Talk:Punjabi language

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[edit] Dominant Language in Pakistan

Only cities in pakistan where proper punjabi language is spoken are lahore, shekhupura , Gujranwala, Sialkot , Gujrat, Kasoor, Okara, Sahiwal , Faisalabad. Then there are cities where proper punjabi is spoken partially they include mandi bahudin, Hafizabad pakpattan , Khanewal ,toba tek sing and bahawalnagar. This makes only 50 percent of pakistani punjab. The rest of pakistani punjab speaks different forms of jangli, siraiki ,pothohari and hindko lanuages which in pakistani punjab are considered quite distinct languages. The reason is we proper punjabi speakers of pakistani punjab are more or less unable to communicate with them in punjabi since we cannot understand jangli,siraiki ,pothohari and hindko. I say this because I live in gujranwala pakistan and I have travelled to multan where siraiki is spoken and rawalpindi where pothohari is spoken and from my experience I can tell you it is impossible for us to understand them properly in their language. As a result we use URDU lanuage which is the lingua franca of pakistan to communicate with siraiki, pothohari speaking people of pakistani punjab. URDU is also used by punjabis to communicate with the pakhtuns, sindis , balochis and the people of northern Pakistan. I consider Urdu as a blessing of God for pakistani people since all pakistanis can communicate with one another using Urdu.

Hence the bottom line is URDU is the lingua franca of pakistan and is the dominant language of pakistan for multiple reasons.

Muhammad Usman Gujranwala Pakistani Punjab

Punjabi is very widely spoken but not as widely as Urdu. We in Pakistan communicate with each other in Urdu. I am a Punjabi and I live in Rawalpindi, I can understand Siraiki, potohari, jangli, hindko with no trouble whatsoever. And I speak for many people. All these dialects have the same script, same grammar and same word order. My Urdu speaking relatives from Karachi who have lesser exposure to Punjabi can also understand all these dialects with a little difficulty. These are only different dialects and can no way be termed as distinct languages.

Adil

137.205.108.16 (talk) 23:20, 24 January 2008 (UTC)





Punjabi is the dominant language in Pakistan? I would have sworn Urdu was!
And that's the controversy. Opinions differ widely, and I know very little about this - that's why I restricted myself to copyediting and reference-finding here.
A number of web-based sources complain bitterly about Punjabi being
  • widely spoken
  • not the official language
However, they are visibly campaigning websites on one side of this argument. We need someone with local knowledge to clue us in. -- The Anome
Ah! This looks like a good reference: http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Pakistan -- The Anome
It depends on what is meant by "dominant language". Punjabi is a dominant language in Pakistan in that it is spoken by majority of people as their mother language. It is not a "dominant language" in the sense that it does not have any official recognition. The media is based on Urdu and the government conducts all its activity in Urdu. Punjabi in Pakistan is sort of like a huge giant that nobody likes and would like to ignore. However it is too big and important to ignore.
I hope the (mini-)article now looks better - time for real experts to have a hack at it. -- The Anome
No urdu is only spoken my un-patroitic immigrants called Muhajirs who are tearing the city of karachi apart through the medium of the MQM :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aarandir (talk • contribs) .

