Talk:Psilocybin mushrooms/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Maria Sabina quote

Where is the reference on the quote by Maria Sabina about the mushrooms loosing purity after westerners discovered them?

Missing info on (nonexistant) harmful effect

I believe that many people who read this article will be looking for info on the horrible negative effects of consumption. Since these (or the absence of these) are not mentioned at any length, most will then assume the worst, or that the negative effects are so obvious that they need not be mentioned.

So one thing this article may need is a section with clear info on the side- and possible long term effects (not just hppd) one way (the best?) to do this would be to list effects in different areas. Unfortunately i neither have time or qualifications to write such descriptions, but here is at least an illustation of what i mean:

physical--->can cause gas, helps against cluster headaces,...
emotional---> bla,bla,bla
mental---> bla, bla, blabla, HPPD,
neurological--
etc, etc.
--Mindzpore 16:22, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Also in the Sensory section there is a brief definition of synesthesia. This seems somewhat misplaced since the link will take people to a more in-depth explanation anyway. Gabblack 17:36, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I second this. For example, the LSD article properly talks about addiction and physical dangers. This article needs that too. I remember back in high school, some kids ended up in the hospital due to mushrooms and had their stomachs pumped, though I don't know the full details. By this anecdote it seems mushrooms aren't harmless, at least. I don't know enough to write anything either. BlankAxolotl 03:04, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
They must have misidentified their mushrooms because the only reason you would need to get your stomach pumped is if you ate a poisonous lookalike. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.167.53.114 (talk) 00:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

Amanita Muscaria, Side Effects

"Most users only eat the mushrooms once or twice due to their unpleasant side effects and the tendency for a recreational user to try too much causing very harsh side effects." - from the section "Amanita Muscaria"

Would it make sense to elaborate upon the "unpleasant" and "very harsh" side effects?

habitat section

I thought the shrooms also grew in mulch, pine, wood chips, native trees, wet areas???

you can use stuff like rice cakes... only the plain ones tho... like quaker oate rice cakes... ands an augor (sulture dish medium) mix can be used and is probably more effective

Renaming this page?

The term "magic mushroom", while common, is certainly very colloquial, at least slightly subjective, and I would say not really "encyclopedic". I would suggest renaming the page to "psychedelic mushrooms" (psychedelic merely meaning "mind manifesting", which they certainly are) and having "magic mushrooms" be a redirect to "psychedelic mushrooms". --Erasurehead

Good idea! Haiduc 17:09, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I agree with Haiduc. --Wetman 23:00, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Countdown. If there are no objections, I'll move the page tomorrow to "Psychedelic Mushrooms" Haiduc 02:23, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I just moved this page. If there are any concerns, post them here. Also, I changed the wording from "Magic mushrooms" to "Psychadelic mushrooms" in general usage to match the title change. I believe I got them all, but it would be a good idea for someone to verify this. --CoderGnome 01:34, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hi, Thanks for changing the "Magic Mushroom" page, but the new name is misspelled. It needs to read "Psychedelic." Sorry for the bother. (posted this to your page before reading your post in full) Haiduc 02:45, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Since we're really concerned about sounding "encyclopedic" and are debating adjectives wouldn't it be best if we changed the title to Psychotropic mushrooms since psychedelic seems to refer to a number of things originating in the sixties?

The term "psychotropic" could be equally dated, and it is vague and unclear. Psychedelic refers to a particular aspect, the "mind manifesting" aspect. No term is ideal but I think this is the best, despite some people's use of it to describe tee shirts. Haiduc 12:57, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

It is mentioned below that a. muscaria is classed as a dissociative and not a psychedelic, so maybe "psychoactive mushroom" would be better? Erasurehead 15:04, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree with Erasurehead's proposal of "psychoactive mushrooms"; A. Muscaria and the P. Cubensis varieties really should be grouped on the same page (annotation: mushrooms with psychoactive properies) to facilitate useful search results. Quickfastgoninja 01:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the Erowid website (considered to be a major resource on drugs) classes A. Muscaria as both a "Deleriant" and a "Psychedelic." Nareek 15:56, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

LSD Health Effects?

