Talk:Psilocybin mushrooms
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[edit] split?
It's really hard to get past that LONG list of species. Anyone agree/disagree that there should be a new page for the list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Heatherfire (talk • contribs) 04:53, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
- Done. Alan Rockefeller (Talk - contribs) 23:25, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
thus proving that shrooms will mess u up —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.1.206.117 (talk) 14:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
"thus proving that shrooms will mess u up" What's that supposed to mean?(Aweedwhacker (talk) 21:22, 9 February 2008 (UTC))
[edit] Merge with Psilocybin?
Merge or not, the "Effects" section does not belong here. It most properly belongs in the Psilocin page, rightly. --1000Faces (talk) 06:33, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] psilocybin mushrooms
I went through the artical and found noting of what makes you have a hallucination. I was talking with a friend earlyer to day and he told me that the reasion that you do hallucinate is because blood runs down your brain stem and I just want to know if this is true or not because I would rather not be taking a natural product that does bodly harm.71.222.165.32 (talk) 01:33, 21 March 2008 (UTC)Brandi S.
That is entirely untrue 24.65.42.159 (talk) 21:55, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Psilocybin in relation to human evolution.
I wish this article could contain some information about Terrence Mckenna's theory about psilocybin in relation to human evolution.
Actually, it would be great if somebody could make a separate page about "Psilocybin and human evolution".
There is some info here though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_McKenna#The_.22Stoned_Ape.22_theory_of_human_evolution --Zanthius (talk) 15:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
- 'McKenna did not attempt to defend his hypotheses through rigorous scientific evidence; he consciously self-identified as a type of shaman, or ethnobotanist. McKenna and his followers view his theories as speculation that is at a minimum scientifically feasible and arguably gifted by special knowledge due to psychedelic plants.' Do you really think that information is related to the term of 'encyclopedia'? -- 82.209.225.33 (talk) 07:37, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
I know that the evolution of the ability to think abstractly must have been one of the prime causes which made monkeys evolve into human beings. The invention of numbers, the formation of religious doctrines, the formation of complex social structures - all such things requires the ability to think abstractly. There seems to be a need for some kind of a shock which pushed our species out of the typical animalistic behavior pattern. Why would a species choose to break out of its typical animalistic behavior pattern, unless there was some kind of a shock applied to the species?
I wouldn't spontaneously invent numbers, form religious doctrines, and complex social structures, if I was a Gorilla. However, if there was some kind of a shock pushing my mind out of my typical animalistic behavior pattern, I might start to do such things. From my vast experience with magic mushrooms some years ago, I think it is safe to say that it provides some kind of a shock which stimulates your mind to think more abstractly. Yes, if I was a Gorilla, I would probably also start to think more abstractly, if I started to eat magic mushrooms.--Zanthius (talk) 19:26, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
- The ability to think abstractly can't have been one of the causes of monkeys evolving into humans, because they didn't. The notion that ideas like numbers, religious doctrines and complex social structures were "spontaneously" invented is erroneous - the number zero, for example, didn't occur until after the birth of Christ and even then not in the complete form we use it in now. Complex social structures themselves are exhibited by an enormous (if not all) range of animal species and are not peculiarly human. These social structures (and in my opinion consciousness and abstract thought itself) are explained by Emergence as a natural although generally inexplicable growth due to interaction between agencies. Besides all that, imagine you're a gorilla and you eat a mushroom - all of a sudden you're experiencing things at a confusing level of intensity, you feel weak, maybe nauseaous, and the resulting abnormal behaviour immediately alienates you from the troop causing them to cast you out and reducing your chances of reproducing at all. All in all, I definitely would not place magic mushrooms on the level of, say, The Monolith. --210.55.180.44 (talk) 03:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Most historians actually agree upon the notion that the first humans should be defined according to when our genetic strain developed a "symbolic language", and gained the ability of "collective learning" - which made our pool of collective knowledge increase from one generation to the next. Who are you to say that people only gets nauseous and feel weak, when they eat magic mushrooms? Most people don't get a bad trip when they eat magic mushrooms, they get enlightening spiritual experiences - see the Marsh Chapel Experiment for details. Personally, I used to feel very strong when I ate magic mushrooms.
I am completely convinced that psilocybin stimulated my ability to think abstractly when I used it, and when the ability to think abstractly is stimulated, it increases the probability for developing a symbolic language. The Olmec civilization in middle America might have invented the number zero long before the birth of Christ by the way, and they probably used a lot of magic mushrooms in their religious ceremonies.
I also feel much more related to the deep spiritual experiences of magic mushrooms, than to those stupid chimpanzees. I really hope that I originate just as much from divine mushrooms, as from those stupid chimpanzees! At least that would give me *some* divine origin.--Zanthius (talk) 22:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- There are a few people who can think very abstractly without the use of MM. Most people with very high intelligence think on a different level than people with average intelligence. There is also an ability called 'Low latent inhibition' which allows the person to connect varying things that a normal person simply would not be able to think of. People of high intelligence, who have LLI can think on an extrodinary level. It is likely men like Bobby Fischer or possibly Einstein had this ability. Even still, some autistics and Aspergers or true ADHD (not the majority of people who think because they get tired of studying they have ADHD) coupled with high intelligence, can breed unbelievable mental abilities. The gap of human intelligence is incredible to the point a genius would have a hard time dealing with people of lesser intelligence from the sheer incompetence an average person would have to what they are grasping. That is why a lot of the most brilliant men were called crazy in there day. Not because the one person was stupid, but because the masses were not able to understand. Therefore, those people would have spearheaded the movements, just like they have in history. In the time since writing, human intelligence hasn't change a single degree. Sargon the Great would have made a good president now, just like he was a good king 6000 years ago. Moses would have been a great political leader now, just as he was then. I simply don't believe people tripping on psilocybin 'opened' there eyes to the things that allowed us to evolve.