THIS IS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE PAKISTANIS MAKE. PUNJABI WHICH MANY CALL PUNJABI IN PAKISTAN IS ACTUALLY LAHORI OR MAJHAILI, A DIALECT OF PUNJABI CONSIDERED TO BE THE STANDARD PUNJABI AS IT HAS BEEN INFLUENCED BY ALL OTHER DIALECTS I.E DOABI, SERAIKI, MALWAI, PAHARI, MIRPURI, JANGLI AND POTHOHARI BEING CENTRALLY LOCATED IN THE CENTRAL REGION OF PUNJAB THAT IS LAHORE, KASUR, AMRITSAR, GURDASPUR, GUJRANWALA, SHEIKHUPURA ETC.. PUNJABI IS THE COMBINATION OF ALL DIALECTS OF PUNJAB REGION. SERAIKI AND HINDKO MAYBE ASSERITING LINGUISTIC STATUS AS OPPOSED TO BEING PUNJABI DIALECTS FOR POLITICAL REASONS, BUT HISTORICALLY THEY FORM OUTER PUNJBAI DIALECTS(FOR EXAMPLE THE WORD HINDKO IS GIVEN BY PUSHTO SPEAKERS TO THE FIRST INDO-ARYAN LANGUAGE THAT NEIGHBOURS THEM, OR ACTUALLY ITS PRETTY MUCH THE AREA THEY OCCUPIED FROM HINDKOWANS WHO ARE THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE OF PESHAWAR VALLEY AND AREA TO THE EAST AND SOUTH). SERAIKI DID NOT EVEN EXIST AS A WORD IN PUNJAB BEFORE THE 70'S, IT IS ACTUALLY A SINDHI WORD MEANING 'NORTHERN' WHICH WAS USED FOR CENTURIES FOR THE DIALECT OF NORTHERN SINDHI WHICH IS VERY CLOSE TO THE TRANSITIONAL DIALECTS OF SOUTHERN PUNJABI. THE CORRECT WORD FOR SOUTHERN DIALECTS OF PUNJAB IS LAHNDA OR MULTANI. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.76.44 (talk) 03:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Too Focused on Pakistan

Too focused on Pakistan... should stress the very interesting, powerful and dynamic cultural bleeding over between the Punjab area of India and the Punjabis of Pakistan. Emphasize Punjabi as the language of a culture that truly transcends nationality. Speak MUCH MORE about the HUGE suppression of the Punjabi culture in Pakistan by giving no official status to a majority language and forcing a different culture on them. Interesting parallel is how Pakistan attempted to do the same thing in East Pakistan (now known as Bangladesh) with the Bengali language of the Bengali culture. Difference between Indian and Pakistani Punjabi dialects as a result of India using a Sanskrit-based script and Pakistan using an Arabic script. How does religion affect the language, with most Pakistani Punjabis being Muslim and most Indian Punjabis being Sikh and Hindu?

[edit] Punjabi External links

I have only looked at a few of the external links and I must say that some of them are extermely useful. What needs to be understood is that Punjabi is more or less that same when spoken but that it can be written in various scripts - ie Urdu, Gurmukhi, Devanagari, even English - samjah! And not all punjabi speaking folks can read all the different scripts. I would like to see a star system against the external links so we can vote for these sites - ?? 5 star = excellent 1 star poor, etc. Many Thanks for listening Hari Singh

Hi, I'm from Indonesia and I have read a lot about Punjabi language, and I would like to write it in Indonesian Wikipedia for Indonesian readers, and surely in Bahasa Indonesia. What do you think?

user:kolomonggo

[edit] Tonal language?

This article is in Category:Tonal languages; does that mean that Punjabi is a tonal language akin to Chinese and Cantonese (that individual words have a tonal component that carries lexical information)? That would certainly differentiate it from most other Indo-European languages. There's no mention of tonality in the article itself. Can someone confirm or refute this idea? --skoosh (háblame) 16:08, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Never mind; I just noticed that it's mentioned in the Tone (linguistics) article. --skoosh (háblame) 16:19, 14 September 2005 (UTC)


May be indian punjabi is tonal since punjabi dialects spoken in Pakistan are absolutely not tonal.

[edit] Changes by Harprit

Harprit, I have reverted your edits because:

  • They are messing up the placement of the image.
  • You're linking to Punjabi in the Punjabi article!
  • Urdu is contained within the term Hindustani.