What are the associated negative health effects with LSD? I am finding it hard to discern any useful information on google out of all the propaganda (They are bad because you may panic! You can die if you take 100!). Thanks. [1] [2] [3] [4] Genjix 16:01, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

There really aren't any. Simply put, LSD-25 will cause no harm to the human body (so long as it's not laced with arsenic, or something blatant like that), although I suppose there could be some seretogenic effects. Psychological damage, however, is still a prominent risk, potentially manifesting in ways that would lead one to say that LSD is physically harmful (i.e. PTSD). The most noted but still controversial negative effects of heavy LSD use are flashbacks. Such instances have been documented by many users, but as with most psychedelics, research into this is quite limited and therefore so are the reasons behind these flashback episodes. Quickfastgoninja 03:16, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

UK legal status & Clause 21

Clause 21 of a new drugs bill by the British government proposes to clarify the legal 'loophole' of psilocybe-containing mushrooms only being illegal once 'prepared' by making ALL psilocybe containing fungi (fresh, dried, whatever) Class A substances. The new law (which would make previously law-abiding users punishable by imprisonment for posession or sale) if passed will come into effect May 2005.

I don't know enough on the legal details of the issue to write a comprehensive section to the article, but it certainly deserves a mention, so that UK users know about the danger of becoming Class A criminals in the near future. I can but offer a link to a more decriptive page, which is openly biased in the debate.

-M

Redundant Article

This article is really a mess, and redundant to boot. There's a statement about "This entry is for Psilocybes and related species; for Fly Agaric, see Amanita muscaria", though there is in fact a lot of material on A. muscaria in this article. I'm really not clear why there should be two separate articles about Psilocybe and Psilocybe as a Psychedelic Mushroom. Once I have completed my rewrite of the Psilocybe article and done some work on the Amanita muscaria article, I intend to reduce this page to a brief disambiguation page pointing to the articles on Psilocybe and Amanita muscaria.

Peter Werner - 20 Jun 2005

The Psilocybe article seems well conceived, and as long as the info here is preserved there I agree with your plan. Haiduc 3 July 2005 14:01 (UTC)


I see the following:
   ...found mainly in the genus Psilocybe (although there are also species that belong to the genera
   Conocybe, Stropharia, Panaeolus, and Copelandia)
Where will these mushrooms fit in? BTW, Gymnopilus can be added to this list. Graham - 3 July 2005


I don't think this page is redundant at all and Graham has a good point. I think a better strategy than getting rid of this page would be to keep it general and even include info on amanita muscaria, with links to individual articles on psilocybes, other psilocybin containing genera, and amanita muscaria (u. pantherina). Detailed info about particular mushrooms or genera can be in the respective individual article. This article could contain more info about the history and traditional and current use of psychoactive mushrooms. The existence of a well written article on psilocybin mushroom is an excellent complement to a general article on psychoactive mushrooms, but doesn't make the general article superfluous. --Erasurehead
peter, i also think that the page should be kept as more than a redirect- but not much more than that, as most of it is very redundant. imho a short paragraph of background material is probably warranted for the page, with the psylocibe and amanita pages actually having all the detail and info; the above extra genera also need to be taken into account. but ultimately, if you are strongly opposed to this, i'd go along with your opinion- your work on the mushroom pages has been excellent and was greatly needed. --Heah (talk) 18:10, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
hmmm, the question of whether it's redundant is also a question of where the information should be. General information on psychedelic mushrooms can and should be in this article, while information specific to either psilocybe or amanita muscaria can and should be on those specific pages. I would be more inclined to say that general info on psychedelic mushrooms which is on the psilocybe page should be here, and would be redundant if also on the psilocybe page. It's easy to figure out: just consider the title of the article and think about whether the info you want to present fits in with the more general or more specific topic.
In accord with the comments here, I've cleaned up this article, slightly generalizing it by adding comments and references to other types of psychedelic fungi and have made the parts only refering to psilocybes specific. I have accordingly removed the clean up notice. erasurehead 00:39, 3 August, 2005
Just like to addL this page is not redundant /at all/ not all Psilocybes are psilocybin containing - there's even some people who regard the psychedelic Psilocybes as a seperate genus. AP

