Talk:Ralph Waldo Emerson

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[edit] comments

Vandalism deleted, reversion to previous version. Dec. 19, 2006

Early in 1842, Emerson lost his first son, Waldo, to scarlet fever. Emerson wrote about his grief in two major works: the poem "Threnody", and the essay "Experience." In the same year, William James was born, and Emerson agreed to be his godfather. Is this a type? I thought individuals other than parents were asked to be godfathers. (J. Kubicki Jr. 18:12, 12 January 2007 (UTC))

The phrase "he was bald" in the sentence "His young wife, Ellen Louisa Tucker, he was bald, died in April 1831." seems incredibly awkward and nonessential. Is there a reason for this or is it just an error?

--65.68.190.251 12:13, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


Obvious vandalism. Deleted.Lestrade 12:31, 4 October 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

I can't seem to find another source to back up this wiki's claim that Emerson's dad complained about his reading at three years old. Anyone?

Im not sure it's entirely true... A three year old who's supposed to read well? - Abhorsen123 15:40, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

The only citations on the web that support this statement are exact quotes of the Wikipedia page, which suggests that it is either hearsay, or from an uncommon print source. 209.214.230.142 17:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

AlanH 14:59, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It seems to say that he was ten at the time his father says that he can't read but the date is doesn't match (Makeing him three) a discrepancy that even if untrue doesn't make sense.63.224.245.74 23:19, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Changed "Emerson's most important prose works are:" to "Emerson's prose works include:". I think people might argue over which of his works are most important, so I chose something less POV. Also created a parallel "Emerson's poetry includes:" section for balance, with collections as well as individual poems.

Whysperseed 06:23, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)

Rearranged and named the external links.

Whysperseed 05:51, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)

previous external link layout:


I don't think Emerson ever "drifted" between philosophical positions. I have made it "moved away from" because this fits the rest of the sentence, although I would like to re-write more radically.

Perhaps Emerson's having started with Unitarianism and moved on from there should be mentioned at this early point in the article. Fixlein (talk) 16:42, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

Wikiquote has a collection of quotations related to:
Wikisource
Wikisource has original works written by or about:
"If the red slayer think he slays,
Or if the slain think he is slain,
They know not well the subtle ways
I keep, and pass, and turn again....
Brahma (1856)

... Far or forgot to me is near, Shadow and sunlight are the same, Vanished gods to me appear, and one to me are shame and fame. They reckon ill, who leave me out; When me they fly, I am the wings; I am the doubter and the doubt, and I the hymn the Brahmin sings. THe strong gods pine for my abode, and pine in vain the sacred seven, but though, meek lover of the good, find me, and turn thy back on heaven.

Rest of Brahma (- Abhorsen123 15:38, 14 January 2006 (UTC))


I love man,not men

Hitch your wagon to the stars. Emerson

he who has all the toys does not always win

wealth does not always bring happiness and goodness, but just the reverse

not all of life's experiences are to be found in books

this is the age of the first person singular

I find it strange that "his young *wife* and one true love" is named Miss not (Mrs.) Elena Louisa Tucker. Any ideas?

[edit] Emerson in favor of expelling blacks from America?

