Talk:Qingdao

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[edit] Spam

thatsqingdao.com Qingdao Travel & Living Guide is a neither a commercial site nor does it participate in/or promote spamming! It is run by locals who care about the Qingdao Community and want to provide current, accurate, and unbiased information to ALL. We support the local government and our site provides expats and travelers with valuable information. Please take a look for your self! OhNoitsJamie's actions are limiting the amount of valuable information that Wiki users are able to gather about Qingdao.

You've been warned multiple times for spamming. This is your last warning. OhNoitsJamie Talk 16:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

OhNoitsJamie, why do you continue to delete valuable information? Why can't you edit it instead?

You've been blocked. If you continue after the block expires, you will be blocked indefinitely. In the meantime, read WP:EL and WP:SPAM. OhNoitsJamie Talk 17:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I am unaffiliated with the website, but I believe it is not spam. It is one of the few sites (almost the only site in English) to give any information on the Qingdao International Beer Festival. My vote is to de-blacklist the thatsqingdao website. The blacklist prevented me from creating an article on the festival and I have found various websites in Chinese supporting the information on thatsqingdao. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeff007s (talk • contribs) 05:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Jeff. You were not the first to cite ThatsQingdao.com
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-08/09/content_660970.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.3.11.76 (talk) 23:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Simple Question :: Simple Answer

OhNoitsJamie, why don't you ever give a logical answer to a direct question? Your normal response is to delete the question in the discussion section and site some ambiguous rule of which Wiki has clearly made exceptions to. Why don't you let the rest of the community respond? Your actions have really set back the progress of Wiki's Qingdao articles! Most of the local community here in Qingdao will probably stop contributing because of your actions! Why do you act as if you are speaking on behalf of the entire Wiki community?

Question: Why can't the Laoshan article have an External Link section? Why do you consider a comprehensive gallery photographed and put together by Qingdao locals SPAM? I'm fearful to even put the link in question because of your previous actions. Can we please discuss this issue?


Wiki’s guidlines State:

"Be respectful to others and their points of view. This means primarily: Do not simply revert changes in a dispute. When someone makes an edit you consider biased or inaccurate, improve the edit, rather than reverting it. Provide a good edit summary when making significant changes that other users might object to. The Three Revert Rule forbids the use of reverts in repetitive succession. If you encounter rude or inappropriate behavior, resist the temptation to respond unkindly, and do not make personal attacks.

Writing according to the "perfect article guidelines" and following the NPOV policy can help you write "defensively", and limit your own bias in your writing. For some guidelines, see Wikipedia:Wikiquette." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gaoshan (talk • contribs)

I'm reverting spam per external link guidelines. This has nothing to do with WP:NPOV. From your contribution history, it's clear that your primary objective is to put links to your site here. OhNoitsJamie Talk 15:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I respect your decision. I do not want Wiki to be a repository of external links. If I look at your history I could make judgments too. Simply put, I just want to give Wiki users a link that provides up to date information from Qingdao locals. Qingdao Travel & Living Guide only generates revenue from the Google ads. As you know, this almost pays for the yearly hosting and registration. The time put into this site comes from the hart and soul of the Qingdao people. I am only trying to give Wiki users the real feeling of Qingdao.--Gaoshan 03:59, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Qingdao Information Center for International Visitors

How do we let others know of this centers exact address? It's not listed on the government site. How do we site the source or is it not needed?--Gaoshan 07:57, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name change in 1930?

In the history section of the article, I think that there might be a factual inaccuracy:

The city reverted to Chinese rule in 1922, under control of the Kuomintang (the ROC). Renamed Qingdao in 1930, the city became a special administrative zone of the ROC Government. Japan re-occupied Qingdao in 1938 with its plans of territorial expansion onto China's coast. After World War II the KMT allowed Qingdao to serve as the headquarters of the Western Pacific Fleet of the US Navy. On 2nd June, 1949, the CCP-led Red Army entered Qingdao and the city and province have been under PRC control since that time.