While browsing through stuff for cleanup with AWB, it occurred to me that this article shouldn't be covering A. muscaria. The article is "psychedelic mushroom"; as the term psychedelic drug is used here, muscaria isn't included- it's considered a dissociative. So in the name of consistency, A. muscaria really shouldn't be discussed on this page. As psilocybe is only one of several genuses of psilocybin containng mushrooms, i'm not sure that this should be purely a redirect . . . --He:ah? 02:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget that this page was originally named "magic mushroom" and magic mushroom redirects here. The page was renamed (my original suggestion) because "Magic mushroom" was found to be too colloquial. At any rate, A. muscaria is definitely a "magic mushroom", and "magic mushroom" is really the spirit of this article, so a.muscaria should be part of this article. If you're worried about semantics, then I would suggest renaming the page "psychoactive mushroom", though to be honest, I think all this splitting of hairs (on this and other pages) about psychedelic vs. dissociative (like with Ketamine, etc.) is getting a little carried away. "psychedelic" means "mind manifesting", and a. muscaria (and Ketamine) certainly is "mind manifesting", so where's the problem?. In addition, here's a quote taken directly from the psychedelic page:
"At high levels [of psychedelic drugs] this can overwhelm the sense of self and can result in a dissociative state."
So it looks like there's an overlap in the very definition. Erasurehead 14:57, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I think that this sort of thing is useful to some degree; the experiences engendered by ketamine and LSD are quite different. There is some overlap, yes, which is why we call them all "hallucinogens"- or rather, called them all hallucinogens until that page was moved to psychedelics, dissociatives and deliriants. With the different terms, its as if we're saying "these are all hallucinogens, but there are several different mechanisms of action/experiential qualities within this class of drugs." Cocaine, caffeine, and methamphetamine are all stimulants, but are still different classes of drugs, with different mechanisms of action and so on . . . But yeah, the comment above was pretty much just splitting hairs; i was just reading through the talk page and that occured to me so i figured i'd share it . . . I have no strong feelings that this page should be limited only to psychedelic mushrooms, it was just kind of a funny thought . . . ;) --Heah? 16:25, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

"Psychedelic mushrooms are usually sold on the black market dried, but are sometimes incorporated into chocolate or baked into brownies, cakes or muffins."

This is untrue and I edited it and the article was never changed. Psilocybe is broken down when exposed to heat. They are never baked into foods...

but I've had mushroom fudge....

Fudge requires boiling and the chemical can withstand that amount of heat. That's why people often make mushroom tea. But the temp. it requires to bake shrooms into foods would destroy all of their hallucinogenic properties. So someone should change that..


yeah i have eaten them WITH brownies. not inside them.


Even though psilocybin and psilocin are broken down when heated, it is not uncommon for people to cook psilocybe mushrooms. I have seen them baked into brownies, made into chocolates, baked on pizza, and cooked with a wide variety of foods. Some people are uninformed about the consequences of heating psilocybes. Others are apparently willing to reduce the potency of the mushrooms in order to cover up their taste.

slang

kids around here lately are calling them "marios" and "1-ups" after the popular video game. I've also heard them called "power ups"

Where is that? What age kids? Haiduc 09:36, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Most likely kids in there teenage years, probably from as young as 13 to as old as 21, probably older. The only terms I've really ever heard used much for mushrooms are shrooms and cubies. --Xer0X 13:22, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

here (North Carolina) they're usually shrooms, occasionally mushies. not a whole lot of other slang for them.

Not to be a stick in the mud, but "kids around here" are not a valid source for WP. There are several lists of slang terms for mushrooms online, we should use the terms that occur most commonly in them. Nareek 20:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


we just call them shrooms in california

that's not true. i just tripped yesterday on a chocolate. I broke it open and it just looked like chocolate but it definitly had shrooms in it/

Adding on to the slang thing is the use of "get you fines" or "life in jail". Edit to "lifetime imprisonment" and all? I feel a need for proper grammar, not person-to-person slang. 218.186.9.6 12:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

list of names

The list of names has been moved here pending CITATIONS and REFERENCES. Please do not return a name to the article until reference has been provided, and please read Wikipedia is not for things made up in school one day. Liberty caps, magic mushrooms, shrooms have been left in; liberty caps, however, refer to one particular species of mushroom and accordingly should perhaps be removed as well. thank you. --Heah talk 19:10, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Barney balls
  • Bloomers (chicago term)
  • Boomers
  • Brooms
  • Caps
  • Chocolates
  • Copper tops
  • Cubes
  • Eminems (magic mushrooms)
  • Fungus
  • Fun guys
  • God's flesh
  • Goombas
  • Gomers
  • Gooms
  • ham scrotum
  • Laughing Jims
  • Mexican mushrooms
  • Moon children
  • Misters
  • Mush (common Canadian name)
  • Mushies
  • Oomies
  • Paddo's (common Dutch name)
  • Philoshopher's stones (Sclerotium of psilocybin containing mushrooms)
  • Pizza Toppings
  • Rooms
  • Shrooms
  • tankerbell
  • Zooms
  • Zoomers
  • Zoomies (also common in Canada)
It's sort of hard to provide citation for a slang term, especially if regional, though I understand the need. However, I've heard and used the term "mushies" before. My citation is The Shroomery's message boards, where the term is not uncommon. Also, it's well known that the Aztecs called their mushrooms "Teonancatl", which means "divine flesh" or "Flesh of the Gods". This latter English translation is often used to refer to them, both in literature and casually in speech. j_freeman 01:08, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

