Talk:Ranks of the People's Liberation Army

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is part of WikiProject China, a project to improve all China-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other China-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. (add comments)
More information about this article... Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- B-Class-1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points have appropriate inline citations. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- B-Class-2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- B-Class-3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- B-Class-4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- B-Class-5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no Associated task forces (nations and regions): Chinese military history task force

Contents 1 A question 2 Yi Ji Shang Jiang no longer exists 3 The fourth column 4 Brigadier ranks 5 Da Wei (Senior Lt) rank missing? 6 Eh? Theres seems to be a grade two soldier section missing? 7 Field Marshall rank? 8 What is Shang Jiang? 9 Marshal rank 10 Did these ranks exist? 11 Rank correspondences 12 Adoption of current enlisted ranks 13 Chinese Insignia

[edit] A question

Would someone tell me why exactly is it that at the ranks, the chinese part of the name, such as the general's chinese translation, all have the term "air force" in it?

"空军上将" translates into "airforce general" 空军 = air force.

Somebody please change that.--24.85.147.171 00:38, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't speak Chinese, so I really don't know

THIS RANK:

deleted image removed -- Jkelly 03:49, 22 March 2006 (UTC) DOES NOT EXIST! εγκυκλοπαίδεια* 22:01, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Yi Ji Shang Jiang no longer exists

If you can read Chinese, refer to here: http://www.china.cn/chinese/zhuanti/xian/451453.htm. It reveals the rank Yi Ji Shang Jiang no longer exists since 1994 and some other incorrections of this article. I've corrected some of them, but someone reverted it back. What's wrong?

Additionally, unlike the five-star rank of US military, the rank of General First Class was never awarded to a single person before being phased out, therefore it should not be included here.

[edit] The fourth column

What does the fourth column indicate?--Nixer 06:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't get it as well... --DmitryKo 06:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brigadier ranks

I can't seem to understand why Chinese Brigadier is not ranked similarily to Brigadier General. It looks like the four-star Chinese General doesn't even seem to be used now and so it would be a direct equivalent to a largely honorary (at a peace time) General of the Army. Why line-up at the top ranks - is it justified by operational structure of the People's Liberation Army? I mean, does Chinese two-star General really perform the duties typical to a Division-level commander like the US Major General, for example? --DmitryKo 06:35, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

To answer you question, Chinese Brigadiers are commanders of divisions, and brigades. Major general in the PLA does not command divisions, they are more likely to command corps. US major generals command divisions. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.114.197.110 (talk) 22:15, August 23, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Da Wei (Senior Lt) rank missing?

Doesn't this rank exist in the PLA? It seems to be missing.

No, there is no such rank in the PLA. It existed under the 1955 system which was heavily influenced by the Soviet Union. The current system is actually very similar to the US rank structure.

[edit] Eh? Theres seems to be a grade two soldier section missing?

Isn't there one called a second grade soldier? correct me if there isn't Necrowarrio0

There are "Ordinary Private" and PFC, that's it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.114.197.110 (talk) 22:11, August 23, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Field Marshall rank?

Does the PLA have a rank equivalent to Field Marshal?--Yuje 01:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I have the same question. zh:中华人民共和国元帅 talks about the 10 field marshalls appointed at the founding of the people's republic of china. are they not counted as ranks? --Sumple (Talk) 06:48, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

The ten marshals were appointed under a completely different (Soviet Union like) rank system of 1955. That system was abolished in 1966 and never resurrected. The current rank system is not at all similar to the 1955 system. There are no marshals, or colonel generals. Before 1996, PLA reserved a rank of "general first class", which was never filled. It was subsequently abolished. Please refrain from adding the marshal ranks back into this section, the reason is simple, if you add the marshal ranks back, then you have to add back all the old 1955 ranks, such as colonel general, senior captain, warrant officer..., and take out the current ranks which did not exist under the 1955 rank system, such as NCO grades —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.114.197.110 (talk • contribs)

Sounds like a case for having a second article for the 1955-1966 ranks. Caerwine Caer’s whines 05:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is Shang Jiang?

Can anyone explain why the Chinese names of each rank is given a separate article? The pinyin spelling is not even correct; in standard pinyin syllables are not separated: it is shangjiang, not "Shang Jiang", daxiao, not "Da Xiao", and so on.

