Talk:Pyrohiv

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An entry from Pyrohiv appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 2 October 2006.

...that a recent fire in the open air Museum of Folk Architecture and Life of Ukraine (traditional Ukranian church pictured) was caused by an arson, set to cover up the theft of a valuable collection of the eighteenth-century cassones exhibited in the burned building?

[edit] DYK

Good work. Submitting to DYK? —Michael Z. 2006-09-29 15:38 Z

Submitted. And thanks for copyedit! --Irpen 16:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dumplings

Should the article mention that the name means 'perogies' (gen.)? —Michael Z. 2006-09-29 16:22 Z

That would be Pyrohy. Likely the origin indeed but I did not find this mentioned anywhere. Will look. --Irpen 16:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Oops; should have linked genitive case, literally "of perogies" or "some perogies". —Michael Z. 2006-09-29 16:54 Z

However, we need to find a source that would state the etymology of the village's name. I did not find anything on it but there must be something out there. --Irpen 17:20, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

How about this? —Michael Z. 2006-09-29 17:34 Z

Although the origin of the toponym is uncertain, pyrohiv is a Ukrainian word meaning a kind of stuffed dumpling: 'perogies' (gen. pl.).

Sounds good to me. Please add it and give a thought to Demesne as well. --Irpen 17:46, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I think I found a good solution using a redirect: the modern word domain stems from demesne. —Michael Z. 2006-09-29 19:02 Z

Guys, what are 'perogies'? That's neither 'pierogies', nor 'pyrohy'.--tufkaa 19:57, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Besides, IMO the closest Ukrainian thing to Pierogies is Varenyky, while "Пироги" and "пиріжки" (pyrohy and pyrizhku) are different dishes, both from varenyky and from each other. I think someone will come up with more definitive info. --Irpen 20:05, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Perogy is a headword in my Canadian Oxford Dictionary, listed as a N. Amer. word, and pirogi, pierogi, pyrohy and a few others are listed as variants of it (and all of their entries simply refer to perogy). The etymology cites the Polish and Ukrainian words.

Where I come from, the word is well-known by anglophones, and is much more commonly used than the other spellings. So much so that a few Chinese restaurants describe their pot-stickers as "Chinese perogies" on their menu. —Michael Z. 2006-09-29 20:26 Z

Would someone please explain the difference between pyrohy and varenyky to me? I have read both articles, and I'm really none the wiser. All I know is that pyrih is also a generic word for stuffed dumplings or pastries (I've even heard it used for pie). —Michael Z. 2006-09-29 20:32 Z

Varenyky is dumpling while Pyrohy and Pyrizhky is pastry. See eg. here. --Irpen 20:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah! My mother, from Lviv, usually calls things like that pliatsok or perekladanets’, and we often say pyrohy for varenyky. Prairie Canadians know pyrizhky too, but they're not as familiar as "perogies" (meaning varenyky). —Michael Z. 2006-09-29 20:49 Z

Well, there are differences in Ukrainian regional speak and Galicia and Dnieper Ukraine have much different histories that reflected on the languages. But i would assume that the Pyrohiv has more to do with pastry than with dumplings. For instance in this folk song about "І з сиром пироги" is about pastry, I am sure :). --Irpen 20:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

And I always assumed that one was about ~~perogies~~, excuse me, varenyky with cottage cheese. —Michael Z. 2006-09-29 20:58 Z

There is definitely a need for an article on pyrih. —Michael Z. 2006-09-29 21:00 Z

I think we should just add a redirect and more info to a pie. But as for пирожок/пиріжок, I am not familiar with any English word that would adequately translate it. --Irpen

[edit] Museum in Google maps

From looking at Google's satellite map, I think the actual museum is at 50.354538° N 30.51223° E (google maps link—you can zoom in further). The entrance appears to be at the west end. In the open space to the east, you can recognize the four windmills by their shadows, and apparently some market stalls on the path adjacent to them. Any idea what the linear blue-grey structure on the other side of the path is? —Michael Z. 2006-10-03 03:08 Z

Got your question but don't know the answer. But an excellent pick with a better sattelite image, Michael! Please relink. --Irpen 03:42, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I relinked; previous coordinates are saved here, in case they are significant: 50°20′30″N, 30°31′54″E.

I assume that's the village of Pyrohiv to the south-east, between the museum and the highway. Perhaps the village and museum warrant separate articles. —Michael Z. 2006-10-03 04:05 Z

No objection to a separate village article from me. The village also has a notable motorbyke treck. One more thing. There is an eponemous village in UA[1] in Tyvrivskyi Raion, Vinnytsya Oblast. Must be connected to Nikolay Ivanovich Pirogov who retired in his family estate in that area. --Irpen 04:21, 3 October 2006 (UTC)