A Google search for "mushrooms boomers" turns up numerous lists that include "boomers" as a slang term for psychedelic mushroom. "Fun guys" does not seem to make any of these lists. Nareek 11:18, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be more proficient to list the most commonly used slang terms? I mean, somebody could simply create some funny sounding name and add it to the list, and deem it 'slang'. IMO, only the more commonly used (regardless of origin) slang terms should be included, not this long list of words that is simply going to bring up disputes about accuracy. --Neur0X 19:17, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

The list that's in the article (now near the top) is fairly compact. There may be a term or two that could be usefully added, but it so they should be justified by reference to published lists of common slang terms, not on your memory of what you used to call them in college. Nareek 19:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure this article violates Wikipedia policy by linking from a main article to a talk page.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 13:53, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

"It's sort of hard to provide citation for a slang term, especially if regional"

How about using Erowid drug slang page? —Christopher Mann McKay 05:28, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

The berserker myth...

...seems to be popping up on every page even remotely related to Amanita muscaria. It probably deserves mention since it's a very long-lasting urban legend, but that's what it is [5] -- or at least it's a theory not backed by any contemporary source material, but only on Samuel Ödman going "hey, wouldn't it be neat if..." back in 1784. I'm going to edit these sections. Amphis 19:25, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

i am tripping at the moment on a small dosage of shrooms. i just checked out the article and felt the section of effects really lacked depth. i added 'nausea' because i'm feeling a bit nauseas and often do when on shrooms. it would be great to have an explanasion of why this occurs (poisoning?), and some tips for relief. mint tea is helping some at the moment.

The body thinks (wrongly now) it is poisoned and tries to eliminate any substance that might have caused it. The same way it is fooled into throwing up on a tossing boat, even though the disorientation is not chemically caused. Haiduc 23:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Title

Although the convention is to use singular nouns for titles, for some reason it seems like this title should be plural. Joey Q. McCartney 12:53, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Just as easy to make a redirect from there. AP 06:42, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Whoops - accidentally marked that minor, my bad. AP 22:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

explanation

Clean Up Discussion

Alright, I guess if we're going to have the cleanup tag on the article we'd better add a discussion section about cleanup. I'm going to start doing some reorganization right now and probably come back here later to make a few notes on what else needs work. AP 22:37, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

You should drop a note to Peter Werner, he's been slowly reorganizing the mushroom pages for some time. There's overlap between this and Psilocybe as well as Amanita muscaria, so it might be good to chat about what will go where . . . --Heah talk 23:19, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Aaron - I've been meaning to get back to work on the Psilocybe pages for some time, but frankly, I've been absolutely SWAMPED lately (classes + thesis research will do that). I'm going to try to add some more this weekend. Why don't you work on getting this section together, I'll start plugging away at "Psilocybe" again, and if there's overlap, we'll deal with it as it comes. Peter G Werner 09:17, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
(copied in from the psilocybe discussion page) I agree with Peter whole-heartedly that the general state of this article is still "mess", though last August I did attempt to overhaul it. The state before that was "total mess"! I rewrote the intro, adding the explicit references to a.muscaria, ergot, the kykeon, and their various principle actives, pointing out quite explicitly and right up front that the effects are chemically and symptomatically unrelated, and added the explicit differentiation in the History section in an attempt make clear that there are different psychedelic funghi, each with different histories and effects. cf. this diff (done before I registered): http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Psychedelic_mushroom&diff=20153620&oldid=19885444I
Peter's suggested general strategy of cleaning it up, making it tighter and shorter, with references for detailed reading in psilocybe, amanita muscaria and teonanácatl (and I would suggest ergot and kykeon) in break out style is definitely good. I also agree with his suggestion of making Teonanactl a break-out from psilocybe. Erasurehead 16:13, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


