Talk:Pug

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	Pug was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result September 3, 2006 Good article nominee Listed June 4, 2007 Good article reassessment Delisted Current Status: Delisted good article

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Contents 1 alternative names 2 Smartness 3 Disease question 4 Bug 5 Mops redirects here? 6 The Order of the Pug 7 Removal of certain images 8 Please fix contradictions 9 Clean up 10 Famous pug fanciers? 11 Good article 12 My edits 13 Ediots 14 Origin of name 15 "Historical" role 16 smartness 17 Todo: 18 admonitions against pug hybrids 19 Shannanigans 20 Delist as GA 21 frank iero 22 Other meanings 23 fatness 24 smartness and c-csections 25 Added Pug picture 26 Pugnus 27 reverse sneezing 28 binomial name

[edit] alternative names

has anyone else ever heard of these alternative names?? I haven't... [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 20:42, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Per New Encyclopedia of the Dog, B. Fogle, 2000. Alternatives names have mostly matched what we've recorded in various places, so I have no reason to doubt it. Elf | Talk

Pagu is Japanese for Pug. Nov 2 2005

I've heard of mops before, several times. --BrownHornet21 17:40, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I believe that Mop comes from the Dutch word "Mopschointje"(Not entirely sure if its spelled right, correct me if I'm wrong) which means Pug.--Rachellala 21:43, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I just did a little searching; this site says: "It is said that Holland was the first European country to see the Pug. It may be that the Dutch East India Company, which thrived on trading all over the Orient and Europe, was the fu3t to bring this wonderful little dog called the Mopshond back." Similarly, this site says "The Pugs that were traded to Europe seem to have first landed in Holland, possibly as a result of the famous trading company, the Dutch East India Company. The Dutch named the breed Mopshond, which is still in use today." I didn't see the other term anywhere; no searches or near misses on the word you mention, which doesn't necessarily mean it's off track, just maybe a couple too many wrong characters? Elf | Talk 22:02, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smartness

Has anyone met a smart pug? I have met lots of pugs, and they have all been characterised by extreme stupidity and greed, which is part of their great charm. User: Brentford 16:45, 22 Nov 2004 I once met a pug that could speak English. Only a few words,like yes, and please...no thank you etc etc. They cannot swear,they suffer from what many scientists call the anti-terrets snyndrome of the dog. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.224.243.81 (talk) 15:46, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I have been in a house with several pugs throughout the last 17 years of my life and i am not blinded by a love for the breed as they are not my dogs, however they are smart. clearly you havent met many and are following stereotypical views like so many fools before you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.149.24 (talk) 10:00, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I think a lot of dogs have undeserved reputations like this based on how people treat them. How many cutesy lap-type dogs do you know who weren't spoiled, undertrained, and overweight? I haven't known many pugs, but I certainly made the acquaintance of one who was a driven, fast-learning agility dog (who unfortunately died young); in the earlier days of agility, there were 3 people in the area competing with pugs and they definitely did above average work. Elf | Talk 23:02, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I knew one pug who was very cute and sweet, and sort of smart. But not exactly smart. Which causes my disbelief in the theory above. (KinseyLOL 21:28, 3 May 2006 (UTC))

I have a bug hes so cute but hess umm kind of dumb and he loves to eat --Caleb09 02:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I have a pug x That is smart but she is Fifteen years old and also mixed with Boston Terrier. She is reasonalbly smart for her age and she is not cenile (Can't remember how to spell word) yet.---The Doctor- "Would you like a Jelly Baby?" 23:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Just watched a television programme about a pug who is a dog agility champion. Far from stupid.

I currently own a pug who is much brighter than any of the golden retrievers I have owned. We have to spell out words around our pug such as hungry, leash, or outside. She also fetches her leash on command, growls on command, sits, stays, fetches a toy by name ect... Pugs really are people pleasers and are very interested in their owners. Does that really make them bright? I don't know, but ours is certainly easy to train and communicate with.--12.206.104.132 03:41, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I had a pug for 15 years who was very smart. I used to watch M*A*S*H every night at 11:00, and walk her when it was over. She would rest peacefully during the opening theme, but would immediately jump up and wait expectantly as soon as she heard the closing theme (most people probably don't know the difference between the two!). She mastered quite a number of voice commands and hand signals, heeled perfectly, and was quite an exceptional animal. So, I can't speak for all of them, but this one was very smart. For a dog, that is. I now have a black lab. Wonderful dog, but not smart. The pug wins, paws down.