I have heard quite a few people mention that Emerson, while in favor of abolition of slavery, wished that after being set free all blacks would be sent back to Africa. Now while this will not change much my opinion of him if it happens to be true I still wish to know if this is simply slander or not (those comments that I have heard were uttered by Southerners who still hate Yankees). --The Individual 20:20, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I believe that this was opinion not uncommon. But rather than "expelling", the idea would be to resettle blacks in their homeland. That's actually how the country of Liberia was founded:
Liberia, which means "Land of the Free", was founded by freed slaves from the United States under the supervision of the American Colonization Society in 1820. These Americo-Liberians established a settlement in Christopolis, soon renamed Monrovia, after U.S. president James Monroe, president of the Society, on 6 February, 1820. This group of 86 immigrants formed the nucleus of the settler population of what became known as the "Republic of Liberia". Lt. Robert F. Stockton of the U.S. Navy helped negotiate a treaty with the natives that led to the founding of new country.
The idea of resettling free slaves in Africa was nurtured by the American Colonization Society (ACS), an organization that governed the Commonwealth of Liberia until independence. Between 1817 and 1867, 13,000 freed slaves arrived with the help of the Society, leading to the formation of more settlements and culminating on 26 July 1847 in a declaration of independence of the Republic of Liberia. The style of government and constitution was said to be fashioned on that of the United States. The new Republic of Liberia adopted other American styles of life, including southern plantation-style houses with deep verandahs, and established thriving trade links with other West Africans. The Americo-Liberians distinguished themselves from the local people, characterized as 'natives,' by the universal appelation of "Mr."
--from History of Liberia --goethean ॐ 15:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Some abolitionists argued that slaves should return to Africa as free men, but Emerson never expressed that view.
His 1844 address, "Emancipation in the British West Indies," calls for a similar act of emacipation in the USA, with full citizenship: "...no race can be perfect whilst another race is degraded." See http://www.walden.org/Institute/thoreau/about2/E/Emerson_Ralph_Waldo/Writings/1844_Address/Emancipation.htm.
Considering Emerson's high intelligence, it is surprising that he would support such a mass deportation. I'm sure that if he could tour today's Detroit, Chicago, or Newark, he would surely change his mind.Lestrade 18:05, 26 June 2006 (UTC)Lestrade


The wiki article leaves out Emersons birthdate. It was 1803. And it wrongly states that he was 8 in 1810, because he was actually seven. He would have to have been born in 1802 to be 8 then. - Abhorsen123 15:44, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Emerson's Ties to the East and his Nondual Philosophy

I added a portion about Emerson's ties to eastern Vedas and it has been removed. I put it back with more referernces, hoping this would solve the problem. My information is accurate. One source I have is: In 1845, Emerson's Journal records that he was reading the Bhagavad Gita and Colebrooke's Essays on the Vedas. (Sachin N. Pradhan, India in the United States: Contribution of India and Indians in the United States of America , (Bethesda, MD: SP Press International, Inc., 1996), p. 12. If someone has a problem with the way I wrote this, please fix it, but I think it is fair to include this fact. Why exclude it? I hope there is a way everyone can be happy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cott12 (talk • contribs) .

The problem is that your labelling of Emerson is an interpretation. Wikipedia doesn't publish original interpretations of literary figures, although it can report on the interpretation of literary figures by scholars. Your text needs to be in the form of "According to x in y, Emerson was a nondualist..." — goethean ॐ 19:01, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

That said, User:Hydriotaphia, what's wrong with the quotation from "The Oversoul"? — goethean ॐ 19:13, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry--I shouldn't have erased that. I don't want to get into an edit war with anybody. I'll replace the quote. Will that please everybody? Hydriotaphia 19:44, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Again, I'm sorry to have erased the quote, and it's now back in. I've replaced "finest" with "clearest," since "finest" is a necessarily controversial value judgment. I hope we'll be able to avoid mediation now. Hydriotaphia 19:48, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

This is getting kind of absurd. It is a FACT that Emerson read and was influenced by the Vedas. I gave references where this can be looked up in historical scholarship. It is not an "interpretation" that Emerson's saying that parts and particles are fused in the "Over Soul" (his invention) was a reference to the Vedantic Paramatma. I can also give references to this as well. It seems you have an agenda to omit this fact, and I can't see why. Many people are interested in this cultural cross-over. None of this is interepretation of fact. This site leaves Emerson appearing intractably diaphanous, when in fact he can be understood in the context of his influences in his time. To conceal this information I think is extremely poor scholarship. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cott12 (talk • contribs) .

Also I do not pretend to "interpret" the quote by Emerson. The allusion to monism is glaring. Anyone is free to interpret it as they wish. Here is a smaller exerpt from what I had on: "Meantime within man is the soul of the whole; the wise silence; the universal beauty, to which every part and particle is equally related, the eternal ONE. (his own capitalization)" Emerson is one of the most prominent writers influenced by the Bhavadvagita. My source was again: In 1845, Emerson's Journal records that he was reading the Bhagavad Gita and Henry Thomas Colebrooke's Essays on the Vedas (Sachin N. Pradhan, India in the United States: Contribution of India and Indians in the United States of America, (Bethesda, MD: SP Press International, Inc., 1996), p 12. There is your scholarship. What is missing? It is not my POV that Emerson was drastically eastern influenced. To make a mere side-note of it is simply scholastic dishonesty -- not objective scholarship. 19:55, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by "mak[ing] a mere side-note of it." Can you clarify? Respectfully, Hydriotaphia 19:59, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it's fine as it is.

