Image talk:Race Differences in Intelligence by country (Lynn).png

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ATTENTION: On reaching this page on 27-03-2008 I noticed that almost EVERY COMMENT MADE HERE is about Australia, or the factual accuracy, yadda yadda. This is the average IQ of INDIGENOUS NATIVES of each nation. It is not saying Australia has an average IQ of 65. Australia's national average IQ is 110. Learn to read people!

Contents

[edit] Random Babble

Inappropriate to use this image in IQ articles - clearly violates WP:NOR by synthesizing data in a novel way. --JereKrischel 08:49, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Australian sub-morons(It's inappropriate to say that word!!!!!) would like to know how this image was derived ... maybe we can import some more of those brilliant Chinese to explain it to us. Use little words please. Oh, wait, maybe we should move this discussion to the simple English wiki.

IQ Scores are centered at 100 so any deviation from that (over a large, random sample of people) would mean that the test was inappropriately centered. This deviation could be the result of culturally-linked questions and different tests being used in different areas. Suffice it to say, this map is 100% rubbish. What are you talking about?!?!?!? Where's the maps?!?!?!?

[edit] So stupid

Everybody except Japanese and Chinese would agree with me. This map is rubbish. I am Turkish. The European part of Turkey is higher than Asian side. Everybody in Turkey knows that Istanbulians are not half as smart as rest of the Turkish. In fact according to this map, Istanbulians who live in the Euro side are smarter than the ones who live in Asian side. What the hell? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.174.144.145 (talk) 09:07, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Keep

As long as the image correctly represents the data collected in the study for which it is linked it should not be deleted. One may rightfully object to the manor in which the research was conducted or the manner in which the collected data had been analyzed, but any such objection does not invalidate the image until the entire study is invalidated.

It would be more appropriate for those that disagree with the data represented by the image to site additional research showing contradictory results, or elaborate on the collection and analytical methods represented in the image.

If the source is reliable (or unless someone can prove otherwise), we should keep it - freedom of speech.

[edit] Racist

The author of this really doesn't like Australians. Maybe this should be renamed to indicate it's connection to Richard Lynn's book Race_Differences_in_Intelligence, since people are linking to this directly. 68.186.109.59 06:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

an average of 60 for australia?!!

somehow i have a very hard time swallowing that...

[edit] Racist - I Vote Delete

This is a NPOV violation, this article is based on long discredited theories.

It should be deleted or labeled as racist propaganda.

--Aunk 16:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Questionable

Either we need a reputable source for the underlying data or it should be deleted

myork 02:07, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

http://www.rlynn.co.uk/ - have fun studying. (And I know, the data and the map is not "nice" and it IS offensive to many. Does that mean that it is incorrect? Maybe, the problem is with the concept of IQ in general... hmmm?)

207.81.160.71 05:26, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Way to go

Let's delete every article that offends someone. That will make a difference. Don't like the truth? No problem, just delete it from Wikipedia...[/sarcasm]

If it's bunk, then yes, lets. Piuro 09:35, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
This map is based on Richard Lynn's data. At least that's how I understand this line from the file history: "derived from BlankMap-World.png based on Lynn (2006) values". It displays the calculated average intelligence of *indigenous* populations. Is the PC police going to decide which source of information is acceptable? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.82.78.88 (talk) 19:20, 20 January 2007 (UTC).
Keep - let's make clear - IQ tests don't measure intelligence or worth - they just measure something. Not surprised Australian aborigines test poorly - how could an aborigine relate to the logic and written language questions on an IQ test? How could a white American suburbanite survive in the outback? The map shows only that some people created a test, called it "IQ test", and passed it around. Doesn't mean much, settles nothing. (If there is a global environmental disaster -- and survival skills become important -- and the aborigines and Bushmen survive -- and the highly refined people don't survive -- now, that will settle it.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.228.224.131 (talk) 04:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

sorry, pressed a wrong button, think its back to the way it was - whatever that may be Mike2525 16:11, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] looks more like a random map re-labeled an IQ map

When I looked at it, it almost looks like a population density map to me (which would explain why Austrailia is so dark; it's sparsely populated). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 143.127.131.4 (talk) 17:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

I done be ejibicated and I think this map could me just bout nothing with IQ. I think it i should be bout inteligents.... your loving Tassy! \

This map is BS, it says it's only for "indigenous" people. So what they're saying is most Australians somehow aren't really native.

