Talk:Raki (alcoholic beverage)

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[edit] Comments

[edit] Name

I would rather expect this article to be at Rakı, as this is the correct Turkish spelling of the word. The current situation is the opposite -- Rakı redirects here. Any thoughts on that? --Yuzz 19:05, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

  • A nice detail but still I am happy because they don't name Rakı as a non-Turkish drink and they don't claim that it is belong to another region. With respect, the noble member of the Kayı Tribe, Deliogul 16:36, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I thought the same, especially given that the sounds of the two letters are so different. "Raku" would be a better transliteration. Scott.wheeler 21:40, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
  • "Raki" is the form found in English-language dictionaries.--Chris 05:38, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Contents


The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no move. -- tariqabjotu (joturner) 03:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
  • Oppose per WP:UE. It is poor form not to dot i's in English. -  AjaxSmack  00:41, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose. I don't even know what the last character is in your proposal, but it's not on my keyboard. Raki has more than one use, and you can't just spell it incorrectly to get around disambiguation. Kafziel 12:43, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose per above. Keep it simple. --Dhartung | Talk 11:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose - I'd suggest merging the stub Tsikoudia into Raki (alcoholic beverage), which seem to be local varieties of the same booze. If the alternative name for Rangi is taken care of in a dab message, there's no longer a need for a disambiguation page, and Raki (alcoholic beverage) can be moved to Raki, which seems to be the most familiar name for the beverage in English. --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 16:21, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments
  • I see that the reason for suggesting this change hasn't quite got through. There are few things called raki, so that is a disambiguation page. The Turkish drink is properly called Rakı, where the final, dotless ı is a separate letter in the Turkish alphabet. Talk about 'English' and 'incorrect' is rather nonsensical when this is a Turkish word. For instance, why is Bahá'í got accute accents in it? You do not need to have the letter on your keyboard, you can find the letter in the 'characters' section below the Wikipedia edit box. Searching presents no problems, as the new spelling would be linked from the Raki disambiguation, and the old name Raki (alcoholic beverage) is unlikely to be what anyone types into the search box anyway. — Gareth Hughes 22:12, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
    • That special characters box doesn't show up until you edit a page. It's not available on normal pages. The disambiguation page does its job, and changing the title won't make this article any easier to find. We should use English whenever possible. The guideline states: "Article titles should use the Latin alphabet, not any other alphabets or other writing systems such as syllabaries or Chinese characters. However, any non-Latin-alphabet native name should be given within the first line of the article (with a Latin-alphabet transliteration if the English name does not correspond to a transliteration of the native name). Also, a non-Latin-alphabet redirect could be created to link to the actual Latin-alphabet-titled article." Kafziel 22:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
      • You may then want to read up on Latin alphabet, because the Turkish alphabet is a derivative of it: Turkish was 'latinised'. The guideline you quoted specifies 'other alphabets or other writing systems such a syllabaries. Another example is Émilie du Châtelet. Under your reckoning she should be renamed Emilie du Chatelet — and I think there you may have the francophiles up in arms. Rakı is a Turkish word, which is not pronunced as an English word raki, the word in its correct spelling appears at the beginning of this article. The final letter is a letter of the Latin alphabet: Unicode puts it in the Latin block. Unless, of course, you mean to restrict us to ASCII. Wikipedia supports Unicode and allows us to use extended Latin alphabet letters where these letters are part of the proper name of the subject of the article, like Émilie. — Gareth Hughes 22:48, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
        • Rakı may be a Turkish word but "raki" is an English word in that it appears in numerous spirits or liquor encyclopedias and bartending guides and is almost always spelled "raki," not rakı. WP:UE -  AjaxSmack  03:16, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
          • Gareth, there are quite a few people on Wikipedia who do like to name articles using all sorts of obscure diacritics because they are "right". Remember that we are making an encyclopedia which should be useful and it is more logical that someone would type an "i" in their search engine. The correct name can be in the article introduction, but don't use weird characters in article names. --Dhartung | Talk 11:17, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] Denizz removal of Citations

Denizz Please explain why you find it necessary to remove the well researched and sourced neutral bibliographic citations that I added to the history section of the article? The history of Raki started well before the Ottoman period. Araku 14:31, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

This is not about the distillation method, you have interpreted that source to reach your own conclusions into saying that it was a precursor to Raki - that is original research.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Baristarim (talk • contribs) 14:43, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