I concur aswell. Onyl major problem I'm having thus far is finding a good, concrete discription of fly-agaric effects. I'm read alot of vaugue stuff about them being "less visual" and so on but nothing particularly encylopedic. 130.111.243.209 AP 01:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Try some of the psychedelics encyclopedias, like Psychedelics Encyclopedia by Peter Stafford, From Chocolate to Morphine by Andrew Weil, Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants by Christian Rätsch, or online at erowid:
http://www.erowid.org/plants/amanitas/amanitas_effects.shtml
Erasurehead 17:32, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

any one else notice that one of the effects of fly agraric is "lemon party"? (Unsigned comment by 71.242.13.48 )

Hmm... Yay Vandals! I removed it. AP

I removed the following: "People on "Shrooms" often refer to themselves as Megaman, Super giant, Super dude, or El Jew Banger 5001". That last one in particular looked suspicious (and gets no google hits). Dave6 03:36, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


Removing im a "crack dealer vandilism" and the paragraph about grow kits not being available in the US, when they still are and it directley contradicts the next paragraph. Does this page need a vandalism tag? Seems it does anyone know how to put one on here?Bart 14:45, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

They grow in manure???

One of the common complaints about people who eat mushrooms is that what they are eating grew in cow shit. I see no mention of this in this article... is it true or not.Jdotpitts 16:35, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

The substrate on which a psychedelic mushroom grows depends on the species and other factors. For example, Psilocybe cubensis is a coprophilic fungus (one that prefers in the wild to grow on dung or manured soils), although it is also possible to grow this species on grains such as rye or brown rice in indoor cultivation as well as substrates such as straw. On the other hand, Psilocybe azurescens and other wood-loving mushrooms (e.g. Psilocybe cyanescens and so on...) prefers to grow on hard-wood chips. While others prefer to grow on grass seed such as Psilocybe mexicana. So in conclusion, yes and no...it depends. Wowbobwow12 10:45, 25 April 2006.
Can we put this in the article? There are numerous pop culture references to psych. mushrooms "growing in shit."

Physical Effect: Death????

I cannot find one legitimate instance of death caused as a direct result of consuming psychedelic mushrooms. Can anyone else? From my understanding there is no established Lethal Dose for psilocybin or psilocin. I am certain that deaths have occured because of improper identification, or as a result of carelessness or an accident that occurred under the influence of psilocybin, but i think it is misleading to list death as a physical effect.

jimmy 207.200.162.227 15:54, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

The "death" is vandalism. I have removed it

Death can be a side affect of the consumption of Fly Agaric. Since Fly Agaric is mentioned in this article as one of the mushrooms, it should appropriate to mention all of the possible effects, and not just the probable. So the listing, which I added, was not vandalism. It is even listed as a side effect under Categorization. Unless someone has something else to say I will add it again. This time I will add a side note though that it has only been attributed to fly agaric.RSIferd 15:49, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Usage

How do you use them? If I find one can I just eat it? Cuzandor 01:27, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

You can, yes. Drying them is also good. Bring a good guide with you and carefuly check you are not eating poison or danger. JayKeaton 18:09, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
What do you mean by guide? Cuzandor 22:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
See trip sitter. j_freeman 00:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

<math>Insert non-formatted text here</math>==Intellectual effects: Extreme Sexual Ideas?== If this is a real entry (i.e., not vandalism), can someone please explain what "Extreme Sexual ideas" means? Also, some sort of citation would be helpful. Wowbobwow12 21:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Man this things are great, if you can try them, the best are the Mexicans, but not the ones called mexicans , the ones you get in Mexico .

Hm my friend and I have been taking shrooms for a while and we and others we have talked to say that shrooms typically put the physical act of sex completely out of your mind, though not the fantasies. So the physical act was unheard of while under the influence of them, I've also tried before and I was quite impotent, not so much the fact that I was aroused but couldn't get erect, but just that my mind was more concerned with other things at the moment. Anyone else? Kniesten 22:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)


yeah. on ecstasy i can be totally in love with a girl. but amphetamine make it impossible to get an erection.

haha, the best way in my opinion is to make tea. boil enough water for 1 cup of tea per person, while your doing that saute the musrooms delicately. after your boil the water add w/e form of tea you want and drop the shrooms in stir it up quick and cover the cup with celefane, wait about 10-15 min and eat the shrooms when u drink the tea, they wont taste like much other than tea.....however someone once mentioned to me that the reaction between the chemicals in the mushrooms and the water might reduce the reaction in your body, but i still have great trips