I don't think that the city was renamed to Qingdao as early as 1930; Qingdao is Hanyu Pinyin, and I believe that there are no other romanization of Chinese place name make use of the alphabet "Q" apart from Hanyu Pinyin. Any comments? --Joshua Chiew 15:14, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Based on Image:ROC Administrative and Claims.jpg and the Chinese Wikipedia, Qingdao was a direct-controlled municipality under the ROC government. I will make changes in the article to reflect this. --Joshua Chiew 16:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Picture is too big

The picture of the cathedral needs to be made smaller (ie fewer bytes, not just fewer pixels). m.e. 02:21, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the cathedral picture is reasonable. If anything, the Taoist monastery picture is the one with a fair few pixels. Australian Matt (talk) 11:49, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Qingdao Travel and Living Guide and redSTAR Online Community

  • Due to heavy cross-wiki spamming, these links and related links have been blacklisted at meta

I agree that the QTLG is actually a valuable source of information which would help, and not hinder those who wish to find out more about Qingdao. The same is true of redSTAR. Both these websites have existed for several years, providing essential information about the city, and providing a forum for residents to meet and communicate. I don't believe that a link to either of these sites breaks the Wikipedia guidelines regarding spam; these are both genuinely useful sources of information. I would appreciate it if both sites were allowed to provide a link in the External Links section. I think it's completely unfair that the QTLG link was removed recently; I think it's equally unfair that the redSTAR link was removed beforehand. I also think that the 'random IP address' which has continually removed any links provided to the redSTAR website should be investigated. Just to make things perfectly clear, I am an employee of redSTAR Times Media. We provide a free English Language magazine/living guide in Qingdao, and have done so for four years. The magazine is now approved by the local Government, and is the Official English Language Guide for the city. Our website contains living and travel information, and an online forum for Qingdao residents. The website is down currently as we make some essential updates, but will be online again soon. Please respond to me asap regarding this issue. Rory luolei 07:43, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


In response to my own query, I have taken a closer look at the Wikipedia guidelines regarding external links and spam, and I have a better understanding now of why this issue has been so controversial. I still hope that any external editors take into account how useful both sites discussed are for those interested in or resident in Qingdao; however, I respect any decision that is made, and will not attempt to add any further links myself. However, I would like to complain about some of the editing on this discussion page: why have there been several unsigned posts made with no option to edit them? And why are there several links to QTLG on this discussion page? Rory luolei 08:20, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

"Useful" is subjective and is not in itself a good criteria for adding a link. OhNoitsJamie Talk 17:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair point, 'useful' is subjective. I've made my case for why I think my company's website should be allowed; like I say, I'm not going to keep adding a link here if the consensus is that such links are spam. Rory luolei 02:14, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

CLinks added by accounts solely established for that purpose are likely to be poorly received by regular editors. Both times I have followed this link it has simply displayed "404 - Not Found". It might be better received at http://wikitravel.org/en/Qingdao. William Avery 06:59, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Further additions to Qingdao wiki will logged for copyright infringements !
To be specific: Qingdao Beer Festival and other related Qingdao events; It's NOT proper to take original info and rewrite it in "wiki format" without the the original source. ~comments welcome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.3.11.76 (talk) 21:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Paraphrasing content does not violate any copyrights. If there is material that has been lifted directly from a copyrighted source, please specify the content in question. And no, we're not going to un-blacklist your spam sites. OhNoitsJamie Talk 22:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
"Paraphrasing content" is NOT original content. It's a shame to see that you promote this kind of behavior. Again to be specific: the prices of the 2008 Beer Festival were directly lifted from "Qingdao China Guide" ! Those were the prices of the 2007 beer fest (which should be the same for 2008)--TBA! "Qingdao China Guide" releases the information as it is made available to Qingdao Citzens via local news; Since we are locals, we are aware of information much earlier than ALL western media. So why not credit the original English source? Regarding the beer festival, it is obvious that the oringinal author wanted to cite the source of the information gatherd.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.3.11.76 (talk) 22:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
To Be More Direct. From your own WIKI logs it's obvious that the author of the beer fest articial used "Qingdao China Guide" to ascertain the exact dates of the 2008 beer fest! Further reserch indicates that "Qingdao China Guide" was the first to publish these dates in English. ~ comments always welcome. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.3.11.76 (talk) 23:13, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
If you think referencing prices is a copyright violation, you obviously don't know much about copyright law. OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
At the very least, un-cited use of numerical data such as (dates, times, prices, etc.) is considered Plagiarism. Plagiarism is not ethical and should not be promoted under any circumstances. Besides it’s just not cool to steel some ones work with out giving them credit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.209.129.65 (talk) 13:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Good luck pursuing that case. OhNoitsJamie Talk 14:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Let's Get Real