Pugs are very "intelligent" dogs. The problem is that most people are too lazy/buzy/whatever to properly train them. After just two months, my three year old pug went from being "dumb" to being fully off-leash trained, understanding about 20 new commands perfectly. Logrolls (talk) 18:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

My pug is one of the smartest of the many dogs I have owned over the last 40 years.PatrickWB (talk) 05:46, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disease question

My girlfriend took her pug to the vet the other week because of dermathitis and the vet commented that the dog was somewhat wobbly rearwards. She said it's a common condition among pugs. Something neurological apparantly. Anyone know the name of this disease?

To anyone who knows Swedish, the vet said they simply call it vingelmops - "wobble pug". :-)

Peter Isotalo 18:16, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

They can have problems with small children, as the children may poke the Pug's eyes.

Isn't this true of just about any animal??

Yes, except pugs have big eyes not protected by a prominent brow ridge, which makes them more vulnerable.

[edit] Bug

Please verify the article Bug (dog breed) contributed by an anot not long time ago. mikka (t) 01:45, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mops redirects here?

While "mops" may be a variant name for the pug, I think in English it's far more commonly the plural of the word mop (or the 3rd person singular of the corresponding verb). So I'm changing the redirect of mops to point to mop, with a note there that anyone looking for the breed of dog should see pug. Angr/talk 11:53, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, dangitty dang, I set the blangedy blang page up as a disambig and then someone else changed it to point directly to here for some reason and now it points somewhere else. I'm going to revert it to a dab. Elf | Talk 17:47, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Order of the Pug

The Order of the Pug translated from de:Mops-Orden. --SGOvD webmaster (talk) 23:07, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of certain images

I have removed some images from the gallery, diff, becuase they are of poor quality and are not really that good. Kilo-Lima|^(talk) 17:32, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

• I've looked at the images removed, and can't figure out what was wrong with them. Most were high resolution images, so I don't understand the "poor quality" justification - can you be more specific? As for "not really that good" - that's a subjective statement, and no one can really question your thoughts about the images - how you feel is how you feel. I do think that one person's subjective interpretation is not, in and of itself, a good enough reason to delete content off of Wikipedia. Can we get a reconsideration of this edit?

• There was no non-megalomaniacal reason to delete those pictures. Some people, despite their alleged mensa level IQ fail to comprehend that some individual's aesthetic preferences don't further wikipedia's mission.

[edit] Please fix contradictions

I don't know enough about Pugs to fix this but some statements in this article contradict each other. Two different places state that Pugs need regular exercise to keep from getting fat. But at the bottom of the trivia section there are three photos, the last of which states "Pugs require a relatively amount of small exercise". Aside from the fact that this sentence doesn't technically make sense in English, it seems to be saying Pugs need very little exercise. Can somebody who knows something on this subject please reword that (and/or fix the other two statements if Pugs don't need regular exercise). Thanks. Fife Club 15:39, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, my pug is rather fat, so perhapes I shouldn't say anything, but my understanding is that while they don't require much exercise, for example a daily walk around the block is plenty, they enjoy their food enough that if they aren't getting what they need in exercise they will bulk up rather quickly.Rbl 04:09, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clean up

I have cleaned up the article; it was previously a copyright violation. Iolakana|^T 16:37, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Famous pug fanciers?