This is English Wikipedia and the articles should have English names, like: General of the Army (PLA), General (PLA), Lieutenant General (PLA). It is unencyclopedic to list names in Chinese that most people will not recognize and a clear violation of Wikipedia policy to use common names. Could we have an agreement to change this?--Niohe 14:34, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marshal rank

(moved from my talk page)

Regardless of whether or not User:Botisaf was a sockpuppet, his edit on this page appears to be valid. I myself asked about PLA's marshal position, because I was aware that Lin Biao and Peng Dehuai were marshals, and I was suprised that the rank wasn't listed. --Yuje 07:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Given this user's record of installing various "conjectured" ranks and supporting them with doctored images and contradictory links, I'd just assume that this is the case as well. That said, if you believe that this iformation is valid (checking with Uniform Insignia could be a good start), of course you are free to reinstate it under your own account. Still, I don't really think it's appropriate to mix two seemingly different insignia styles in one table and give no slightest explanation, so don't just revert to his version please. --Dmitry _{(talk •contibs )} 10:04, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I checked out the page you gave me, and it appears that those two marshal-equivalent ranks are in fact listed, so it appears legit. [1] I don't have a matching picture and insignia that fits in with the rest, but maybe the table can be restored, without the picture?--Yuje 10:25, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd propose that if only two people ever held thse ranks, they can be considered honorary and should be mentioned with a footnote below, especially given that there is no current insignia for them. If and when pre-1965 insignia and ranks are given a different section within this article, these ranks of course will belong there. --Dmitry _{(talk •contibs )} 10:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm don't know if anyone ever heard the very highest rank, but according to the Chinese Wikipedia, and Category:Marshals of China, a total of 10 people held the marshal-equivalent rank. --Yuje 10:49, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, why not create a section or article stub? (This discussion should probably move to that article's talk page). --Dmitry _{(talk •contibs )} 10:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

To conclusively resolve these confusions,

1. The ranks of Colonel General, Marshal, Grand Marshal only existed under the 1955 rank structure.

2. There were ten Colonel Generals awarded, ten Marshals, and no Grand Marshals awarded.

3. The rank of Grand Marshal was created for and presented to Mao, he rejected it, preferring to rule as a civilian. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.114.197.110 (talk) 22:29, August 23, 2007 (UTC)

You appear to have some confusion concerning Colonel Generals. Under the 1955-1965 system 上将 (Shang Jiang) would have been the rank equivalent to the Soviet Генера́л-полко́вник (Colonel General) while Da Jiang would be the equivalent of Генера́л а́рмии (General of the Army). Colonel General and General are rarely found as ranks in the same army, but when they are, Colonel General is the junior not the senior rank. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:40, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

That's only if you compare to the Russian/Soviet rank system. They have no full general, or brigadier/brigadier general rank, therefore Colonel General ranks below General of Army and above Lt. General. In most countries, Colonel General ranks above full General, which ranks above Lt. General. I see your point in that the 1955 PLA system is base on the Soviet system. But the current system is not, Shangjiang is a full general, that's the official translation from the Chinese government. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.114.197.110 (talk) 21:38, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Did these ranks exist?

[Section removed, it appears it was User:Botisaf doing :)] -- lucasbfr ^talk 11:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rank correspondences

Can anyone provide an official source for correspondences? I'd tend to think that the simpler correspondence I've been using for the flag officer ranks is correct, especially since it nonsense to have the highest officer rank used today in the PLA be equal to only a three star U.S. rank. Caerwine Caer’s whines 00:28, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, you are thinking in US stars only. The PLA full general wearing 3 stars is equivalent to a US 4-star general, that's because like UK and many commonwealth countries, the officer immediately above a colonel and just below a major general is not considered a flag officer, so he does not have a general's star. So PLA major general wears 1 star, lieutenant general wears 2, and full general wears 3. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.114.197.110 (talk) 22:22, August 23, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adoption of current enlisted ranks

I've come across two different dates for the adoption of the current enlisted ranks and insignia. The articles on the Chinese Wikipedia, presumably written or checked by people likeliest to have first hand knowledge, give the date as 1998. However, The International Encyclopedia of Uniform and Rank Insignia around the World gives 2000 as the date. I'm inclined to think that the collectors might not have become aware of the change until 2000, so I used the 1998 date in the article, but I'd like conformation. Especially since an alternate explanation, that the change was approved in 1998 but implementation was delayed until 2000 is equally plausible. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:08, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Last I checked wiki was about facts not truths. You can conform from a somewhat reliable source (I never heard of the book before, but it sounds like a reliable niche publications). I never read any rules about going with what you believe to be true, infact I recall rules against that, going with the 2000 until you get confirmation on 1998. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 04:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese Insignia

Where have the images of the Chinese insignia's gone? I think I remember them being there, and all there is now are U.S army ranks! --Climax-Void ^{Chat or My Contributions}

They were deleted because of copyright problems. The actual images came from another website, so until someone takes the time to create images without copyright problems, they will probably remain gone. Caerwine Caer’s whines 19:19, 4 November 2007 (UTC)