Long-term side effects

I was wondering about the long-term side effects of mushrooms, if there are any, but the article doesn't make any mention either way. Maybe this should be added? Cheers! The Disco King 16:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, there are not any.. Its a natural toxin, like in food poisoning.. it makes you feel sick but like it was pointed out in the article, the amount of toxin isnt even more than what is in an aspirin. and as far as i know, people dont have problems with the amount of toxin in aspirin, and people dont suffer from any side effects of food poisoning later on after they are poisoned... sooo I think it would be safe to assume that there are no long term effects. - Amputechture

Decreased control of bowels?

I noticed a couple of typos in the Physical Effects list, and one of the items says "Decreased controll of bowl". I assume whoever meant to say "Decreased control of bowels" instead, so I'm editing it. I've never experienced that particular side effect while under the influence of psilocybin, but whatever I'll take the article's word for it.--SeanQuixote | talk | my contribs 19:26, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


that sounds like vandalism

Bowel control was a major issue from me i kept thinking i had peed myself and i had to clench for ages to make sure i didn't...very very discomforting but i have a very low succeptablity and the others i was with did not experience this.

Civility

I put this on the anonymous editor's Talk page, but I wanted to say this for the editor reverted as well: It's one thing to edit people's work, it's another thing to insult them when you do so. My apologies for WP's failure to live up to its ideals of civility. Nareek 22:04, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Identification

The warning was kind of unencyclopedic, but the whole section is really kind of useless. We probably can't teach people how to distinguish between hallucinogenic and poisonous mushrooms, and really shouldn't even try--so what would "identification" be for? Maybe we should move any useful information elsewhere and delete the rest. Nareek 20:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Original Research

I think this is one of the hardest articles to respect WP:NOR on. Do we have any acceptable sources on the comparative dosage of fresh and dried shrooms? One editor says 10x, the other says less. Any ideas? yandman 07:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Psychedelic or psychadelic?

I've always seem the second term. Which one is right? FilipeS 16:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

It's psychedelic. Psychadelic is a misspelling. Angular 19:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
An interesting note however: Timothy Leary, who was largely responsible for the popularization of the term "psychedelic", was a well known proponent of their use, as was Aldous Huxley. The word psychedelic should actually be spelled psychodelic, in accordance with proper Greek, as Huxley had pointed out to Osmund upon the term's conception. However, Leary thought that psychedelic sounded better and deliberately disregarded the proper spelling and pronunciation. Wowbobwow12 20:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Possible addition of new section

Does anyone else believe that it would be helpful to add a new section, like LSD and Cannabis, detailing exactly what receptors mushrooms bind to and affect, how they do so, et cetera? This information could be taken from the psilocybin or psilocin articles, and be subjected to typical cleanup and reorganization. Any feedback would be appreciated. Angular 04:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

New Section Required

I know very little about mushrooms, but a quick read of this page reveals a glaring omission: There is no information about the origin of the phycotics in the mushrooms, i.e. what role do they play in the mushrooms chemistry, biology, what advantages they provide etc. Can someone with more knowledge on the subject please add a section for this purpose. (Gonzonator 12:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC))

         That information should stay on the psilocybe and psilocybin pages, as it is the effect of 
         the chemical in the mushrooms, and not the actual mushrooms. Maybe a link to that page, from 
         somewhere in the effects section?

Overdose?

Is it possible to OD on phychedellic mushrooms?

---Duhon

It is not possible to overdose on psychedelic mushrooms. No known cases have been reported in the medical literature. Reference: Cuomo MJ, Dyment PG, and Gammino VM. Increasing Use of "Ecstasy" (MDMA) and Other Hallucinogens on a College Campus. College Health 42: 271-274 (1994).

Psychological effects

Repressed and otherwise subconscious memories can be recalled.

Within the field of psychology there is significant debate to the existence of both repressed and subconscious memories, with empirical data present supporting both sides of each argument. Given this, I don't believe that this statement belongs in an encyclopedia until this dispute is settled. Therefore, I will be removing this phrase from the page.

Charmston 08:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)charmston

Should the article tell people how to take drugs?