I know that Winston Churchill was fond of pugs ^[1] and his wife called him one as a term of endearment^[2]

[edit] Good article

This article posseses all of the qualities of a good article. If you ever chose to nominate the article for FA, I'd reccomend removing the gallery.Some P. Erson 14:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My edits

First of all, i hope my edits help. Pugs have also the appeal of their tongue which are funny. By the way, there are smart pugs, just somtimes they play around too much. Take my 11 month old pug, chato, which i added the picture of and i have more..He understands lots of things, he can sit, beg lay down and basically he doesnt pee, poop inside or damage any furniture, and the only things he has ever messed up are some plants and a little leg of furniture, which he was punished and then he never did it again, pugs just take patience, and not to be too rough on a dog. Now all he does is obey, be fun, loving, and greet anyone that comes into the house old and new with a heppy face, as he is NEVER mad or bites anyone for any reason. Pugs are smart, the dumb one might be the breeder. I hope my edits :)

Thank you for your contributions. Sounds like you have a nice pug! I have had to remove one edit that you made: the aka part. It appears that, because your pug is called Chato, does not mean that they are all also known as Chato. Your other contributions seem fine. Iolakana•T 18:37, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Apricot links to apricot the fruit, which isn't really relevant24.131.12.228 04:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ediots

One of my first edits to Wikipedia was slammed with, "You are, however, encouraged to add content instead of links to the encyclopedia." I added content. I also added a reference link to an extensive article that I would've been happy to share with Wikipedia. Both were removed. As a long-time owner of Pugs, I feel I know a little something about the breed. Your loss. Wikipedia deserves its reputation as a bunch of Ediots. --Peanutty 07:11, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of name

Without citation, saying that the name is somehow derived from Puck out of Shakespeare seems a bit farfetched. I'm not going to change it, but I that was my first thought on reading. Cheers! Chuchunezumi 20:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Historical" role

There is a comment about a pug saving William of Orange's life at Hermigny. I've been googling for it, but more or less the only place I can find "Hermigny" or "Hermingny" mentioned, is in combination with this particular story and generally on pug enthousiast sites. It doesn't really seem a reliable source of information. At best, I'd call it a legend, but I definitely wouldn't present it as fact without more solid evidence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.224.52.242 (talk) 10:38, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] smartness

I would just like to say that we got a pug puppy for x-mas, and he is a very smart puppy. He already has learned a fair number of tricks. He really seems to catch on pretty fast. Some of the tricks he learnt with in the day. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.53.79.21 (talk) 16:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Todo:

1. Need to clean up the breed standard "physical appearance" section. reference the AKC breed standard page. use the AKC standard instead of the book. the AKC is a more reliable source.
2. clean up the citations to have titles rather than just urls.
3. get a few more / better pictures showing good looking pugs & their specific features

Jmatthew3 04:46, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] admonitions against pug hybrids

in what possible way are the potential issues with purchasing pug hybrids any different from potential issues that arise when purchasing a purebred animal? unscrupulous breeders, unhealthy or poorly-bred dogs, eventual non-cuteness and lack of owner responsibility are not in any way specific to hybrids (fully-grown and aging pugs can fall well outside many people's rubric for "cute," after all, and a purebred pug requires every bit as much commitment as a "puggle" or "pugaboo," however stupid those names may be). frankly, that whole section strikes me as biased and unnecessary. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Superineficaz (talk • contribs) 20:28, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

• i added that section, and i both agree and disagree with you. While unscrupulous breeders are issues everywhere, they are issues that are particularly significant to "fad" animals. Also, there is an element of risk in breeding two very different lines together. With any purebred animal, the risks are known. With hybrids, the risks are unknown. Because of the unknown risk, the fact that hybrids are more likely to be "fad" dogs, and because of the low number of breeders / high price for these animals, they are likely to attract bad breeders *AND* breeders with good intentions who don't know what they're doing. Jmatthew3 20:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shannanigans

I call shanannigans. This article was written with a breeder's bias. Preferences in shapes and colors for breeds should not be included in this article. 71.68.17.30 19:54, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes shape & color preferences are part of the official AKC guidelines for a specific breed. Therefore, the preferences would be a good addition to the article, but only with the understanding that it is the AKC's opinion, and not some sort of "fact" that certain shapes & colors are "better". --JD79 14:10, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Delist as GA

I delisted the article per the multitude of uncited facts as well as a bloated trivia section about celebrity pugs. I tried to be bold and find sources myself, but as I was unable to it begs delisting as GA. Also, compared to such GA articles as Guinea pig, Pug is not as comprehensive as I feel it should be to be considered GA status. If someone can source the tagged claims and expand it a bit, then GA might be in order again. VanTucky 21:51, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] frank iero

I know that Frank Iero from My Chemical Romance has a pet pug. Maybe that should be put in for famous people's pugs. I don't know how to add things, but if someone could add that, it would probably add more to the information of pugs.

