Talk:Ralph Klein
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With respect, I'm disappointed by this page. It focuses on recent (and random) Klein trivia rather than giving a coherent overview of his life and accomplishments. The missing information on his early life is especially disappointing. Is anyone planning on updating this page, or should I take it upon myself? --Random Anonymous Reader
This article could definitely do with some expansion of Klein's early policies, of his most controversial policies in Alberta (health care?) and his particular approach to representing Alberta within the context of Canadian federalism. An update is needed to include the announcement of his retirement date and the upcoming leadership review.
Perhaps some of that generous Alberta arts funding could go to a Ralph-Klein-o-pedia where the Ralph Klein point of view can be fully expanded on, to see just where it leads us. Someone from Alberta out there want to try it?
There seem to be a lot of interesting parallel with William Aberhart:
- Both became famous as radio hosts
- Both have a complete lock on the political system
- Both have a near cult of personality
- Both like to challenge the federal government (I could probably say that about every Alberta Premier tho')
...can anyone with more knowledge of Alberta political history think of any more? -- stewacide
Few things to suggest for future revisers of this page (as I'm too lazy to look this stuff up right now, but may at some point in the future):
- Based on this article it's unclear when Klein went through his alcohol treatment and how public it was. This seems important.
- Whether or not anyone agrees with Klein's environmental views (I happen not to), I think it's unfair to classify them as "primitive".
-- Matty j 06:50, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
Whoa, serious POV issues. Is there any point to working out compromise text, or is this just going to lead to a revert war?
AlexKepler
- What, specifically, concerns you about the article's POV? As a general Klein supporter, I didn't think it was bad either way, but I have my natural biases. Lord Bob 06:31, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)
It may be worth adding some notes on the plagiarism scandal that hit Klein a while back. While it was a non-entity for many Albertans, it lowered his standing somewhat amongst people who treat education seriously, particularly as he was given a slap on the wrist (and the incident generally covered up) instead of expelled from school, as is sometimes the penalty in similar cases. Obviously, it is unlikely I could be neutral on this. --Yamla 23:41, 2004 Nov 26 (UTC)
- I would be in favour of seeing that in, sure. It was a fairly-ish big deal at the time, as I recall. I'd take a stab at it, but I don't know many of the details (I haven't been living in Alberta for a few months now). Lord Bob 10:54, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)
Landroo 08:38, 9 June 2006 (UTC) I found one statement a little off-centre. The reference about him "verbally abusing" some homeless people was a bit strong, I think. Although Klein apologized, and many of his anti-fans made a good deal of hay out of the incident, I'm not sure "verbal abuse" isn't too strong a term for suggesting they get a job, or something to that effect.
[edit] Religion?
Is Mr. Klein Religious. 207.6.241.252
- Does it matter? GoodDay 16:52, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I think the question be, what is his religion. Instead of is he religious. Most politicians have their religious denominations in their infoboxes. --Sicamous 21:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
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- I believe it is common knowledge that Mr. Klein worships at the Shrine of the Seven Sisters. Garth of the Forest 01:43, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] quoting legislature debates misleading?
Okay we have a statement that says Ralph Klein apologized for calling Kevin Taft a liar, this is a true statement but if you read the actual exchange it is Kevin Taft that is humiliated by the appology and this is not made clear in the statement in the Wikipedia article. I've removed this sentence since stuff like this happens all the time in the legislature and can be misleading as to what actually occurred. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ronwi (talk • contribs)
Taft was hardly intimidated by the exchange. I was there that day, and it was simply his attempt to avoid making a genuine apology. A point of order was raised and the Speaker pressed the issue, forcing Klein to apologize without adding an extra stab at Taft to the end. The misleading nature of the quote is that no mention is made of the fact that this is an extremely common occurrance in the Legislature, from both sides of the house. Here is an excerpt from Hansard for the day:
Mr. Klein: Wrong, wrong, wrong. You know, the Leader of the Official Opposition stands up and fibs not only to this Assembly but to the world.
The Speaker: Please. We’ve had discussions on the usage of certain words. I’m going to ask the Premier of the province of Alberta to withdraw the word "fib." [His tone and choice of words clearly shows he finds the Premier's language immature.]
Mr. Klein: Sorry, Mr. Speaker. I won’t use the word "fib." I’ll say that he doesn’t tell the whole truth all the time – most of the time.