Whats so hard to understand, Distillation is part of the process of making Raki, so it is very relevant to talk about the origins of distillation (albeit briefly) and the first mentions of Raki in the history section, The article is about “Raki (alcoholic beverage)” in general and not specifically “Turkish Raki” as several of the Turkish Wikipedians have implied. There is really no reason of removing at all for removing all the history info of Raki prior to the Ottoman period. The info is going back, (mosto of it) although slightly reworded as to avoid original research ;)Araku 20:22, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

So, GreekWarrior, is that you? :)) Listen, distillation is part of the process of making every single drink out there - it doesn't have a particular bearing on the drinks themselves; especially who might have invented distillation two thousand years ago belongs to Distillation. Baristarim 20:30, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

OK Ill remove the distillation references to their appropriate place but the rest of the article stays, PS GreekWarrior is not me I dont know wtf your talking about Araku 20:45, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Greek (cretan) raki has its own article. Albanian raki, which was very different from this one, had its own article and now has it again. Raki mentioned here is more similar to ouzo than these, we have a separate article for all of them, as they are distinct. I am now assuming that you did not do any original research and only wrote what is given in the references (maybe in a different way). Is that correct? Please remove any OR you might have made, if you made some. So the references are are not just about distillation but also about Raki, right? I am asking this because you were confused with that, you thought this was the right place to put info about distillation, which is wrong Imo. Also, for instance "(raqi or alcohol)" is not welcome, unless raqi means alcohol, in which case it is irrelevant. Furthermore, what ancient Greeks in the third century AD?

Writing references gives us a responsibility to avoid OR, and see whether they are reliable and relevant. We need to be careful. I'd appreciate it very much if you checked the references once more and made sure that they are about today's raki. Different stuff get different articles, see gyros, doner and shwarma, even though they are pretty close they have separate articles, as they are somewhat different, their differences was found notable by the editors. The references should not be about Cretan raki, either, which has a separate article, unless Cretan raki and this raki have the same history.

Last but not least, don't blame me with trolling. denizTC 01:51, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


"Raka: the name was given to the product obtained from the first stage in distillation of grain spirit, directly frm the mash in the vat... Raka as a technical term appeared simultaneously with the production of vodka...The term raka has it's origins in the Arabic word araq (compare to Turkish raki, and Indonesian arak)". So what you were adding was about raka, which as a term has the same origins with some other drink called Raki. That is their only relation referenced by the book. "...In the Greek text of New Testament the Aramaic word raka or rakha is used to mean empty or foolish..." Unrelated, unrelated, unrelated, unrelated. No relation to Ancient Greeks, no relation to ancient Greeks, no relation to ancient Greeks. Do not call me a troll, I am not, I don't know about you. I am trying my best to assume good faith, and I will assume that you did not read the page well, because otherwise I would guess that you would have listened to me, and removed all OR. Good night denizTC 09:43, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't have Forbes' book yet, please remove any OR. Raki is not rakia or rakha or raka, they all come from the Arabic word araq, and that is it. denizTC 09:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move 2

I think we should make one of the following two moves: either

"Raki (alcoholic beverage)" to "Rakı"

or two moves

"Raki -> "Raki (disambig)"         and         "Raki (alcoholic beverage)" -> "Raki"

The reason is to avoid too many redirects for the general audience of this article. See also Gareth Hughes' discussion above. Like he mentioned, WP:UE does not apply here; a modified Latin based alphabet is used in Turkish, just like it is used in German, English, and French. (See Wikipedia:WikiProject_France/Categorization for a list of France related categories, and then you can take a look at those categories to see the common usage of 'French characters'. Also see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Germany/Conventions#Alphabet) DenizTC 04:43, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Image:RakiOED.PNG

In English language it is spelt "Raki" not "Rakı", "Rakı" is the kind of word you would find in a Turkish dictionary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kafetzou (talk • contribs) 13:50, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

How about the second suggestion, move the disambig page to Raki(disambig). Then move this page to "Raki", and a {{for}} on top and mention the disambig page? Now, wikireaders need to click once more to get to this article. This makes an extra load for the servers, as well. Most wikireaders would probably want to see this article when they type raki, not a disambig page. DenizTC 01:04, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Balkan

Hi, how is the raki called in the yugoslavian lands? All "rakia"? Mallerd (talk) 17:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Pictures

That article definitely needs more up to date pictures of the New and Older Rakı bottles. Someone please help!! :)

Cheers! --Eae1983 (talk) 13:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)