I'm sick and tired of this racist nonsense, because it arbitrarily discounts some nations' people as being "indigenous" and others not. Fact is, every country has been formed by conquets, migrations, etc. The Chinese we know of today expanded out from the Yellow river valley, colonizing and intermarrying with the people who lived in the rest of today's China. Jared Diamond wrote an article "How Africa Became Black" about the Bantu expansion where it was the same instance of colonization and intermarriage. Hell, the ancestors of the Zulu arrived in what's modern South Africa after the Dutch did. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rsol55 (talk • contribs) 02:45, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

I agree. technically speaking, everyone in the world emigrated, directly or indirectly, from africa as early homonids, and setting some arbitrary date at which any other cultural movement is considered different somehow is nonsense. The idea of the I.Q. map is not objectionable, but one that excludes a significant portion of the world's population for obscure reasons should be taken down until a sutable replacement can be found.--MulletManDan 21:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

First of all, the image should be renamed to reflect the true chart data. Secondly, I don't think Lynn intended to spark a nationality debate. This is simply a map reflecting the IQ's of the indigenous populations around the world. Indigenous meaning those inhabited in the past few millenia. He is not denouncing the citizenships of anyone in those countries. Lastly, the chart is taken way out of context. The Aboriginal population here is small, have been socially repressed and social integration isn't as well established as other countries. An IQ average does not reflect the intelligence of a social minority.Shiidii 02:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Funny

As an Australian I find this a good joke... The fact that there is some serious discussion about this makes it funnier still. In the vast wasteland of the internet, this has better places for its continued existence.

[edit] Meaningless - I vote delete

Unsupportable chart, seemingly intended to be inflamatory and to make broad generalizations about global culture. Fails reasonability on the grounds that testing patterns for IQ of illiterate cultures and isolated groups have not even been established in many cases. Fails to distinguish appropriately amongst indiginous peoples, current occupants, transitory individuals, etc. Not endorsed by an organization large enough to bring true credibility to the information. I suggest deletion.

[edit] Delete

I have little faith that the image is identical to any that may exist in the book cited -> I would vote keep if the actual data table used to build the graph was included it its description, and attributed directly to a page number in a book. --JereKrischel 08:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Would you bother to actually check the mentioned source instead of making suggestions based on "faith"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.119.190.110 (talk • contribs).
If the citation was given to the actual data table, and a page number was given in a book, I would check the source. You seem to misunderstand my concern. --JereKrischel 20:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Keep it!! I've emailed it to a load of people because i think its funny. I agree with the earlier point however that an average american couldn't survive in the outback, and similarly an aboriginal cant do an IQ test. (IQ can change drastically with a little practice.) I would have no faith that this data represents anything other than a good laugh.

As someone who has consistently scored high on IQ tests, I have to agree with the above statement. I couldn't hit a lick in the middle of nowhere, but I can damn sure do standardized tests. call me arrogant, but i know that while I'm smart on paper, I couldn't find my dinner if my life depended on it. IQ tests don't take that into account. I vote that the image is a moot point and no educational value is derived from its presence. 71.164.216.188 19:08, 24 January 2007 (UTC) P.s. I will get an account someday.