Before complaining about article content, please read: Wikipedia is not censored.
Peter G Werner 03:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I know free information is wonderful, just like free love and free beer, but should this article practically give advice for how to consume illegal drugs? The "Dangers" section includes nothing but tips for how to avoid problems while taking the drugs. I also see that this talk page includes a few people asking where they can find such mushrooms. While I'll never argue against making this information available, does it really belong on Wikipedia? --Asriel 22:58, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Hell, after reading through the article again, the whole thing seems like a flowing recommendation upon the subject matter. All of the effects are presented as good things, the only indication of harm I can find is "A sense of paranoia may be present,[3] and if provoked enough, could culminate into a bad trip. However, the possibility of a bad trip happening can be reduced by a comfortable set and setting." I'd say the neutrality of this article is in question, as it seems to me more like a user's manual than an encyclopedia article. --Asriel 23:05, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, maybe these particular drugs are okay... Of course, we need more scientific studies, but I really do think this particular drug is rather harmless (even though the effect is very strong) compared to others.
About telling people how to use them: I think it's important that there is good information on the subject. People will take them anyway, so maybe it's not such a bad idea to tell them how to avoid a bad trip, or (mostly with other drugs) how to be careful so as not be get addicted, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JVersteeg (talk • contribs) 08:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC).


The article does not tell readers how to take take mushrooms it informs the reader of how mushrooms are taken by users you may as well criticise the article on opium for mentioning pipes.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.188.55.85 (talk • contribs) 10:47, March 16, 2007

"how to be careful so as not be get addicted, etc" (qoute from JVersteeg) - To my knowledge, not many people become addicted to psilocybin mushrooms because shrooms are not physically addictive. Of course someone may develop a psychological addiction to them, as someone may develop a psychological addiction to food, coffee, relationships, sex or other things. Therefore, I don't believe you should put anything about how to be careful to not get addicted to shrooms, because it isn't relevant and it isn’t on other Wikipedia articles of things people become addicted to.
—Christopher Mann McKay 18:25, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, caffeine develops a physical addiction, not psychological. Captanpluto123 22:55, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I am aware of that; but people can still develop a psychological addiction to it. For example, people who used to be cocaine or meth addicts often become psychologically addicted to caffeine because it is an upper; they don't become addicted just because their bodies build a tolerance to the drug. I was just trying to make a point that we should not tell people "how to be careful so as not be get addicted, etc", especially when shrooms are not physically addictive. —User:Christopher Mann McKay 02:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Psychedelic Mushroom Risks

A section about the risks could be interesting.

see this link —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.154.242.68 (talk) 23:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

Maybe its a troll?
75.20.203.169 06:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
That link isn't reliable; it is someone asking a question. If you want a section about health risks, see a reliable web site, such as Government of Canada or Erowid; however, the best route would be to search for reliable studies that have proven the adverse effects of shrooms, instead of using web sites that list the effects, but don’t list any references or original sources.
—Christopher Mann McKay 18:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
In this case, absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Due to their availability and popularity, any lasting negative effects would be put through the propaganda machine and would come out at a very high volume, easily found with google. No government is likely to want to fund a study about the health effects of psilocybin mushrooms because of the probability that it would turn out like the peyote experiment which found no evidence of long term health consequences from heavy mescaline use.

Split proposal

I'm proposing to create a new article called Psilocybin mushrooms which would incorporate the psilocybin-mushroom info from this article, as well as like info from Psilocybe. The Amanita muscaria-related info from this article would be incorporated into the existing article Amanita muscaria. This page would remain as essentially a disambiguation page.

My justification for this is that 1) Psilocybin mushrooms and Amanita muscaria really are two different topics; the psychoactive effects, history, and present legal status for each is quite different; 2) Even though Psilocybin is the active ingredient in psilocybin mushrooms, there are a lot of aspects (legal, historical, etc) that are unique to the mushroom that aren't really appropriate to an article on a pure drug compound, hence the justification for having a separate "Psilocybin mushroom" article; 3) Psilocybin mushrooms fall into multiple genera, Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and few representatives in other genera; the articles "Psilocybe" and "Panaeolus" are better focused on taxonomy and description, etc, with short sections on historical and psychoactive aspects that mainly redirect to other articles.

