Talk:Racing Club de Avellaneda

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[edit] article

Great article. I did do some minor work on the first paragraph, just clarifying that the barrio was part of the metro area, not the city, as the wiki on the community states. --{{SUBST:User:Coryma}} 23:44, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

N Not done - no consensus whatsoever for the move. Neıl ☎ 10:35, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

"Racing Club" most commonly means this side. I propose that the Argentina club's article be moved to simple "Racing Club"... and the disambiguation page there be renamed "Racing Club (disambiguation)".

From the others, the two most noted clubs are Racing Club de Strasbourg and Racing de Santander, unlike the Argentina club these two are never just known as "Racing Club".. their common name is RC Strasbourg and Racing Santander. - Sivorian (talk) 14:30, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Support. This club is the most important "Racing Club", having won the Copa Intercontinental in 1967 making them the most significant Racing Club in terms of international competitions, in fact they are the only Racing Club to have won a significant continental title (Copa Libertadores 1966). They are also the only major team consistently referred to as simply "Racing Club". King of the NorthEast 17:25, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose no evidence of usage of "Racing Club" to predominantly mean this club in English 132.205.44.5 (talk) 22:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose per 132.205.44.5. JPG-GR (talk) 02:46, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose It is a common name and no evidence is given to support the claim of being significantly more well-known by the simple name alone than all the others. older ≠ wiser 19:00, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose per anonymous user --Lox (t,c) 22:34, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
  • This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related page moves. Woody (talk) 22:45, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose I agree with the sentiments of the above comments. There is no basis for renaming this in the English Encyclopedia. Racing Club is very common in the English speaking world. Woody (talk) 22:45, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Support. It is the name by which it's known worldwide, and especially in Latin America. -- Alexf(Talk/Contribs) 23:06, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose - There are too many "Racing Club"s in the world to apply the term specifically to this club. Even the club's own official website refers to them as "Racing Club de Avellaneda" on a number of occasions, not least the titlebar and in the title graphic. – PeeJay 00:07, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose per many of the above. There are just too many "Racing Club"s in the world, as PeeJay rightly says, and there is not a single indication that the term "Racing Club" predominantly refers to this particular club, as 132.205.44.5 rightly says. AecisBrievenbus 01:13, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - 132.205.44.5 (from the North America) ignorantly asserted on RFM that the club was not refered to as just Racing Club in the English media, yet every single major English language media proves this shallow unresearched opinion to be comepltely wrong, so his stance fails Wikipedia:Verifiability, and this evidence proves that they are known as just "Racing Club" worldwide.
BBC.co.uk - "Racing Club of Argentina"
ESPN.com - "Racing Club Profile"
SportsIllustrated.com - "Team Pages - Racing Club"
People Daily Online - "Simeone to coach Racing Club"
DailyMail.co.uk - "spells at (...) Racing Club in the 1990s"
NYTimes.com - "play at Racing Club’s stadium"
TimesOnline.co.uk - "the antics of Racing Club kicking Celtic"
Guardian.co.uk - "coaching career at Racing Club"
Topix.com - "Moralez set to leave Racing Club and.."
DailyStar.net - "Racing Club and San Lorenzo"
SportsNetwork.com - "Racing Club coach Ubaldo Fillol"
Reuters.com - "returns to Racing Club after 11 years"
Goal.com "place at Racing Club's stadium"
AOL.com - "Racing Club 4-2 Godoy Cruz"
Yahoo.com - "Racing Club and led Estudiantes", etc, etc.
He has yet to provide an example of the English language media consistantly calling the club "Racing Club de Avellaneda". None of the other, historically less significant clubs have the name in common media as simply "Racing Club" they have different names, and this is the club who is housed at RacingClub.com - Sivorian (talk) 06:46, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Why not have the dab article at the main name space when it is not clear that there is a primary use? Vegaswikian (talk) 04:18, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
    • I will add that the nominator moved the dab page from the main name. I'm tempted to undo that move. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:42, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose, there are other prominent Racing Clubs such as Strasbourg. Punkmorten (talk) 11:22, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion moved here from WP:RM

