Talk:Quint (fire apparatus)

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How many firefighters typically man the vehicle? --|EPO| 21:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

The staffing decisions likely depend on the Standing operating procedures of whatever department is using it, but I believe most quints have space for a driver, an officer, and four crew members. -- Natalya 01:34, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick answer, but I got just another thing: I have some trouble to distinguish ladder trucks from quints on photos.. Is there something special to look for? E.g. is this a ladder or a quint? And I suppose this FDNY engine is not a quint? Thanks in advance. --|EPO| 10:38, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for taking a bit of time to get back. Don't worry, I have trouble distinguishing them too, since some ladder trucks can have pumps and still not be quints - it's certainly tough! I recall actually looking on the City of Gainseville FD website, and either finding out that it wasn't a quint or that I couldn't find out at all. As for the FDNY truck, it doesn't appear to have an aerial ladder, so I'm assuming it's not a quint. I've been looking all over for a picture, but to no avali... let me know if you find one! -- Natalya 03:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

WAIT! Hold the phones!!!!! I just checked out the city of Gainesville FD website again, and look what it says under the section "Aerial Apparatus": Tower 21 was purchased in 2001. It is unique in that not only does it serve in the capacity of an aerial, it carries water and can operate in the same manner as an engine. Tower 21 has a tank capacity of 250 gallons and flows up to 2000 GPM’s In the fire service, this type of equipment is commonly referred to as a “quint.” Awesome! Now the picture can be used. :) -- Natalya 03:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Strike that... upon further investigation, it appears to be a truck from Gainesville, Florida. Their website also has a picture, but talks about it being a tower and another truck being a separate quint. Perhaps I'm just misinterpreting it - see for yourself: [1]. -- Natalya 03:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Not easy.. But thanks for finding an url. I will try to ask GFR these questions and they will perhaps give me an answer I can use. Anyhow I will remember to post it here. --|EPO| 19:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

According to NFPA 1901, a quint must have a water tank capacity of at least 300 gallons in addition to an aerial device, a pump, hose capacity and ground ladders. Therefore, the Gainesville T21, with only 250 gallons would not qualify as a quint.

I am going to address this from my experience as a Fire Lieutenant having worked on a Quint company.

In our department (Palm Beach County, FL, Fire-Rescue), a "Quint" is a ladder truck that has the same capabilities as a "Triple-Combination" pumper. This means that it carries water, has a pump, and carries hose. We staff the Quints the same as an Engine company, which is 1 Lieutenant, 1 Driver/Operator, and 1 Firefighter. In their first due area, they act as an engine company, performing fire attack functions. In areas that they are "special called", they function as a truck company, performing aerial master stream operations, as well as search/rescue and forcible entry. In our dispatch protocols, all multi-story and commercial fires have a Quint responding in their initial dispatch (if it is in a Quint's first-due are, a second Quint is then dispatched).

Some departments utilize Quints as ladder companies (I believe Buffalo, NY did this). It seems somewhat a waste of resources to have an apparatus capable of being a fire attack vehicle, but not being able to be used as such.

Most traditional "ladder" trucks are usually just an aerial device, with a compliment of ground ladders and in many cases carries specialized extracation and rescue equipment, but no water or hose. Also, most Quints usually have a shorter aerial than traditional ladder trucks. In our Department a Quint is basically a pumper with an 85' aerial on top.

Some departments, such as Rochester, NY, operate their Quints as a multi-unit company, and usually have them respond with a "midi-pumper" as a support unit.

The advantage of a Quint is that you can get two units for the "price" of one. The downside of it is that if it is functioning as an engine company on an emergency scene, it is usually very difficult to reallocate it as an aerial unit.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

Lt. Craig Prusansky Palm Beach County Fire-Rescue Firerescuelieut 00:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your infomation and perspective, Firerescuelieut! Your expertise is most appreciated. If you happen to have taken any pictures of any of your quint(s), you should consider uploading them so we have a picture for this article. -- Natalya 00:22, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

So actually only 3 men on the vehicle? It seems like a pretty low number for a fire attack vehicle. I can see 3 should be enough for ladder operations - but for e.g. entering a building you'll need one man to operate the pump and you got two left. But I suppose as there's already smoke divers (does that expression even exist in English?) on the scene and the quint will function as a supportive unit. --|EPO| 08:43, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Only three men staff the vehicle in his department - it will vary from department to department. -- Natalya 12:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm full aware that he's talking about his own department: I'm just a bit surprised they can manage it with only 3. --|EPO| 13:04, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry! I misunderstood. :) -- Natalya 19:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The larger cities staff their engine companies with 4-6 people, but in Florida (and many other parts of the country), 3 people is the norm. In our department, a first alarm assignment brings you 2 engine companies of 3 each, 1 rescue (paramedic ambulance) company of 2-3, and a district chief. Usually, the first in units are an engine and rescue from the same firehouse, which gives you 5-6 people instantly. It is very seldom that 3 people are left to fight a fire for more than a couple of minutes. Also, we follow the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) codes. NFPA develops standards for fire departments in the US to follow. NFPA 1500 has what is nicknamed the "2-in, 2-out" rule. It basically states that if 2 firefighters enter the building, there must be 2 outside as backup (commonly called a RIT or RIC - Rapid Intervention Team/Crew). There are exceptions to this, specifically, if delaying entry will result in loss of life of a trapped person. But, in these cases, we have to document completely the reasons for entry before the RIC team was in place and the State Fire Marshal (for Florida) does an investigation.

In some parts of Florida, as well as some other parts of the country, the staffing is much less. The city of Delray Beach, FL, for example, staffs their engine companies with 2 people, and has 3 on their rescue (paramedic) units. Lake Worth, FL, staffs their engine companies with 2 and their rescues with 2, but they run everything together as a "task force", giving them 4 on a first alarm assignment. In Marion County (Ocala area), FL, the staffing is similar. Most stations have an engine with 2, and a paramedic rescue (non-transport squad type) with 2. About 1/4 of their stations have a transport capable rescue, and the numbers increase to 3 on rescue at these ones. On a fire call, the rescue is put out of service and their crew climbs aboard the engine to make a complete crew of either 4 or 5.

Let me clarify that in Florida, a "rescue" truck is a paramedic ambulance. In cities such as New York, a "rescue" is a "heavy rescue" unit. These are usually combined hazardous materials, dive rescue, high-angle rescue, and confined space rescue units. In our department, we call them "Special Operations". Other departments in Florida call them "Squads". You will find that each department calls their vehicles varies greatly based upon the region and usage.

Like I mentioned above, this is for a primarily suburban/rural career fire department. Our department runs 80% EMS calls and 20% fire calls, so we are staffed accordingly. Urban departments, especially ones that experience a high fire call volume, increase their staffing accordingly. Firerescuelieut 01:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the picture, but you might have to check the licensing of it to make sure that it's allowed for use on Wikipedia - it appears to be being considered for speedy deletion right now. I hope it works out, though. -- Natalya 00:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I got permission from the author of the picture, but if it is deleted, I'll try to get one next time I am down at that firehouse.

Firerescuelieut 01:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Pictures! Lovely! Thanks so much for getting those, Firerescueliet, it's fantastic to finally have them. -- Natalya 21:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Although it would be even better if they were uploaded to Commons. This way I could insert them in my Danish article :) --|EPO| 19:50, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

If Firerescuelieut doesn't have a Commons account, I should be able to take care of moving them there. -- Natalya 21:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)