Also, when reverting ensure that you don't revert constructive changes by other users, such as language interwiki links and other links. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 11:28, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Punjabi loanwords

Does anyone have any reliable statistics as to what percentage of loan words come from "Hindu-Urdu", Persian and English? It'll help clear up the article... Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 18:03, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

As far as I know, such a compilation is never done. Over the centuries, invaders accessed Delhi through punjab and racked it severely. In this process the invaders brought their languages and cultures which influenced punjab and punjabi. To date I have identified influences of chinese, greek, persian, arabic, sanskrit and perhapes some portugese also. It is a real great work to do.Akch 12:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)Akch

[edit] Suggested Additions/Changes

Need more information on Punjabi in Pakistan (e.g. distribution, literacy, conflict with Urdu). Also need further information on related languages and some sample phrases. More details on dialects and distribution of speakers around Greater Punjab. Also talk of modern Punjabi use in the diaspora and in music. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 12:03, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Translation

Can someone look at the entry on Talk:Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom regarding the chant by Mota Ram? I think a great addition to the article would be some trivia on what he was actually saying. I've heard he was speaking Punjab, but maybe its another type of India language. -Husnock 23:08, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

It's very likely he was probably speaking Hindi. Hindi is similar to Punjabi, but not the same ;) Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 23:27, 11 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Is there such a language called "Punjabi Mirpuri"

According to this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pothohari_language. "Mirpuri" belongs to the western pahari group and is called Pothohari. I’m not denying the fact it isn’t related to Punjabi but why do people coin it as 'Punjabi Mirpuri' Why not call Hindko 'Punjabi Hindko' Although it might be related to Punjabi (I'm not sure) but it's still distinct from Punjabi.

Anyone care to elaborate?

P.S. You will find this link very useful after having read this article I realised that there is no such thing as 'Punjabi Mirpuri' Its written By Dalaat Ali who is a Service development manager for NHS trust and social services department.

http://www.krrc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=403&Itemid=106

It is just a localism. Today it is Punjabi Mirpuri and tomorrow it will be Punjabi Bhimbhri and still Punjabi Baghi/Balakoti/sirinagri is to come !Akch 12:32, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

No one speaks punjabi in srinagar. Srinagar is inhabited by koshur speaking people and koshur is a dardic language, no punjabi can understand it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.69.21.80 (talk) 15:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Mirpuri is certainly a transitional dialect of Punjabi, its not a language nor is pahari or pothohari or for that matter hindko or the most recent construct seraiki, they are like majhaili, jangli, kangri, dogri, doabi, powadhi that is they are all dialects of one language called punjabi which we often confuse with Lahori or Majhi which is the standard dialect that is used in the media but NOT the only dialect of Punjabi. Other dialects like Doabi, Malwai etc. maybe closer to the standard lahori being closer to it than mirpuri, hindko or Pothohari, but they are still dialects of Punjabi because the speakers can understand each other if they only know their dialect, they can still speak and understand other dialects because they have the same grammar and structure and over 75% legible to be considered dialects of the same language. If we start splitting the hairs like this there will be no Punjabi language left it will be jangli, seraiki, doabi, majahili, hindko, pothohari etc. but no punjabi. Also, this confusion stems from the fact that linguistic study is relatively unknown in Pakistan and no other language has so many dialects in Pakistan as Punjabi, on the other hand due to partition they can't put in context any more as Hindi has dialects like Khadiboli, Banagaru, Avadhi, Maithili, Bihari, Bundelkhandi which are quite different but still are Hindi dialects there is no such comparison to be made in Pakistan that is why people get confused(and also as opposed to Bengalis theere is a lot regionalism in Punjab and politics destroys language), infact Lahnda and hindko was the original Punjabi, the areas of central punajb were influenced by Hindi dialects being onthe trade route and neigboring Hindi areas that is why the dialect ther is more like Urdu, Lahnda is the purest and oldest form of Punjabi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.76.44 (talk) 03:22, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Inflection

Should be some mention on how it carries inflection, which tends to be a component of many Indo-European languages. I'm mainly curious in where there's inflection and where there isn't, or if it's dropped entirely. Elle vécut heureuse à jamais (Be eudaimonic!) 01:41, 3 July 2006 (UTC) Multani and Bahawalpuri are not punjabi language's dialects .These are dialects of Siraiki language and Siraiki is an independet languageRasoolpuri 02:56, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

It is very interesting when people just under the infulece of political and localism deny the established facts and do not accept the truth because it does not suit them. Same is happening with Siraiki and the siraiki people. Whereas the fact is that siraiki is a dialact which Lahndi used to speak not very long ago. Akch 12:28, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Siraiki in pakistan is considered an independent language. Siraiki is closely related to punjabi but you can say other way round also. Actually punjabi is a mixture of siraiki and hindi.Cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.58.115.25 (talk) 16:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