I have a question as to this quote: "A common joke heard from his audiences was that they had no idea what he was saying, but that it was beautiful." What is the reference source for this statement? Certainly the wikipedian didn't interview Emerson's audience. Was wanting to know the source. If there is no source, then it is speculative. I have never heard this or read it. Emerson, it seems to me, spoke in the 'romantic era' tone of of time, in step with the other poets/ essayists of his time. This kind of flowery, nearly religious, rhetoric can even be found in the speeches and letters of Abraham Lincoln. I have never heard that Emerson stuck out as especially obstruse in his time. There is no understanding in this essay of the backdrop of his day and that German Idealism had peaked at that time. This was common oratory speech for his era. Who wrote the bulk of this essay anyway? We need a scholar badly. As is it is merely his life, with no understanding of the context other than naming names, dates, places, and siting publications. 21:45, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

The monism evident in Emerson's later writings and works, which (though herein contended) is easily attributed to his Eastern influences, indeed puts the truth to Thoreau's private contention that he had drifted from original principles. In contrast to his assertion of the oneness of the soul in "Over Soul", note his original assertion in "Nature": "Therefore is Space, and therefore Time, that man may know that things are not huddled and lumped, but sundered and individual. ... A wise man shows his wisdom in separation, in gradation, and his scale of creatures and of merits is as wide as nature. The foolish have no range in their scale, but suppose that every man is as every other man." 209.214.230.142 23:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

The Eastern influences are important, together with Plotinus, etc. The current text:

Emerson was strongly influenced by his early reading of the French essayist Montaigne. From those compositions he took the conversational, subjective style and the loss of belief in a personal God. He never read Kant's works, but, instead, relied on Coleridge's interpretation of the German Transcendental Idealist. This led to Emerson's non-traditional ideas of soul and God.

is certainly a woefully inadequate statement of where Emerson's monist, "Oversoul," and other ideas took their inspiration from... Wareh 00:48, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] link

Hi, I would like to add an external link to the World of Biography entry

  • probably the most famous portal of biography to this article. Does anybody have any objections?

please do not add this to the article, and please read the incident report before giving the go-ahead. This is spam and not link-worthy under WP:EL; the articles contain many distortions, lack citations, and contain nothing that wouldn't fit directly in the wiki article. a link to worldofbiography has been placed on over 70 talk pages by User:Jameswatt. thanks. --He:ah? 20:57, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I looked at this site and it is badly written, has unclosed quotations (totally confusing), diffuse interpretations, and lacks citations.chris 21:38, 15 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Grammar

The sentence-paragraph "Just how many children he had, is not easy to find, but he had at least one son and at least one daughter; with her, when he was already old, he traveled to Europe" is horribly formed, incoherent, and in need of revision.

[edit] Lydia Jackson

I was trying to view a page for the 1978 Miss Black America winner Lydia Jackson, but Emerson's wife also shares that name, so the link for Lydia Jackson redirects to here. Could we possibly have a disambiguation page?

Zendik 14:50, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greatest?

The final words of the article claim that the collection of Emerson's essays is considered to be one of the 100 greatest books of all time. What is the authority behind this judgment?Lestrade 16:17, 1 December 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

vandalised, plz check

As a book collector, to my knowledge this is true in 2 of such collections of the "100 Greatest Books of All Time Collections" done by 2 publishing companies, both the Franklin Library and the Easton Press. Hope this helps.

[edit] inconsistent age references

it says 1805 he was 10 years old but the birth date is 1803. it also says 1811 he was 18 but once again based on his birthday is said to be 1803. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.74.100.73 (talk) 23:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Grammar suggestions/Section regarding his death

This is my first posting.
The following sentences have parts that are unclear or confusing:
"Emerson toured Europe in Dreni 1832 and later wrote of his travels in English Traits (1856)."
"Carlyle and Emerson maintained contact a correspondence with Carlyle until the latter's death in 1881."