  • Racing Club → Racing Club (disambiguation) — naming conventions, as per this —Sivorian (talk) 14:34, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Racing Club de Avellaneda → Racing Club — WP:COMMON as per this —Sivorian (talk) 14:34, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
    • "Racing Club" unspecified, may mean the Avellaneda Racing Club to an Argentinian, but not to Europeans or USA citizens etc. There are infinity racing clubs of many sorts in the world. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:51, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
      • Support move, see talk page for reasoning.King of the NorthEast 17:29, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
        • It may be well known to Argentinians. But I and many know absolute zero about Argentinian football, and there are thousands of clubs across the world who are involved in racing of one sort and another. The name Racing Club is not specific enough. Leave it at Racing Club de Avellaneda, which is clearer and much more specific. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:16, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
    In the disambiguation the name Racing Club is used in conjunction to football and rugby clubs only, something which USAers do not know about anyway, so I don't see how that is a measuring stick. Non of the others listed in the disambiguation are known to people from the USA either.
    It has nothing to do with Argentinians or not. To fans of football worldwide in general (Europeans included) "Racing Club" most commonly means this team, as they are the most noted and successful. To further prove this, when "Racing Club" is entered into a Google.com search, this team's English language article is the very first result of any site on the net. It is also worth the noting, RacingClub.com was deemed specific enough for this team to make it their address. - Sivorian (talk) 22:34, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
    English Google Search: "Racing Club" 1,320,000 ghits - "racing club" -avellaneda 1,300,000 ghits = 1.5% usage. 132.205.44.5 (talk) 22:38, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Oppose this is not the English usage of Racing Club. 132.205.44.5 (talk) 22:47, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

How does that show anything at all in regards to this, when the whole point in the move is that the club is most commonly refered to as Racing Club, with Avellaneda not usually mentioned at all.

Also you're delussional to claim its not "English usage" and you have not provided any proof to back up such a stupid claim. Racing Club is an English language words (not Spanish) and is used in the English language media, just because some people from North America are ignorant to the world's most well known sport does not mean igorance is global.

Here is solid proof that the club are known, in English language media as "Racing Club" (Yes NA's, people talk about football outside of Spanish language too!) BBC.co.uk - "Racing Club of Argentina", ESPN.com - "Racing Club Profile", SportsIllustrated.com - "Team Pages - Racing Club", People Daily Online - "Simeone to coach Racing Club", DailyMail.co.uk - "spells at (...) Racing Club in the 1990s", NYTimes.com - "play at Racing Club’s stadium", TimesOnline.co.uk - "the antics of Racing Club kicking Celtic", Guardian.co.uk - "coaching career at Racing Club", Topix.com - "Moralez set to leave Racing Club and..", DailyStar.net - "Racing Club and San Lorenzo", SportsNetwork.com - "Racing Club coach Ubaldo Fillol", Reuters.com - "returns to Racing Club after 11 years", Goal.com "place at Racing Club's stadium", AOL.com - "Racing Club 4-2 Godoy Cruz", Yahoo.com - "Racing Club and led Estudiantes", etc.

That is basically every major English language media outlet calling them just "Racing Club" in English language articles. So are you going to continue to wallin in egotistical "If I haven't heard of it in North America, it doesn't exist" ignorance or what? Proof is all there. Tell you what, show me a list of English media which DO call them "Racing Club de Avellaneda"- Sivorian (talk) 06:25, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

  • That it can be called just "Racing Club" is not the point that's being disputed. The point being disputed is whether it is the only or main one referred to as "Racing Club", in the same way that any other disambiguation pages list many things that have the same title. We have to be precise when choosing article titles to make sure that they aren't ambiguous. Aside from these things, please don't post back and forth arguments directly on the WP:RM page. I will set up a multimove for you this time. Dekimasuよ! 10:38, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
    • Actually, I see that there is already a discussion on one of the talk pages, and that you have moved the dab unilaterally and apparently against consensus. I will move this discussion to Talk:Racing Club de Avellaneda. If there is no consensus for a move there, the dab page move should likely be reverted as well. Dekimasuよ! 10:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose, and also move the redirect for Racing Club to the disambiguation page rather than this article. - fchd (talk) 12:44, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The name Racing Club does not necessarily mean this particular Racing Club. Agree with fchd--203.220.171.83 (talk) 11:13, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[edit] High importance assessment

Racing Club more than meet the criteria specified on the importance scale for High impoortance articles. "Article is extremely notable, but has not achieved international notability, or is only notable within a particular continent". Racing Club won the Copa Libertadores in 1966, which is the most prestigious tournament in South American club football. They also won the Copa Intercontinental in 1967 making them one time club world champions. They were also the most successful team in the amateur era of Argentine football. The only way the Racing Club article can be seen as failing to meet the definition of high importance articles is if the notability of their achievements is reduced by the fact that most of them occurred a fairly long time ago. This is why I am changing it back King of the NorthEast 01:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I agree. I remember seeing them in 1967 when they won the Intercontinental (yeah, I'm old :) -- Alexf(Talk/Contribs) 01:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Players

Nelson Chabay is from Uruguay. changed flag to URU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Claudio148 (talk • contribs) 01:43, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] fixed the poor english

i fixed the poor english inside this article... i felt bad for the club... lol —Preceding unsigned comment added by CF-cid (talk • contribs) 01:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)