Frog. Georgia guy 22:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comedy

Is it a fairy tale comedy a la Shrek, Happily N'Ever After, and Chicken Little? Or is it more like the normal Disney princesses? 24.4.131.142 (talk) 21:06, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please no kitsch!

The last view animated movies were really great, I just hope disney can keep this up. However if I view this screenshot of the main character and look at the so far discussed plot, I have my doubts that this movie will be any good. I hope they are not going to tell a kitschy fairy tale movie. Fairy tales are always great, if they stick to a good plot line! The danger in animating a fairy tale is always that you move away from a sincere movie to a crappy kitsch tale. This animated character remembers me very much on the barbie movies. I've seen what Barbie as Rapunzel and what they made with the movie, it was total kitschy crap, mostly like the rest of the line. However I hope Disney can make it better! The idea is great, I hope disney really makes something out of it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Konohanin (talk • contribs) 20:37, 4 April 2008 (UTC)