Talk:Punjab (Pakistan)

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How do you spell Rawalpindi in Urdu? Thanks! Vpendse 07:00, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

راولپنڈی --Bhola 04:20, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] This article is a joke

Their is mention of an ancient Pakistan? Dravidians coming from Iran? Who made this profile? 71.107.54.199 09:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Made major changes to article

Hello folks. I made major changes to the article by largely keeping much of the previous information and then expanding it and adding pictures as well. If there are any suggestions and comments I'd be glad to hear them. Thanks. Tombseye 10:24, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Taxila Image in Punjab (Pakistan)

I think that the Taxila image (Taxila Buddha.jpg) would be more appropriate in Punjab region page rather than Punjab (Pakistan) page. I have removed that image from Punjab (Pakistan) page.

Siddiqui 22:16, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

You've mentioned what you want to do, but haven't included the rationale for your decision. Why do you think the photo is not relevant to the Pakistan Punjab page?
Just a side note: When you revert changes, please don't revert constructive edits in between. I had resized all the images on the page so they were consistent. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 22:31, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
The Taxila statue is most relevant to Punjab region page as it is relevant to whole of Punjab than just to Western Punjab. The East and West Punjab should emphasize their own history and Punjab region should have their common history.
Siddiqui 15:14, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
By that reckoning, why not delete all history in the West/East Punjab articles that is related to pre-Partition? Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 15:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and of course, we'd have to remove the Badshahi Masjid picture too then in that case as that was part of pre-Partition history. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 15:45, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I do not know why these hindus and sikhs use this word partition. We people of pakistan do not believe any partition type stuff. For my Forefathers who are from gujranwala distirict never say that there was a partition they say that 1947 when hindus and sikhs left our areas. This helped us to form pakistan the land of pure since the impurity of sikhs and hindus were thrown out of our areas. they say that we never considered hindus or sikhs our brotherhood. We always considered them foreigners in our lands since they have a different culture from us muslims. (Muhammad Usman)

[edit] Changed infobox

There's no point having an infobox if only one article uses it - each province plus Islamabad had their own infobox. So I've replaced the obsolete Template:Punjab-infobox with a generic one for all provinces and territories. Green Giant 01:05, 2 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Middle Eastern influence prior to Islam?

I think it is erroneous to say there was middle eastern influence in the Panjab prior to the coming of Islam. Prior to Islam, the culture of the region was almost wholly South Asian in nature. At most there was indeed significant Central Asian influence from the Sakas, Kushans, Huns and Parthians, as well as some Greek influence via the Indo-Greek kingdom but there was no real Middle Eastern influence prior to Islam. The Persians invaded sure but they did not significantly impose Persian culture on the locals. Hindu/Buddhist culture stayed the norm and the Persians pretty much just ruled. Middle Eastern influence did come with the arrival of Islam but even that was second hand influence, coming to them via the Turks/Afghans who got it from the Arabs a few centuries prior. Apart from Islam, Panjab is very much a South Asian region with significant Central Asian influence, due to it's proximity. At least this is the impression I have from it's history and the culture as I saw it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though? - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.221.1.97 (talk • contribs)

You are absolutely right but why you say the culture of punjab was like south asian culture. Do you mean that culture of punjab was like the dirty culture of Tamil Nadu then you are wrong. The cultural belt of punjab prior to islam was up to Ganges in India and had nothing to do with other areas of south asia. The culture of punjab prior to islam was indo-gangetic.Anything other than that from south asia had nothing to do with culture of punjab prior to islam.

[edit] Sikh History section

Someone has inflated this section considerably. I don't have time to fix it now, but hopefully will do so soon. If not, I'm posting this here to see if anyone else wants to do it :) Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 13:20, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sukh I've compacted the section to a appropriate size.--Sikh scholar 06:50, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey! That's much better, although I still feel it is too long. It has too much weight compared to say the section on the Mughals. It should probably be about a paragraph if possible. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 22:26, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


I disalusioned at the fact that it is destroyed and i intend to fix it —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mandeep 619 (talk • contribs) 03:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
ANd make the devangari is there!--D-Boy 04:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

' == [['hey am dj zeus my name is ab . and i love pakistan . am in doha qater . Italic text''']] =='

[edit] Revision By Siddiqui as of 22:18, 1 January 2007

(edit) (undo) Removing unnecessary categories added by Intothefire

Siddiqui the categories are not unnecessary .The history of the peoples of subcontinent are a rich tapestry of a million strands . The history of people of Arabic extraction from the state of UP in India and Bareily is as factual as the history of Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs from the undivided Punjab before 1947 . The history of the Punjab is a shared legacy of various religious ,social , ethnic and even linguistic groups .This includes Hindus , Sikhs , Buddhist , Jains , Christians , as well as ethnically diverse people . This also includes the ethnically diverse people of the Punjab now settled in two different countries .The history of the India Punjab is similarly the combined legacy of people from different faiths.

