Talk:Public library

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Contents

[edit] Random talk

the history section of this article really, really needs to be cleaned up. It's semi-incoherent atm. phoebe 19:41, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

also, most of the introductory text is US & UK-centric; if anyone knows anything about public libraries in the rest of the world and can check that this is accurate (or write about country-specific differences) that would be useful. phoebe 19:44, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why did "Lending Libraries" lead to this page?

When I was reading about Charles Dickens's novels, I found that in the nineteenth century, books were as comparatively expensive for the common populace as VHS tapes of movies were when tapes of feature films were started being offered for sale. At that time, there were few public libraries. Just as "video rental shops" appeared, charging a fee, so too were there lending libraries that you had to pay to rent a book. One of them in Britain was called "Mudie's". And just like the successful video stores in many countries, it became a chain across that country. When a book was rented, the whole family read it so as to save money. And the novels appeared in sets of three volumes, so there was turnover for rentals from these libraries. Sales to such lending libraries were appreciable; they would have several copies of the same book when it came out, of course. These are not public libraries. Sobolewski 00:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] good question

Such private lending libraries were accidentally omitted, and the page will be written & the links fixed. I'll start with what you just wrote, and then you're very welcome to add more. We also need a page on video rental establishments--they're mentioned in the stub Rental shop.

While at it, I removed the general library material.
In the US, their origin is generally connected with church or parish libraries, not as imitations of univ. libraries. We do not seem to have an article on those earlier libraries, and I am not competent to write it. DGG 05:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Links to campaigns supporting public libraries

The links that appeared at the bottom of this page where there when this page was split off from the contents of the original Library entry.

These link were removed in the last few days by a user who has made an accusation that these were soapbox links and that any issues of the continued existence and funding of public libraries was not worth considering as part of this article.

I do not know how this view can possibly be justified. The public campaigns are as much a part of the history of public libraries as any of the details contained in the main article.

The accusation that these links are represent some form of "soapbox" is hard to understand. The links are to both government organisations which set public library policy and to national campaign groups which also provide support and discussion of the issues involved.

I append the definition from the Wikipedia page on the soapbox topic.

I cite the following clause as a justification for keeping the links since they point to both the official government library sites (many of which seek to reduce library services) and to the independent campaigns who seek to maintain and improve library resources.

"Of course, an article can report objectively about such things, as long as an attempt is made to approach a neutral point of view."

As both views are included the links should be regarded as neutral and balanced.


87.74.127.222 20:15, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I support the removal of these links as encyclopedic.DGG 03:44, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
It will not accomplish anything to have repeated insertions and deletions, so we must find a better solution. current events and the like are suitable for WP, but advocacy is not. Would it be possible to make a separate article about one or more of the campaigns? DGG 03:00, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links to campaigns supporting public libraries (offsite comment)

One of Good Library Guide contributors pointed out that there seems to be evidence of crypto-censorship on Wikipedia on many issues so I don't know if it is a good idea to continue to cite Wikipedia as a reliable source.

Wikipedia began as a great experiment in collaboration technology but it seems to be becoming a censor's playground.

In some respects it appears to be a tool used by those with an anti-library agenda.

Issues which touch on the very survival of public libraries are routinely sidelined and all references removed.

Luckily you can trace through the history of the edits and see precisely when and where cuts have been made. Identifying the censors is not so easy. Many are anonymous and few of the published personal profiles can be trusted for accuracy. What this shows is how fragile online information can be and how much easier it is to employ crypto-censorship to digital media than to printed material. It really is a Fahrenheit 451 scenario but sneaky.

I want to cite just one example :

The pro-library quotation by Sir Tim Berners-Lee (the inventor of the World Wide Web) has been removed from his biography page several times and has been re-instated. It was finally cut off of the article entirely last July by an unknown editor. It had attracted anonymous comment and the the page was vandalised several times and had to be restored before the quotation was excised.

This is the section that was removed :

start of quote ------

Sir Tim Berners-Lee's genius is not confined to, or prejudiced by, computer technology. In a 2005 interview with BBC Television, he made a statement which shows his opinion of the reach of the internet as an informational resource.

"Even the clearest, cleverest and most comprehensive website cannot hope to equal the wealth of information contained in a good reference book. The internet is most definitely not a substitute for a well-stocked public library".

end of quote ------

I have also checked the page mentioned by one of your contributors and note that the censor in this instance claims to be a professional librarian operating in the best interests of Wikipedia by ensuring that the text is limited to that which can be deemed encyclopedic.

That rule does not seem to apply with the same level of severity on over 90% of the Wikipedia pages. The links to the international library campaigns (which include a link to this blog - I originally found this site via a Wikipedia link on the library article, that no longer exists) were moved from the main Library page to another called Public Library and then removed from that page.

Please feel free to edit the Public Library page on Wikipedia to restore the links or at least leave your comments on the Talk page associated with the Public Library page.

Posted by: Lloyd Cole at December 4, 2006 7:24 PM —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.157.14.13 (talk) 21:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

It may have gotten confusing, but I at any rate am equally comfortable with having them in this article or having them out. The only thing I'm not comfortable with is fighting about them & reverting repeatedly 21:44, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some reorg

I did some reorganizing of the lede section. Also I removed this sentence since I was not sure what it was trying to say.

In the larger cities, they are to some extent reference libraries as well and offer free access to on-line databases with resources for business, healthcare, parenting, consumer education, career counseling, and education.

Are there libraries in larger cities that offer free access to on-line databases? Or is this saying that public libraries are also reference libraries because they offer free access...? As opposed to most libraries offering access to the internet? In what countries/cities would these database access libraries be found?

Also, the information in the lede and the new section I created (Public library#Services offered) describes libraries in the United States pretty well. Is this same description true in other countries? --Tinned Elk 19:05, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] suggestion for country list compilation regarding public libraries

I would like to see a list of all countries that have public libraries included in this article Ensoll (talk) 04:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)