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[edit] Jews for Jesus Mediation

One of the 13 articles of faith: "I Believe With Complete Faith In The Coming Of The Messiah...." (from the Thirteen Principles of Faith)

The full 13 pillars:

  1. I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, blessed be His Name, is the Creator and Guide of everything that has been created; He alone has made, does make, and will make all things.
  2. I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, blessed be His Name, is One, and that there is no unity in any manner like His, and that He alone is our God, who was, and is, and will be.
  3. I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, blessed be His Name, is not a body, and that He is free from all the properties of matter, and that there can be no (physical) comparison to Him whatsoever.
  4. I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, blessed be His Name, is the first and the last.
  5. I believe with perfect faith that to the Creator, blessed be His Name, and to Him alone, it is right to pray, and that it is not right to pray to any being besides Him.
  6. I believe with perfect faith that all the words of the prophets are true.
  7. I believe with perfect faith that the prophecy of Moses, our teacher, peace be upon him, was true, and that he was the chief of the prophets, both of those who preceded him and of those who followed him.
  8. I believe with perfect faith that the entire Torah that is now in our possession is the same that was given to Moses, our teacher, peace be upon him.
  9. I believe with perfect faith that this Torah will not be exchanged, and that there will never be any other Torah from the Creator, blessed be His name.
  10. I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, blessed be His name, knows all the deeds of human beings, and all their thoughts, as it says: "Who fashioned the hearts of them all, Who comprehends all their actions." (Psalms 33:15)
  11. I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, blessed be His Name, rewards those that keep His commandments and punishes those that transgress them.
  12. I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah; and even though he may tarry, nonetheless I wait every day for his coming.
  13. I believe with perfect faith that there will be a revival of the dead at the time when it shall please the Creator, blessed be His name, and His mention shall be exalted for ever and ever.

[edit] Proposed New Section

One of the main controversies surrounding Jews for Jesus is the charge from many Jewish groups that it uses vague and misleading langauge in its attempt to convert Jews to Christianity. These include unclear claims to being Jewish, as well as statements that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Jewish prophecy of Messiah.[citation needed] Critics claim that JfJ uses the ambiguity in the defition of "Jew" and "Jewish" to confuse prospective converts into incorrectly believeing there is a possibility of one being a follower of both Judaism and Christianity simultaneously, when in fact, Jesus as deity, son of God, or Christ, is nearly universally held to be incompatible with Judaism. [1][2] Despite this, Jews for Jesus argues that their views of the Messiah and Trinity are compatible with the view of God presented in Jewish scriptures [3] contending that the Christian doctrine of the Trinity is not entirely alien to Judaism: "While it is true that the Old Testament portion of Scripture does not present as clear a picture of the three-in-one/one-as-three Godhead, there are indications of the plurality of the Godhead in the Hebrew Scriptures." [4] these interpretations are rejected by Judaism.[5] [6] [7] Still, the group concedes that Christianity and modern Judaism are not compatible, responding to criticism generally by saying that Jewishness is a birthright, and that their allusions to "Jewishness" refer to ethnic descriptions and not religious ones. [citation needed]

[edit] Original Proposal (Please do not edit this version)

One of the main controversies surrounding Jews for Jesus is it's use of vague and misleading langauge and tactics in it's attempt to convert Jews to Christianity. These include statements that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Jewish prophecy of Messiah.[citation needed] To this end, critics claim that JfJ uses the ambiguity in the defition of "Jew" and "Jewish" to confuse their prospective converts into believeing there is a possibility of one being a follower of both Judaism and Christianity simultaneously.[citation needed] However, belief in Jesus as deity, son of God, or Christ, is usually held as incompatible with Judaism. [1][2] Although, Jews for Jesus believes their views of the Messiah are entirely compatible with the view of God presented in Jewish scriptures,[3] and that the doctrine of the Trinity, fundamental to the Christian faith, is not entirely alien to Judaism, [4] these interpretations by Jews for Jesus are rejected by Judaism.[5] [6] [7] Jews for Jesus respond to these allegation by stating that their allusions to "Jewishness" refer to ethnic descriptions and not religious ones. [citation needed]

[edit] New Proposal

One of the criticism of Jews for Jesus surround the tactics they employ in their missionary and outreach programs. Critics claim the organization uses vague and misleading langauge along with deceptive tactics in it's attempt to convert Jews to Christianity. [1] These tactics include statements that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Jewish prophecy of Messiah and attempts by Jews for Jesus to interpret core principles of Judaism in an effort to bring these Jewish principles into accord with Christian doctrines.[2] To this end, critics claim that JfJ uses the ambiguity in the defition of "Jew" and "Jewish" to confuse their prospective converts into believeing there is a possibility of one being a follower of both Judaism and Christianity simultaneously.[3] However, belief in Jesus as deity, son of God, or Christ, is usually held as incompatible with Judaism. [4]

