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Contents 1 Ankhet 2 Commercial Licenses 3 Sources 3.1 E-mail with Tim 3.2 Timothy Campbell Comments

[edit] Ankhet

I propose a new section or a new article on Ankhet as it is growing and if pyroto deserves a page I'd say so does Ankhet. --81.97.195.36 09:22, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Done! --Arkracer 09:42, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Commercial Licenses

Is there a source that can verify commercial licences for pyroto are still being sold? Are there websites using the software? If so, I'll help expand this article. --Measure 23:24, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Contact support@pyroto.info, based on the website.

Ok, www.pyroto.info still says "Pyroto Mountain is available at www.PyrotoMountain.com" which also appears to be dead, meaning Pyroto.info looks just as dead as the other sites. --Measure 00:22, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Also, I would send an email to try to see if anything was alive over there, but I'm pretty sure that would violate WP:NOR. I certainly wouldn't be able to include anything from an email response in this article. --Measure 00:26, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm hoping that someone might contribute something, so I've de-prodded the article. I suggest we give it some time and then if someone wants to take it to AfD, maybe that will be the way to go. But I think PM was notable enough in its day that it would be better to document it here. Also, I wold like to add a stub template, but I'm not sure which; suggestions welcome. · rodii · 16:16, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I was a fan of Pyroto in it's day, but I get the feeling it was not a well-known website outside of itself and -perhaps- the Straight Dope message boards. In any case, I don't see where pyroto qualifies as notable under WP:WEB. I proded it because I was looking at my first edit ever. It was to this page, and it was still listed as (top) several months later.

I would love to see this article expanded, but I don't think there's any documented evidence to find, outside of a few ancient fansites. I'll probably add an appropriate stub to it eventually, but I fully expect to see no contributions to this article for another months-to-years long stretch if it does stay around.

On an additional note, I did email the above address and got a token response, but after I sent a reply telling them that I was doing research for Wikipedia, and looking for more info about Pyroto, I recieved no futher emails. --Measure 17:59, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Several people have emailed the address on their current web page (and the web page seems to be maintained, as it changes some tiny bit every few months), but none have received replies. If people were -actually- licensing it commercially, you'd think there'd be another one for the public. On the other hand, you could try out ankhet.com.

As well, the original BBS software is still out there on the Internet, and can be run. Pretty sure that it's impossible to actually buy a license for it anymore, so those who had licenses back in the day might find that interesting.

I'd love it if there were a page on Ankhet - a spiritual successor to Pyroto. --81.97.195.36 21:32, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

Do we have sources for any of the new claims in this article? I even see a self-reference now? I can't understand why that's in there, or I'd take it out immediately myself. --Measure 00:29, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Oooh... Yeah, just fitting in there...

There are many mountain websites which still exist - these could be used for sources. I have put one in already. --81.97.195.36 09:22, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

What claims need addressed? I am one such person who purchased a commercial license / source code in the 80s and ran and sold a version of the software called Land of the Neverest Mountain that was running in Indianapolis, IN. I could answer some questions about the original game/door but lost track of the original author in the early 90s when he started spending more time in the political arena in Quebec. I did play on the web version for a short period of time in the late 90s but was sidetracked by other endeavors and it appears the site is down now.

The probelm is that there are no sources for anything in the article. I played the game, you bought the game, but that information is technically unusable due to Wikipedia:No original research. And as I've said above, I don't think Pyroto is even really notable enough to justify an article, especially because the game no longer exists an any form on the internet. Also, even when it did exist, it was never very popular. --Measure 23:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The overall popularity of Pyroto is hard to judge. In some cities (local dial-up, remember), like Montreal, it was very popular. It has a joined a lot of "dark history" of the BBS era which was forgotten once the Internet (with its historical continuity) gained dominance—and the winners write the history books. For sources, check BBS: The Documentary. I know that Tim Campbell (the author) was interviewed quite a bit, but I don't know how much of it made it into the final result.

I'm a friend of Tim's and participated in the original Pyroto Mountain BBS, and my name (Ron Sharp) might be mentioned in the original BBS docs, but I don't know if that makes me citable as a reliable source in any way. AndroidCat 15:52, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I think there's a couple of misunderstandings about OR and REF here. Long and short, I think the article is pretty good as is. "original research" should only be applied to problems. It is not, by itself, a problem. This seems to confuse anyone, so I'll give you an example:

"I saw the sun rise in the west" is an example where OR would be applied.

That's not because of the "I", it's because of the "sun rise in the west". That is, the statement itself is ridiculous, and the support is OR.

"I saw the sun rise in the east" is perfectly OK.

That's because there is nothing of interest in this statement. We all see the sun rise in the east, so the statement is non-contentious, so no reference is needed. OR is a tool to weed out bad references, not bad statements. Other rules cover the statements themselves. To understand why this can be a useful tool, consider an article about alien visitations. It seems there are a number of people who believe they have been abducted by aliens, and will claim that they really happen as a result. OR is in place to cut these sorts of references out when you get into the "my reference is better than your reference" arguments. In light of this, I think it's important to study the actual statements in the article, and whether or not some of those are contentious and need references. From what I can see, the vast majority can be trivially referenced from the actual game manual, which is listed in the external links. I think we can consider that as a "golden source", and promote it to a ref. That leaves only a few statements that are not immediately referenced, namely the game history starting in Quebec (the manual says Vermont) and its later conversion to the web. Neither of these statements strikes me as particularly contentious, but a little history digging here would certainly be useful. I would only recommend removing the statements if it seems no source will be possible, and I find that difficult to believe in this case. Maury (talk) 21:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] E-mail with Tim

I managed to find Tim "out there" and had an e-mail exchange with him in order to get more details for this article. He has agreed (and actually expected) it to be used as a reference in this article. I'm going to drop him a note to look over the changes and take it from there. Maury (talk) 19:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Timothy Campbell Comments

I've had a look at the article as it currently stands, and wrote to Maury suggested one minor change in wording. However, it does seem to cover the bases well. Timothy Campbell (talk) 21:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)