Talk:Radical Faeries

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Contents

[edit] Gender Liberation?

What is "gender liberation" in this context? Martin

I meant both "liberation from gender roles" and "liberation from interalized oppression for people of societally disapproved or unrecognized gender or gender role." Feel free to make this clearer. Bill

[edit] White Crane?

I see someone removed the White Crane Journal. It does often have articles about Faeries - shouldn't it stay? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:20, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

It should, very much a publishing faerie authority.Benjiboi 08:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] John Burnside article linked to wrong John Burnside <EOM>

The link needs correctinng...

I wonder how one would disambig John Burnside. I know his page (if one existed) would have a parenthetical beside it - something like John Burnside (noun). Can anyone propose a suitable noun? "Faerie" doesn't seem right. "Activist" maybe? "Old guy" seems disrespectful... Thoughts? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

How about Gay Liberation Movement activist. Or simply activist. --Lizzard 01:29, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Radical Faerie Co-founder seems most appropriate, at least everytime I've ever talked with him, and his nickname has been N'John as he has mostly been associated with his partner Harry Hay until Harry's death.Benjiboi 08:12, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Relevance/Importance

Harry Hay founded the Mattachine society which was a key foundation for the gay rights movement ultimately, so he is definitely relevant historically and culturally. maybe that needs to be addded in the header since relevance/importance has been questioned.

This is certainly an important piece of the history of the gay rights movement and of gay men and women in the U.S. and I will try to find more sources and references if that's necessary. On what grounds is notability being challenged? I would like to say that I think this is a spurious challenge -- and one that should be questioned for an attempt to erase the history of non-dominant cultural groups.--Lizzard 01:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

notability needs to be asserted or challenged under WP:ORG.
A company, corporation, organization, team, religion, group, product, or service is notable if it has been the subject of coverage in secondary sources. Such sources must be reliable, and independent of the subject. The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources should be cited to establish notability. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability. Once notability is established, primary sources may be used to add content. Ultimately, and most importantly, all content must be attributable.
a few sources are cited, but none is referred to directly, and none appears to be dedicated to this group in particular. One appears to be a book about Harry Hay. It may be argued that this article should be moved to Harry Hay if his group cannot be asserted to be notable. In this case, WP:BIO would apply. With 25,000 google hits, or 300 google books hits, I assume it is possible to assert notability, but it will also need to be in fact asserted. dab (š’³) 14:15, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
The article needs to be improved but is quite safe per this Google book search. Part of the issue is they seem to be highly decentralized and seem to operate on consensus with no leaders. Thus the RFD (magazine) and their online communities are they main vehicles of communication besides local and regional gatherings. I think the article is safe but definitely should be expanded. Benjiboi 23:14, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Harry Hay as RF founder

Harry Hay was a very early member, from 1976, but not a founding member (as he makes clear in his biography). There is a connection to the Angels of Light, the Cockettes, and Nomenus, other early gay organizations. I do have some books on the history of gay liberation movements in the US. and can go try to source this and fix the article up. Please don't delete it, in the meantime. --Lizzard 01:28, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

The Faeries as such didn't even exist until 1979, so your statement can't be quite accurate. Though this article is pretty clear that he was one of the initiators, not the founder. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 04:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi SatyrTN. Unfortunately I don't have the source in front of me, but I think if you look in Hays' biography he talks about going to an already existing faerie meeting in 76 or 77. I could be wrong. When I can confirm I'll come back and source it properly... --Lizzard 23:07, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Some quick research- "Hay launched the first ever Spiritual Conference for Radical Faeries in Arizona, in 1978, with over two hundred men attending. Offering invocations to the spirits, Hay called on the crowd to "throw off the ugly green frog skin of hetero-imitation to find the shining Faerie prince beneath." Needless to say, this intense air of celebration in a natural setting precipitated all manner of pagan practices, circle castings, Wiccan-inspired rituals, ecstatic dancing, communal feasting and Nature based religious offerings.

While there has always been a heavy emphasis on creating a celebratory, fantasy oriented free-space, the core intent of the Faeries remains sober to this day; in a sociological strategy repeated throughout cultural-anthropological history, in order to make an 'institutionally complete' sub- or counterculture, it is necessary to provide all the elements needed to sustain it. A Queer-specific spirituality, for Hay, was the missing cornerstone." Benjiboi 19:34, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removing POV

I removed the mentioning that the group is "beloved" and "fascinating." ā€”Preceding unsigned comment added by AgnosticPreachersKid (talk ā€¢ contribs) 11:43, 15 January 2008 (UTC)