Talk:Qamata

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[edit] Um...

It would be "Thixo", not "Tixo". I'm tempted to say that this article is a whole bunch of crap especially since the source is an 1886 text entitled Kaffir folklore. These claims of African polytheism are typical late 19th and early 20th century European myths. Could you possibly get your hands on a (much) more contemporary source? No person takes 1800s European accounts of Africans seriously. The 1911 Uncyclopaedia Britannica is also a horribly bad source, btw. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 10:52, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, with a lack of other sources it's a start, though it would help if the source is placed into context. Remember also that more contemporary sources may not be any more 'accurate', as history gets rewritten, especially with the modern influence of Christianity (see the debate over African homosexuality). The wording though does fall into the trap of presenting a timeless, changeless folklore which is never the case. The spelling of Thixo in the article is consistent with 19th century, e.g. amaxosa, and can be spelt in the modern way. The claim of Qamata being the son of Tixo is strange, as the same source claims 'u-Tixo' is another name for Qamata. Greenman 13:21, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

The Iziko Museums of Cape Town has this page. It talks about Qamata but in context with Table Mountain qouted from Credo Mutwa, Zulu Sangoma. If I remember my history (albeit from a white prospective), the migrating Xhosas only reached as far as the Fish River or there about. All the modern sources I can find qoutes Credo Mutwa as source. This myth seems to come from one person only although history was passed down by word of mouth. --Jcw69 14:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Umtata...

The correct spelling of Umtata and other places has been published by the Government, it is now Mthatha, so maybe there are other things we have got wrong in the past. I think the caption of the image of Table mountain is incorrect, the photo was probably taken from Robben Island or Bloubergstrand, Cape Town. Gregorydavid 16:21, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I must be hallucinating, since I was convinced I have replied already ;) I placed the image of Tafelberg, and from the image info page, the creator states that it was taken from the jetty wall. I think its quite possible to be from there — if the image was taken from further back, you'd have to see the jetty wall in the photo. Also, from the perspective it does seem relatively close to the harbour. dewet|✉ 09:28, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
If it was taken from the harbour wall then it must have been from the Duncan Dock northmost wall running east-west with quite a wide angle lense.

Gregorydavid 10:35, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] So (don't ask why I'm continuing here...)

I haven't heard the name before, but "Djobela" would be "Jobela" - millions of literate amaXhosa would agree with me. This Table Mountain myth sounds contemporary, but Mutwa does tend to say a lot of weird stuff. I'm sure we're more likely to get correct info from modern sources (the 1996 Websters is an exception) especially after John Mbiti's ground breaking text was published. I'm not convinced by the cited books credibility. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 17:10, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm no expert on this. But with the opening up of South African society, lots of interesting and valuable information seems to be coming to the fore, such as Arabic Afrikaans. Certainly, this type of article can do with input from more modern sources as well. And I think I'll refer to Mutwa as the source of the Table Mountain legend in the article itself. Regards, Elf-friend 08:12, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Also see Talk:Table Mountain. The Qamata legend appeared on the Table Mountain page but was removed - the removal seems a bit harsh to me. Zaian 06:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is this article redeemable?

After a year, I decided to go in and at least correct the obviously outdated orthography.


I'm still fairly sure that more than 50% of the info here is simply very incorrect and Wikipedia might be better off if this was radically revised or simply deleted (to increase the signal-to-noise ratio).


I simply fail to understand how anyone could use an 19th Century text written by an outsider (in outdated orthography) about people who are still alive and well today and not realise that the article might therefore have some serious problems.


"Qamata is the son of Thixo" alone sounds very suspect. Though I am not umXhosa and I am not at all acquainted with their traditional religious beliefs, as far as I'm aware uThixo and uQamata are different names for the same entity.


Tebello TheWHO!!?? 13:40, 8 May 2007 (UTC)