Talk:Pytheas
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[edit] Some other views
from article, left by User:62.242.195.178. Should be checked for accuracy and incorporated if necessary. —Charles P. (Mirv) 06:00, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Rather than editing wholesale the above I would like to give a slightly different and less certain story line. First and foremost we do not know exactly when Pytheas lived. The later 4th Century BC is for certain but 380-310 BC is only a guess based on nothing at all. There is no certainty about Pytheas discovering the midnight sun, polar ice or the aurora. He certainly discovered the British Isles, and commented on the tides, although we do not know whether this was in Iberia (Spain) or the British Isles. Apart from About the Ocean he seems to have made another work, Periodos ghs, About the Earth. The quote from Strabo above is somewhat less strange than it seems at first. It rather refers to the appearance of the sea as a lung, breathing, a concept well known in Greek science from the 6th Century BC. It is possibly but not necessarily about the Polar Sea. In many respects, especially the general context of Pytheas' journey, it would fit better with the tidal waters on the Dutch, German and Danish coasts known as the Wattensee. The land described as agricultural is in "the chilly zone", not necessarily Thule. Actuially the description and especially the mentioned plants fit better with northwestern Jutland. Abalus is also probably not Helgoland but somewhere in northwestern Denmark. That he visited the Baltic has interestingly become more likely lately. Danish researchers have dated a meteoritic crater to 400/370 BC, placed on Saaremaa. This may be the place where the sun went to bed according to Pytheas.
- According to a theory first proposed by Lennart Meri, it is possible that Saaremaa was the legendary Ultima Thule, first mentioned by ancient Greek geographer Pytheas, whereas the name "Thule" could have been connected to the Estonian language word tule ("(of) fire") and the old folk poetry of Estonia, which depicts the birth of the crater lake in Kaali, Saaremaa. Cheers,--3 Löwi 20:04, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The problem with the "Wikipedia" article
Hi, people. By now everyone interested in Pytheas has seen the problem. It is a good article, no doubt. But, it is far from being the last word on Pytheas and his voyage of exploration; moreover, it represents only one point of view. The trouble is, it is copied from the Internet with permission. As soon as anyone edits it, it is not the same article and the same permissions may not apply. But, how can anyone make it better or add to it or provide ancient sources or do anything at all without editing it? That's the problem. We read that Pytheas probably didn't enter the Baltic. He probably did. We get some minimal identifications of lands he encountered, one of which is Helgoland. Others views are possible and there are other identifications to be made. As for Thule, its location has been batted about for quite a long time with no resolution.
In summary this article is like those in the Encyclopedia Britannica, it represents one point of view and can't be changed. It doesn't seem to me that is Wikipedia-like. First we quote an article entire and then we link to it.
Anyway, there is it. Anyone got any thoughts or suggestions? As it stands now, I'd have to put Pytheas material in other articles.Dave 16:39, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- No, you are wrong, if the author agrees to putting it here, he also agrees to use under gfdl - so just go ahead and change away --Echosmoke 01:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] British Isles
The article states: He is quoted as referring to the British Isles as the "Isles of the Pretani." There's some confusion at Talk:British Isles over the origin of that term, and whether it always included Ireland. Nobody has been able to supply a reference for Pytheas' coining (or alleged coining) of the term. As far as I can see, he is supposed to have referred to Ireland separately, and that otherwise he's referring, at most, to the islands inhabited by the Pretani. I suspect a form of begging the question is at play here. Anyone like to step up?
- Regardless, the term used makes it pretty clear that his tin land was some part or the whole of the British Isles, not Spain. And that again shifts the balance of evidence to him taking the land way to NW France, not the sea way. One cannot know for sure, but it agrees with the apparent lack of data ion Iberia gained from Pythias (Iberia would have been economically about as interesting to visit as the British Isles given the original task he set out with). 213.196.198.188 (talk) 01:23, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Nice article, by the way. Could do with illustrations. I don't really see the difficulties over editing caused by the with-permission use of original material from another website.--Shtove 16:00, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Tin
Tin was probably obtained from Devon as well as Cornwall, as in Medieval times. There is evidence of tin trading from Mount Batten near Plymouth, Devon in early times. David horsey 16:18, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Citing
Anything we know is claims of pytheas and claims of others about pytheas. As such only they should be portrayed unless its circumstancial, then we should use "it is therefore plausible to assume..." and such. Anything else is POV! --Echosmoke 01:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sources
The article says Original material copied from this page (with permission) -- and the page is a computer student's personal website, so not a reliable source for the content or as an external link. There are paragraphs like: "Pytheas was not the first person to sail up into the North Sea territories and around Great Britain. Trade between Gaul and Great Britain was routine; fishermen and others would travel to Orkney, Norway or Shetland. The Roman Avienus writing in the 4th century mentions an early Greek voyage, possibly from the 6th century BC. A recent conjectural reconstruction of the journey Pytheas documented has him traveling from Marseille in succession to Bordeaux, Nantes, Land's End, Plymouth, the Isle of Man, Outer Hebrides, Orkney, Iceland, Great Britain's east coast, Kent, Helgoland, returning finally to Marseille." Who else sailed around Britain? Source? Source for the conjectural reconstruction? Further down, sources for speculation on Thule? Pancake Ice? Who are the 'some historians' mentioned? I suspect the books and articles have answers to most of these questions. :-) Meanwhile, shouldn't it have some tags?Doug Weller (talk) 19:16, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
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- I'm not sure. Until it's fixed, I think a warning that the accuracy of an article is disputed is appropriate and could be seen as an almost necessary service for readers. A fast fix means just deletion of the offending parts if you don't immediately have access to resources to improve it otherwise.Doug Weller (talk) 14:36, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