The Speaker: We have a point of order on that point. I think it’s really important that we use proper decorum. Please proceed.
Mr. Klein: Mr. Speaker, my point is taken and made, but I do apologize for calling the hon. member a liar. Mr. Speaker, if this member or any person in this Assembly or any Albertan is sick or injured, they will be treated. They will be treated under the public system, and they will be treated immediately according to the triage procedures that are available in our health regions.
The full Hansard is available from the Legislative Assembly of Alberta's website. -- IntrigueBlue 06:04, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Legacy
Ok, being an albertan, i think there has to be a section about Ralph's legacy. i mean c'mon, he's the kind of rare politician that is virtually loved by the people, say what you will about his kyoto policies, but the man is a once in a life time legend, regardless of politics.
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- Speak for yourself, this albertan CANNOT WAIT until he finally leaves office. He's nearly made a mockery out of our lovely province! 24.65.10.222 02:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
- That can be written up after he leaves office. --TheTruthiness 08:04, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
He is loved by the people? What part of Alberta are you in?
- Most people in Alberta evidently like Klein, since he's been in office for more than a decade. Where are you from? Central Edmonton?
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- Did you mean most people in Calgary, and/or rural (southern) Alberta who actually vote? Anyone taking on the challenge of writing up a "Legacy" section for Ralph has their work cut out for them. He was a very colourful, and very controversial character. Your shot at "central Edmonton" is perhaps unwarranted - while Klein's government peaked in the only polls that matter at somewhere just over 60%, most of that support came from rural Alberta and Calgary based on less than 40 percent of the popular vote due to our flawed electoral process. Do I need to use a blunt instrument to demonstrate how flawed our system is? How can just over 60% of the vote translate into 90% of the seats in a true democracy? Is it surprising, then, that those people who were most likely to truly know what was going on (from the inside - I refer to provincial government employees) were most heavily concentrated in "central Edmonton" and, co-incidentally, least likely to vote for Ralph & Co.? Coincidence? Hmmmm....
The other thing to consider - Ralph's political longevity and apparent (surface?) popularity was due, in my opinion, to the "perfect storm" created by: 1) people dissatisfied with the federal Liberal policies such as the NEP confusing this sentiment with the provincial Liberal Party; 2) Canada's (and, by association, Alberta's) "first-past-the-post" system tends to "over-reward" majority governments and "under-represent" dissenting viewpoints; 3) Albertans, have, historically, since 1935, tended to vote like lemmings, present company excepted; 4a) Ralph was very in tune with "the common man" and very astute at playing to that commonality to his political advantage; 4b) He knew exactly when to apologize to make it "all okay again" with the red-neck vote after yet another major screw-up that would have resulted in the electorate, were he in office in any other part of the country, quickly and unapologetically turfing he and his party from office at the first opportunity; 5) Albertans' general apathy when it comes to the democratic process - if you actually run the numbers the Klein government's peak "62 per cent majority" was actually won with less than 40% of the eligible vote; and, perhaps most importantly; 6) Canada's "democratic deficit", which is often pointed out by federal Conservative supporters from Alberta to be an "Ottawa phenonemon", more specifically, an "eastern Liberal" phenomenon, is actually, contrary to "common knowledge", most acute right here in Alberta. Alberta's legislature sits fewer days than any other provincial legislature in the country and therefore gives opposition parties fewer opportunities to hold the government's "feet to the fire" than any other jurisdiction in Canada. And, we also share one thing (at least) in common with Quebec - our riding boundaries are purposefully skewed to favour the "rural vote" which in Alberta leads to an over-representation of "Conservatives" in the legislative assembly while in Quebec it results in an over-representation of separatists (PQ) in the National Assembly. Garth of the Forest 01:26, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Writing up a Legacy section on anyone is tricky. Legacy pieces are almost always filled with PoV's. PoV's are frowned upon at Wikipedia. GoodDay 16:55, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Old Premier/New Premier
When the PC Party chooses its new Leader, that person will not become premier immediately. Therefore, wait until Klein actually leaves office (as Premier), before posting the departure date in the Infobox. Furthermore, until his successor takes office ,put 'Designate' (ie Premier-Designate), next to Klein successor's name in Infobox. GoodDay 17:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC) :Klein dosen't leave office, until December 15th, 2006. Date is backed by External Link to CBC news. GoodDay 01:32, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