The controversy lies over the definition of "Link Spam".

WIKI is definately trying to be a factual source of information and as such should be commended. WIKI's inherent problem lies in the bais of its own users as well as administrators. As you all know, this has been well documented thourgh out the web.

It's easy to find or even generate a second source of info on the web! For instance, in the preceding case the autor of the beer festival wanted to cite the original source of information but was not permited to due so because of bais that started long ago. Thus, the author was forced to find a second source of information that post-dated the original information.

The Plagiarism of information is considered a breach of journalistic ethics[1]. "Qingdao China Guide" has cited wiki media in several articals that precede this controversy and consistently tries to cite its souces of information gathered from external media.

Will Plagiarism be WIKI's downfall?
Here's the reality. You don't understand what plagiarism is; do you honestly think that dates of an international beer festival are secrets that only your site documents? Furthermore, your spam site will remain blacklisted. OhNoitsJamie Talk 19:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Paraphrasing Content (this is much bigger than WIKI's feeble beer fest article) Most ALL of WIKI's content was gathered from other sources. Unfortunatly, I do understand what plagiarism is; if many of WIKI's articles were submitted under academic review they would fall short due to lack of citations. It's obvious that "Qingdao China Guide" is the defacto English source of Events, Attractions, Etc. in Qingdao. You seem to advocate "Paraphrasing Content" without sourcing the author. Your attacks regarding "Qingdao China Guide" as a "spam site" as well as my lack of knowledge do not impress anyone. I have refrained from asking this question, but you seem to press the issue. Do you have a post graduate degree? If so, you would know what plagiarism is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.3.11.76 (talk) 20:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
If you have proof of copyright violations, feel free to post that proof. Otherwise, I see no point in making further comments on this matter. OhNoitsJamie Talk 20:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Are you aware of this citation to ThatsQingdao.com made by China Daily?
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-08/09/content_660970.htm
What is this 2006 article supposed to illustrate? I don't see references to any of the various blacklisted names of your website in that article. OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:51, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Now you are wasting my time. First, you should read the entire article! Second, That's Qingdao = ThatsQingdao.com = QingdaoChinaGuide.com = QingdaoOfficialGuide.com ! Third, China Daily is the largest newspaper in China. So how can you continue to characterize these sites as spam? It is apparent that your decisions were subjective and not thoroughly thought out. These sites are credible encyclopedic details of specific events, attraction, and local news in Qingdao. Last, I have considered this issue CLOSED. You have wasted too much of my time since I'm only a contributor to these sites as well as to local publications. Good Luck.
Oh, I see. There's a single quote from one of your writers in the article. What does that prove? However, I think it's wonderful that you think the matter's closed, because I think it's closed as well. Glad we can agree on something. I won't be participating in further discussions on this matter unless it's to remind any new editors you try to drag into this about your track history of spam and subsequently well-documented blacklisting case. OhNoitsJamie Talk 01:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Cool, thanks. You give me too much credit. I'm just a traveler and have contributed to only a few articles on the above sites as well as to myRedSTAR (and it's affiliated sites). Just wanted to voice my opinion. Let's meet in Madrid for a beer. Cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.58.75.42 (talk) 02:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)