'considered' doesnot a language make. If it is a language why did the word Seraiki did not exist in southern Punjab before the 1970's you cannot borrow a Sindhi languge word to make it a separate language. What happened to Lahnda??? the word used for centuries. Seraiki is the northern dialect of Sindhi spoken in norhtern Sindh it has nothing to do with Lahnda. Lahnda speakers just borrowed the name and started using it to further political motives. The whole of linguistic and scholarly world cosiders Lahnda to be oldest form of Punjabi and Lahnda speakers named it after a northern dialect of Sindhi!!! Bizarre are the ways of Pakistani politics. Pretty soon Pothohari will be made a language borrowing a Pashto word for eastern or Kashmiri(kashur) word for western. Everybody is ashamed to be called Punjabi. Lets all get rid of Punjabi. Lahori, Mirpuri, Faisalabadi, Ludhianvi, Patialvi, Pindwi, Multani, Bahawalpuri, Derajati should all be languages and ethnicities. Sindhis, Balochis and Mohajirs will be very happy with the death of Punjabi ethnicity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.76.44 (talk) 03:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] translators needed at Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Translation

Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Translation--D-Boy 19:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] split?

this article appears in contradiction with Indo-Aryan languages and others, which list the Western Punjabi language as without close affiliation to [East] Punjabi. The nature of "Punjabi" as a widely scattered dialect continuum should be made much more clear, and we may need independent articles on Lahndi/Eastern Punjabi and Western Punjabi. This is just what I note from the contradiction between articles, I don't have any deeper knowledge on this. dab (��) 12:26, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A question about the aspirated phonemes

I would like to ask a question about the aspirated phonemes. I am a speaker of Romani language, a Indo-Aryan language used now in Europe and America (due to emigration 1000 years ago). In our language all the old voiced aspirated phonemes turned to voiceless aspirated. For example (I will make comparisons with Hindi, 1st word Romani, 2nd Hindi): kher - ghar, khil - ghee, phen - behen (bhagini), phral - bhai, phuv - bhumi, thuv - dhuan. I read somewhere that there are some Punjabi dialects with the same feature, but there was just a small sentence, without any other details. Does anyone know more about it? It would be great if there would be some on-line sources about this. Usually the researchers of the evolution of the Romani language propose that the shift voiced -> voiceless occured when our ancestors passed through Armenian speaking area. However, it looks possible that this feature was already present when leaving the Subcontinent (the departure was from Punjab - Rajasthan area). Thank you, Desiphral-देसीफ्राल 15:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm under the impression that in Punjabi, voiced aspirated phonemes turn to voiceless unaspirated. Voiced aspirates (a.k.a. "breathy voiced" phonemes) are not very common; in fact, they have minimal pairs with all other types of related phonemes only in some North Indian languages (e.g. Hindi and Bengali).
I think that sound change probably took place very soon after the Romanies' ancestors left the Subcontinent. (I find that inside the Subcontinent, the distinction between voiced/voiceless (un)aspirates is generally recognized in some way, even if it is not actually pronounced.) In Farsi, for example, there are clearly no voiced aspirates (in fact, I think there are only voiceless (un)aspirates, same as English). --Kuaichik 04:47, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Punjabi Dialect {khetrani}

Khetrani is listed as one of the dialects of Punjabi in the table. Khetrani is the language of the Khetran tribe of Balochistan and is only limited to them. Khetrani or Khetranki as called by Khetrans is the sole language of Khetrans. As they are a baloch tribe so it just doesnt add up being a Punjabi dialect. OmerKhetran 14:34, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Hindko is not spoken in the political region of punjab or for that matter mirpuri they are still dialects of Punjabi not Pashto or Kashmiri respectively. DONOT mix linguistics with politics but its hard to separate it in Pakistan isn't it??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.76.44 (talk) 03:39, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] When was Punjabi born?

When did the language start? Any online dictionary?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.41.8.89 (talk) 03:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)