I say keep it. Certainly it's a highly controversial topic, but the sources are referenced, and also the controversy surrounding it is mentioned each time the picture is cited -- so what's the problem? There are articles on Wikipedia that discuss Holocaust denial etc -- I certainly think that's @($@ed up but it doesn't mean we shouldn't at least be talking about it and documenting it. Tribalsushi 09:46, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, it's generally recognised that IQ tests are a) not a reliable indicator of intelligence, and b) can be (and often are) culturally biased. This isn't an intelligence map, it's an IQ map. Tribalsushi 09:51, 25 January 2007 (UTC)




[edit] Correct the data

I voted keep basd upon the assumption that the data used here was taken from Lynn. However, some people have argued that this map was just made up to without using Lynn's data. Can someone please figure out if the data is correct or not? If is a correct quotation of Lynn, please rename the file to include Lynn's name (since no one really believe's Lynn anyway). If the data is just made up and isn't being quoted from Lynn, just renominate the file for deletion, this time as a hoax falsely representing its contents, or just speedy delete it as a hoax. JeffBurdges 11:59, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Relabel image

This map doesn't represent the average IQ of people from countries/regions, it represents the average IQ of indigenous people. Completely disregarding the fact the IQ tests aren't a reliable test of intelligence and prone to cultural discrimination/profiling; as well as other things that should be cleared up (validity of source material), the title is at best misleading, at worst deceptive. I have no opinion towards deletion, and discussions about IQ tests are for somewhere else, but incorrect labeling of a map or chart is not worthy of wikipedia. CgaWolf 04:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Average IQ of 60 in australia?

lol! That's ridiculous yet funny —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.178.65.154 (talk) 02:32, 20 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] IQ Map Australia's average IQ is 110

Australians found out their IQ scores by watching the Nine Network’s inaugural broadcast of THE NATIONAL IQ TEST 2002 – the first time an IQ test of a whole continent has been conducted on a single night. Hosted by Eddie McGuire and Catriona Rowntree, THE NATIONAL IQ TEST 2002 provided a snapshot of just how intelligent Australia is. Following are the results from Nine’s broadcast of THE NATIONAL IQ TEST 2002:

Australia’s smartest states and territories

  ACT – 114 
  Western Australia – 111 
  Queensland – 111 
  Tasmania – 111 
  New South Wales – 110 
  South Australia – 109 
  Northern Territory – 108 
  Victoria – 107

Australia’s smartest city

  Canberra – 114 
  Perth – 112 
  Brisbane –112 
  Hobart – 110 
  Sydney – 110 
  Adelaide – 110 
  Darwin – 108 
  Melbourne – 107
                                               fishstu 28/3/07

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fishstu (talk • contribs) 04:53, 28 March 2007 (UTC). the original people of australia = abhoridginals = retarded (IQ 60) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.161.0.190 (talk) 22:51, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] World literacy Rates

This seems to conflict with the map of the world literacy rate. Notice across the horizontal from north Africa through the middle east to southern Asia where there is alot of red indicating areas with very low literacy rates but the iq map shows that entire region as having an average iq of 85 to 90-- Then in southern africa where the literacy rate is more comfortably arround 70-80% and southern portion of Africa with iqs of 70 or less. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Adovid (talk • contribs) 04:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Cultural relativism?

Just to note that also here in Finland (i.e. likes of Tatu Vanhanen and in much similar fashion in most European countries) we have rather similar research that are used mostly as weapons to counter immigration e.g. from Africa (and to support a strong sense of superiority over everyone else). The main problem with IQ tests is that they are by no means accurate nor do they represent anything but the culture where they were created. Anyone and their niece can tell that there's no measurement stick for intelligence per se. For the time being, publishing something like this other than for the mere reason of curiosity is questionable at the very least. These kind of tests are roughly as accurate as it would be to measure intelligence of avarage US citizen by using a Finnish IQ test written in Finnish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.27.82.90 (talk) 11:59, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Racist

So the Muslim world is retarted, so is Australia and Eastern Europe. The few smart ones are the Chinese, the Brits and a few other nations. If this was truly the case, I wonder how India is a major economic power, and exactly how does the US and Australia survive! We live in a 60% retarted world!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.81.207.64 (talk) 09:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)