Therefore please do not remove categories added .Intothefire 07:08, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The categories that you added were not appropriate to the subject of the article. "Punjab" is not a surname, and neither is it the name of a caste. References to those things should occur in the article itself, in their proper contexts. Then the articles they link to will have the appropriate categories. Otherwise the article will end up with dozens of categories for anything remotely connected to Punjab. ... discospinster talk 13:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Hallo. Why is Punjab importent to Sikhs? I need to know! ::) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.26.50 (talk) 08:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Forced Migrations

There were millions of Hindus and Sikhs that migrated from West Punjab to East Punjab while millions of Muslims migrated to West Punjab from East Punjab. Just adding info about Hindu and Sikh refugees while ignoring Muslim refugees is unacceptable. There were a million people killed of alll three faiths in brutal manner. Just naming victims of one relgion while ignoring others is not neutral point of view. There are millions of Pakistani Punjabis that were forced leave East Punjab in 1947. Indian contributors completely ignore thier miseries. All those suffered were victims regardless of thier faith. Siddiqui 03:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Forced Migrations

Yes Siddiqui I agree with you that "There were a million people killed of alll three faiths in brutal manner. Just naming victims of one relgion while ignoring others is not neutral point of view. There are millions of Pakistani Punjabis that were forced leave East Punjab in 1947." The selective amnesia on either side does not contribute to a neutral point of view .If you had read my post you would have noted that it was carefully worded to avoid this . In any case I have now further highlighted this in my latest post .

While on the subject since you are diligently deleting my posts ...I found your non response to my post on the discussion page of Gakhar Hindus intriguing ...still awaiting to see your response.Intothefire 07:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Indian contributors ignore their miseries? How do you come to that conclusion, I admit the Hindus and Sikhs were out of order in fighting back. It was good Gandhi stopped the riots (at least in India). But they weren't forced to leave by the government, unlike in Pakistan (99% Muslim majority) where numerous Hindus were forced to leave their homeland because the government wouldn't allow them to stay. India became a secular democracy, while Pakistan became an Islamic Republic. That's the difference, India had Gandhi to ensure that the nation would remain secular, and because of that Zaheer Khan, Wasim Jaffer, Mohammed Kaif and Irfan Pathan are contracted by the Indian cricket team. Nobleeagle [TALK] [C] 04:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation file

It would be best it were replaced by a file of an actual Punjabi person saying "Punjab" in a Punjabi sort of way. Tuncrypt 12:31, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

jinny lahor nai waikhea o jammya hi nai mean the person who did not visit lahore did not born yet —Preceding unsigned comment added by Razimian (talk • contribs) 13:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

"An actual Punjabi person saying "Punjab" in a Punjabi sort of way"? What exactly do you mean by that? Statements like that are highly POV/biased. I suppose you would want the article edited by "actual" Punjabi people in a "Punjabi" sort of way? That is not the way Wikipedia works. I suggest you read the guidelines at "Wikipedia is not a dictionary", particularly "We aren't teaching people how to talk like a hacker or a Cockney chimney-sweep". That means it is beside the point whether this pronunciation isn't exactly to everyone's standards as long as it gives a basic idea of the pronunciation. Remember that not everyone reading the article will be Punjabi, so for example a Cockney might pronounce the word somewhat differently from how a Punjabi person might. So, don't keep deleting the pronunciation file from the article unless you can conclusively prove that it is an incorrect pronunciation. In fact if you are such an expert on Punjabi pronunciation, why don't you record an ogg file and upload it so we can hear the difference? Green Giant 18:53, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Demographics

Stop inserting the percentage of Hindus and Sikhs per district. Their is no such list in the Indian Punjab article. The article alrady mentions that their was a population exchange of Hindus/Sikhs, and Muslims. It also mentions that the region "was home to a large indigenous population of Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs unto 1947". IP198 18:45, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I am not disputing the info that you are tyring to insert, but it doesnt make sense to include these numbers in this article. A better idea would be to mention in each of these districts, the Hindu/Sikh percentage in 1941. For example in Attock district you can state that in 1941 Hindus were six percent of the polulation and Sikhs were 3 percent. This info is already mentioned in the article in a summarized form, and the list already exsists in Hinduism in Pakistan. Try reading the Indian Punjab article. It does not give a list of population prior to partition yet mentions that demographics changed during that period. Also do remember that even if something is sourced that does not mean it is automatically going to be inserted into the article. Try being reasonable and going into the individual districts pages, and mention briefly the population in 1941.IP198 19:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Intothefire if your family came from West Punjab, you might feel strongly about including this chart, but you should remember Wikipedia is not a soapbox. IP198 15:13, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

IP198 please be civil and specific .The final aritrator for what should or shouldent be on a page is governed by wikipedia rules . Your deletions are based on your opinion and while the content you are deleting is sourced content .

Cheers
Intothefire 08:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Thats not really a reply, as you said the same thing in your edit summary. Please this Npov#Neutrality_and_verifiability, and Npov#Undue_weight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IP198 (talk • contribs) 12:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LITERACY RATES

"The literacy rate has increased greatly since independence. In 2003, over 53% of the population of the province was estimated to be literate by the Labour Force Survey. [1] What is meant by 'literacy' in this context? For example, is the ability to read Punjabi measured or just in Urdu or English? How is the ability measured? Eog1916 (talk) 11:41, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-Protection

Should this article be semi-protected since theres lots of edits by IPs and not all of them are contributing to the development of this article?--Ãlways Ãhëad 23:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)