Although, Jews for Jesus believes their views of the Messiah are entirely compatible with the view of God presented in Jewish scriptures,[5] and that the doctrine of the Trinity, fundamental to the Christian faith, is not entirely alien to Judaism, [6] these interpretations by Jews for Jesus are rejected by Judaism.[7] [8] [9] [10] Jews for Jesus respond to these allegation by stating that their allusions to "Jewishness" refer to ethnic descriptions and not religious ones. [11]

  1. ^ [http://www.adl.org/special_reports/jews4jesus/jfj_complete.pdf Jews for Jesus Targeting Jews for Conversion with Subterfuge and Deception]
  2. ^ Judaism Teaches... or Does It.
  3. ^ Jews for Judaism, The Challenge of Missionaries and Cults
  4. ^ A belief in the divinity of Jesus is incompatible with Judaism:
    • "The point is this: that the whole Christology of the Church - the whole complex of doctrines about the Son of God who died on the Cross to save humanity from sin and death - is incompatible with Judaism, and indeed in discontinuity with the Hebraism that preceded it." Rayner, John D. A Jewish Understanding of the World, Berghahn Books, 1998, p. 187. ISBN 1-57181-974-6
    • "It has always been recognized, for instance, after the rise of Christianity and Islam, that these two religions are incompatible with Judaism and that no Jew can consistently embrace them while remaining an adherent of Judaism." Neusner, Jacob & Avery-Peck, Alan Jeffery. The Blackwell Reader in Judaism, Blackwell Publishing, 2001, p. 8. ISBN 0-631-20738-4
    • "Aside from its belief in Jesus as the Messiah, Christianity has altered many of the most fundamental concepts of Judaism." Kaplan, Aryeh. The Aryeh Kaplan Anthology: Volume 1, Illuminating Expositions on Jewish Thought and Practice, Mesorah Publication, 1991, p. 264. ISBN 0-89906-866-9
    • "...the doctrine of Christ was and will remain alien to Jewish religious thought." Wylen, Stephen M. Settings of Silver: An Introduction to Judaism, Paulist Press, 2000, p. 75. ISBN 0-8091-3960-X
    • "For a Jew, however, any form of shituf is tantamount to idolatry in the fullest sense of the word. There is then no way that a Jew can ever accept Jesus as a deity, mediator or savior (messiah), or even as a prophet, without betraying Judaism. To call oneself, therefore, a 'Hebrew-Christian,' a 'Jew for Jesus,' or in the latest version a 'messianic Jew,' is an oxymoron. Just as one cannot be a 'Christian Buddhist,' or a 'Christian for Krishna,' one cannot be a 'Jew for Jesus.'" Schochet, Rabbi J. Immanuel. "Judaism has no place for those who betray their roots", Canadian Jewish News, July 29, 1999.
    • This July, Hebrew-Christian groups such as Jews for Jesus will work to convert Jews to another religion. The Jewish Response to Missionaries (NY Board of Rabbis)
    • Judaism and Jesus Don't Mix (foundationstone.com)
    • Jews believe that "Jews for Jesus," "Messianic Jews," and "Hebrew Christians" are no longer Jews, even if they were once Jews (whatjewsbelieve.org)
    • "If you believe Jesus is the messiah, died for anyone else's sins, is God's chosen son, or any other dogma of Christian belief, you are not Jewish. You are Christian. Period." (Jews for Jesus: Who's Who & What's What by Rabbi Susan Grossman (beliefnet - virtualtalmud) August 28, 2006)
    • "For two thousand years, Jews rejected the claim that Jesus fulfilled the messianic prophecies of the Hebrew Bible, as well as the dogmatic claims about him made by the church fathers - that he was born of a virgin, the son of God, part of a divine Trinity, and was resurrected after his death. ... For two thousand years, a central wish of Christianity was to be the object of desire by Jews, whose conversion would demonstrate their acceptance that Jesus has fulfilled their own biblical prophecies." (Jewish Views of Jesus by Susannah Heschel, in Jesus In The World's Faiths: Leading Thinkers From Five Faiths Reflect On His Meaning by Gregory A. Barker, editor. (Orbis Books, 2005) ISBN 1-57075-573-6. p.149)
    • "... there are limits to pluralism, beyond which a group is schismatic to the point where it is no longer considered Jewish. For example, everyone considers Messianic Judaism and belief in Buddah as outside of the Jewish sphere." (Why did the majority of the Jewish world reject Jesus as the Messiah, and why did the first Christians accept Jesus as the Messiah? by Rabbi Shraga Simmons)
    • "No Jew accepts Jesus as the Messiah. When someone makes that faith commitment, they become Christian. It is not possible for someone to be both Christian and Jewish." (Why don't Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah? by Rabbi Barry Dov Lerner)
    • In his book A History of the Jews, Paul Johnson describes the schism between Jews and Christians caused by a divergence from this principle:

    "To the question, Was Jesus God or man?, the Christians therefore answered: both. After 70 AD, their answer was unanimous and increasingly emphatic. This made a complete breach with Judaism inevitable." (Johnson, Paul (1987). A History of the Jews. HarperCollins, p.144. ISBN 0-06-091533-1.)

  5. ^ http://www.jewsforjesus.org/answers/theology/believeinthreegods
  6. ^ "While it is true that the Old Testament portion of Scripture does not present as clear a picture of the three-in-one/one-as-three Godhead, there are indications of the plurality of the Godhead in the Hebrew Scriptures." The Trinity in the Old Testament by Catherine Damato. (Jews for Jesus) June 1, 1987
  7. ^ Why did the majority of the Jewish world reject Jesus as the Messiah, and why did the first Christians accept Jesus as the Messiah? by Rabbi Shraga Simmons (about.com)
  8. ^ Michoel Drazin (1990). Their Hollow Inheritance. A Comprehensive Refutation of Christian Missionaries. Gefen Publishing House, Ltd.. ISBN 965-229-070-X. 
  9. ^ Troki, Isaac. "Faith Strengthened".America's Religions. An Educator's Guide to Beliefs and Practices contains "[a] note about Jews for Jesus, Messianic Jews, Hebrew Christians, and similar groups: Jews in these groups who have converted to Christianity but continue to observe various Jewish practices are no longer considered part of the Jewish community in the usual sense."
  10. ^ Benjamin Hubbard; John Hatfield, James Santucci (1997). America's Religions. An Educator's Guide to Beliefs and Practices. Teacher Ideas Press, a Division of Libraries Unlimited, p.100. ISBN 1-56308-469-4. 
  11. ^ Jews for Jesus, How can one be a Jew and Christian at the same time.

[edit] Background (Proposal)

Further information: Judaism and Christianity and Messianic Judaism

Throughout history there have been several groups who have come to be called Jewish-Christian. The first such group came among the early followers of Jesus (who were known as Notzrim or Nazarenes). The original "Nazarenes" were accepted as a sect of Judaism up to the Second Revolt. [1] However the eventual abandonment of Jewish law by most of Jesus' disciples, and their adoption of pagan customs and celebrations, eventually led to a schism between Jews and Christians which was cemented by the First Council of Nicea in 325 CE.

The Messianic Judaism of today grew out of the Hebrew-Christian movement of the 1800's. Jewish-Christian congregations began to emerge in England; the first of these was Beni Abraham, in London, which was founded by forty-one Jewish-Christians. This led to a more general awareness of a type of Christianity with a Jewish background.[2] It used to be that a Jew that accepted Jesus Christ as Messiah would have to leave the synagogue and join a gentile (a non-jewish) church. The acceptance of Jesus was thought to be a betrayal of the faith. In recent times, however, roughly 350 Messianic congregations have been formed worldwide[3] Although these groups continue to retain their Jewish traditions and practices, virtually all Jewish denominations, Jewish groups, national Jewish organizations, and many others reject this classification and regard these groups as Christian. [4]. Although, Jews for Jesus considers itself to be among these Messianic groups [5], its Protestant Christian theology and evangelical emphasis separates it from other Messianic groups. [6] [7]

[edit] Weird Circumstance

06:33, 09 October 2006 (diff) Mrmiscellanious completely stops editing after commenting on FNC talk page

01:41, 10 October 2006 (diff)Cbuhl79 starts editing after 3 months of silence, just hours after Mrmiscellanious's last edit; first comment is on FNC talk page

21:21, 28 October 2006 (diff) Cbuhl79 stops editing after ArbCom Request is filed on his behavior

02:54, 29 October 2006 (diff) Mrmiscellanious begins editing within hours of Cbuhl's last edit; is now arguing same points as Cbuhl