- As an anthropologist it seems very unlikely that the evolution of man was based almost solely, or even partly on the use of a hallucinogenic substance. It is an appealing theory to a mushroom lover. I am a coffee lover but I don't buy the theory that Coffee is what caused the industrial revolution. As for being in proximity to the cattle for the mushrooms, let's think at a most practical level, In the daily fight for existence, especially in Africa, cattle would have been worth milk, meat, monetary value, and even there blood to drink for minerals. There is so much more basic needs.
- Also, It simply isn't possible to claim the invention--discovery--of zero to the use of mushrooms. Could it be true? Of course it could be true. But I have to say thousands of years of astronomy and a mathematecian class in Mesoamerica probably led to it's discovery, not a priest sitting on a hill watching the sunset on mushrooms.
- And as for the decent from monkey's, as a skeptic, I think we are wasting years of study basing everything on that. We need to look from other angles. I am not saying it did not happen that way but humans are so different than anything else. Why are we the only ones? Out of millions and millions of animals, even plants and everything in between, why is it only us? Nothing else could destroy the world, no other creature has as much power, and none even come within a close range. I just cannot believe that humans are the descendents of a stupid creature in Africa. It just is too humble a beginning for the greatness humanity has achieved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.169.218 (talk) 16:36, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
The comparison of the vaguely stimulating and highly addictive effects of caffeine, to the highly psychoactive and non-addictive effects of psilocybin, isn't much good. A caffeine addiction isn't much good for your health by the way, but as nutritionists increasingly are saying - everything you eat, and even the air you breath, is affecting your health, and possibly also the long term evolution of a species. Humans are said the have evolved a protein for milk digestion after people started to drink milk in the agrarian period, while Japanese people are said to have above average intelligence, due to the high concentration of omega 3 fatty acids in their raw fish diets.
I know perfectly well that the intellectual gap between super geniuses and ordinary people is huge, but thinking abstractly isn't so much a matter of either/or, it is rather a gradient of different levels of abstraction. Sure, Einstein could think much more abstractly than ordinary people in his normal state of consciousness, but that doesn't mean that Einstein couldn't have increased his level of abstraction even more by eating magic mushrooms, just like a good seed can increase its growth even more by the use of fertilizers. I also think it is probable that super geniuses have more psilocybin in their ancestral blood, than ordinary people.
One of the things I loved to do when I used to eat magic mushrooms, was to go out and look at the stars, or the aurora borealis. So I wouldn't find it strange if magic mushrooms stimulated an interest for the evolution of astronomy in Mesoamerica. Also, remember that in ancient times, astronomy was highly related to religion, quite unlike in our days. The Maya calendar wasn't just for keeping track of time, it also had major religious significances.
More than 98% of human DNA is similar to chimpanzee DNA, so of course we are related to them in some ways, but I prefer to think that the good qualities in human beings, like the ability to think abstractly and the ability to have spiritual values, is derived from the use of magic mushrooms in archaic times.
Why do you think the people eating magic mushrooms usually are much more attracted to highly abstract fractal art, than what ordinary people usually are? Isn't this clearly indicating that magic mushrooms leads to abstract thinking, and to a fascination of the abstract?--Zanthius (talk) 17:10, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Psilocybin mushrooms outside the Western Hemisphere
Is there any history for the use of psilocybin mushrooms outside mesoamerica and in the Eastern Hemisphere before the Spanish came to the new world? There are many theories about the drink called Soma, the Eleusian Mysteries, in the dung of cattle of prey of pre-historic humans in Africa, ect. but I haven't read an article that talks about this history.....were mushrooms just discovered in the new world or did they exist in the old world and where just unknown by the time the Spanish found them in the new world? Just like cannabis was unknown in the new world until it was brought from the old world. Zachorious (talk) 11:41, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
See Amanita muscaria. That mushroom of course being very different and having extremely different effects. Beach drifter (talk) 18:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Eastern Europe has a long tradition. Possibly the Vikings as well. There was an ancient Bogman (the name slips from me) found it Jutland that had ergot in his stomach. It is thought that it was an intentional dose, and not accidental. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.170.169.218 (talk) 16:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Possibly the Vikings? We Norwegians know perfectly well that the Vikings used to eat fleinsopp ( psilocybe semilanceata ).--Zanthius (talk) 00:40, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Dosage
The indications for dosage seem to be repeated, and to be contradictory in terms of strength, does anyone know an expert who could clear this section up? 24.65.42.159 (talk) 21:55, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Are there any sexual side effects noted? that would be interesting