I'm not sure that listing every musician that has a pet pug would add anything to this article. Superbeecat 09:12, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I strongly agree with you. I'm going to be bold and crop that section a bunch. Knowing that some of-the-moment musician happens to own a pug does absolutely nothing to further one's understanding. Only historical fanciers are appropriate, in my opinion. --JD79 14:10, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other meanings

Has anyone considered adding a link to another page, or adding a disambiguation page, because the term "pug" is also very common in referring to a "pick up game" in video games like CS; it is like a scrim but with any collection of the right number of players rather than organised clans.

[edit] fatness

pugs are really fat dogs, they can weigh up to 100 pounds. they can have up to 99.999% body fat.

the above statement is just, plain, wrong! Logrolls (talk) 18:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] smartness and c-csections

I have pugs and I have bred them...they and their offspring are very smart and easy to train and very loving. They are as smart as any retrievers and shepards I have had in the past. My female has never had a c-section, neither did any of the granddams...she was a very good and capable mother. The NY Times article that this article sites is quite wrong... as far as fatness goes if you do not over feed your dog and give it proper exercise (pugs love to take long walk and romp and fetch, like any dog) you will not have a fat dog. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Littleturks (talk • contribs) 16:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Added Pug picture

The picture shows a front facing pug in close up detail, as well as a clear view of the face. I added this for three reasons:

1. I feel a front facing pug picture in the article can reliably affirm the description of a pug under the section of appearance.

2.It also shows a clear view of pug eyes (My pug has a little pink eye thought so its not all white on the surroundings of the iris)

3.MY PUG WILL BE ON WIKIPEDIA!!! Talk about international ^.^ Josewiki 03:31, 18 September 2007 (UTC) Josewiki

[edit] Pugnus

I know it's out there in a lot of books, that Pug comes from the Latin for fist. But it just doesn't add up, and I think it should be eliminated from the intro.

The problem is that, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, Pug was first applied to the breed in 1702 -- centuries before the breed had its (now) distinctive wrinkled face. (See the picture of Hogarth's pug in the main article, for example). Instead the OED suggests Pug comes from a much earlier meaning of the English word completely unrelated to fists: "a term of endearment for a person (or, occasionally, an animal); also applied to a plaything, as a doll or pet." Pug originates from the breed's playful demeanor, not its wrinkled face.

Should we vote on getting rid of it?

User:Evolve17 20 September 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.195.154.169 (talk) 16:55, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you, after looking up what your just said, i found that you're right. I Vote for getting rid of it..

Josewiki 00:10, 23 September 2007 (UTC)Josewiki

Logrolls (talk) 18:17, 27 November 2007 (UTC)How about putting something like, there are alternate opinions on the origins of the term "pug," and then list them both...

Pugs had their 'distinctive wrinkled face' for over 2000 years, since they were specifically bred for that purpose by the Chinese royalty. Most likely the dog in the 'picture of Hogarth's pug' was either not a pug or was a crossbreed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.13.168.78 (talk) 16:09, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] reverse sneezing

apparently there is a "[citation needed]" about reverse sneezing. it is described slightly different everywhere i read about it, but they all say pretty much the same thing. "This is caused by fluid or debris getting caught under the palate and irritating the throat or limiting breathing." might be what needs to be changed because according to other sources that mention or specifically talk about it, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_sneezing and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beagles) no one knows why they do it. the rest of the information is accurate and matches other sources... so you know.. anyone who can change that, should... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.138.58 (talk) 20:32, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] binomial name

What is a pug's binomial name (genus & species)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.255.229.66 (talk) 20:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)