Dreni - not sure what that is. Could not find a reference on Wiki or Google. it appears to be unnecessary in the sentence.

Carlyle and Emerson... - Carlyle's name is mentioned twice - I am suggessting using "Carlyle and Emerson corresponded until the latter's death in 1881."

Also, a section regarding details regarding his death would be appropriate. What illness, where he died, who was present, etc...
Thanks.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Handyman69 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 21 April 2007 (UTC).


[edit] Could I ask a question?

I don't know if this is the appropriate place to ask a question, but I am curious: is there any relation between Dewey and the Emerson's Metaphysical Club? I ask it because in my schoolbook of philosophy there is a vague allusion about the influence of the Club in Dewey's thought. But my book is not apparent. Sorry if my English isn't perfect. Thank for your consideration, --79.8.122.170 00:25, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Named after Emerson

Ralph Waldo Ellison, the author of Invisible Man was apparently named after Emerson. This may be a good thing to add to the named after section24.40.140.38 23:17, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Emerson's father, who called his son "a rather dull, gay, scholar",

is this true? i think it may be more vandalizm though. Probably some school kids with some report on Emerson... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.115.205.118 (talk) 16:19, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is this correct?

Emerson's father, who called his son "a rather dull, gay, scholar",

is that statement correct? seems like some vandalizm to me, if anyone could confirm this that would be nice. If its vandalizm its probably some 13 year old kid doing a project on emerson or something —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.115.205.118 (talk) 16:25, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

don't see how that's vandalism exactly. and emerson's father could easily not have meant "gay" to mean homosexual.. 66.32.189.249 (talk) 20:20, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Two Questions

I am new to editing of Wiki but I am not new to Emerson. I am a grad student at Boston College and one of my areas of specialization is American philosophy. More specifically I focus on the complex and two way relationship between 19th century continental philosophy and American philosophy.

I am suggesting two changes one very minor.

The first (minor) is that there is evidence in both Emerson's journals and in the text: Harding, Walter, Emerson's Library, Univ. Press of Virginia, Charlottesville, 1967, that the following passage from the Emerson wiki:

He never read Kant's works, but, instead, relied on Coleridge's interpretation of the German

is not entirely factual. He did indeed get much of his influence from Coleridge (and others) but he also read Kant himself in German and in translation. According to the journal article: Wellek, Rene. "Emerson and German Philosophy." New England Quarterly 16.1 (1943): 41-62. Emerson owned his own copy of the Critique of Pure Reason.

The second change I am suggesting is more of an addition than a change in the current page. I would like to add--after hearing any suggestions or critique of the idea--a substantive section on the philosophy of Emerson. I am aware that there is another section devoted to transcendentalism but I believe this does not begin to encompass the diversity much less the progression of Emerson's philosophy. From his early essays such as Nature to his later works such The Conduct of Life-- which is clearly proto-pragmatism Emerson's philosophy changes quite dramatically. I am not putting forth only my own ideas. In fact most of what I would add would be a synthesis of other author's ideas (which I will duly note when used) such as Stanley Cavell, Louis Menand, Robert Richardson, Stanley Vogel, David Van Leer, and several others.

I am proposing four sub-sections.

  1. Overview
  2. Influences on his philosophy: Cousin, Coleridge, Kant, Fichte, Schelling, etc.
  3. progression over time of his philosophy
  4. His legacy: Nietzsche, James, Holmes, etc.

I would welcome any comment or critique prior to posting the edit

--Mbradyx (talk) 05:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for dropping a line. This page could definitely use some help. If you've got references, let's start building this up. I hope you'll stick around and make some of these changes yourself, and definitely use in-line citations (that's what this article strongly needs the most). I'm leaving you a "welcome" message on your talk page that should give you some useful links on how to get started. I can help too - just drop me a line on my talk page! --Midnightdreary (talk) 14:27, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sexuality?

Needs to be looked into. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Craigboy (talk • contribs) 02:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)