Please let me know what you think of the proposal. Peter G Werner 05:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Great idea. Alan Rockefeller (Talk - contribs) 05:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Addendum: actually, since most of this article (Psychedelic mushroom) is about psilocybin mushrooms, the way I would go about it is to simply move this page to "Psilocybin mushroom" (hence keeping the edit history) and then cut the Amanita muscaria info out and put it in "Amanita muscaria". Then, I'd recreate a new "Psychedelic mushroom" disambiguation page. Peter G Werner 05:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Strongly agree - they are two different quite disparate topics artificially amalgamated on this page. This page can be kept as a very short article with directs off to the constituent species. cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 10:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Agree. Amanitas and Psilocybe (etc.) are psychedelic because of compounds that completely different pharmacologically (GABA agonists vs. Serotonin agonists) and using the term "psychedelic" to refer to only one pathway is wrong. Psychedelic Mushroom should be a disambig between Psilocybe (etc.) and Amanitas, and psilocybin and muscimol should be referenced in their corresponding mushrooms' articles. Jolb 01:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I think the rule of thumb on proposals like this is let the poll run for two weeks. So I'll let it run until March 27, and if there's no significant objections, I'll go ahead with the reorganization. Peter G Werner 19:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Agree. Amanita muscaria is very different from the true psilocybin mushrooms. In fact Muscaria isn't even a psychedelic drug (it's a dissociative drug). So it doesn't make much sense to keep both substances in the same article. How I see it, the new "Psilocybin Mushrooms" (fungi source) article should be as detailed as the Cannabis (drug) (plant source) article, while the original Psilocybin (compound) article should be as detailed as the THC (compound) article (just showing a parallel example style here for the articles). Zachorious 03:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I've done the basic reorganization of the articles now. I still need to get into the Psilocybe article and move the appropriate material to Psilocybin mushrooms while still keeping short sections on history, legal status, etc. I hope to get to this in the next day or so. Peter G Werner 00:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

This page has been vandalized at least five times in the last 48 hours. I think it might be time to have this page semi-protected. I've put in a request to have this page semi-protected (meaning no edits by anonymous users or those with accounts less than four days old). Let me know if there are any objections to this. Peter G Werner 03:17, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


Mushrooms as cause of psychosis

In the sensory section, Dr. van der Heijden is quoted. But if you quote someone, then please dig up the persons words, instead of quoting a newspaper. The publication discussed by the newspaper was put out of context. The study group was a full 2 people. One recovered immediately after receiving a injection with medication. The other recovered within 24 hours without treatment. If this study says anything at all about harmfulness, then it gives an indication that people recover quickly from a psychotic reaction. In short: the quote is unfounded and does not belong in this article. --Malkuth1 03:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

There are no direct quotes from Dr. Van Der Heijden in the passage you are referring to.
I can't find any other sources onlinie. I do know it was orginally posted in the World Journal of Biological Psychiatry 2004; ch. 5 pg. 46-50; however, I do not have access to that Journal and it is not online. A newspaper article is the best source online source I am aware of. The Independent is a reliable source and I do not see a problem using it because there is a lack of other information avivable. How did you find out more information on the study? If it really did only involve two people and was taken out of context, then it should be removed, but I would like to see some proof it was only two persons and was taken out of context. Please provide a source for your claims and then the passage should be removed. Thanks. —Christopher Mann McKay 17:20, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Clause?

Why is the clause "One should be extremely cautious of any mushrooms which have unusual growths or mold, as well as any mushrooms which may have been harvested from the same grow as mushrooms with these growths." in this?

Shouldn't you not take these mushrooms in the first place? The Ronin 23:33, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

  • You cannot assume all readers of the article are subject to the same juristriction as you are. 203.96.116.186 01:31, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Weasel Words

Under Legal status: "The classification of psilocybin mushrooms as a schedule 1 drug has come under criticism because shrooms are considered soft drugs with a low potential for abuse."

I don't see this statement as appropriate. It's weasely, doesn't cite it sources, and has the slang use of shrooms. I don't have edit permission, so if a regular editor agrees with me could they change. (Also delete this talk section). Cheers. 203.96.116.186 01:31, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you that they are weasel words, but I also agree with the original editor that they are soft drugs with low abuse potential. Some rewording is in order. Alan Rockefeller (Talk - contribs) 01:45, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Dosage information needs to be clarified

71.138.240.182 02:14, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Under dosage, there is a part that states "When eaten dry, 1 to 1.5 grams of mushrooms provide a small "trip" that can last up to 3 hours. The effects then are relatively mild, depending on the tolerance of the subject. With 3 to 3.5 grams one experiences a strong and solid trip which can last more than 5 hours."

I found this information to be completely false. 1.5 grams of dried mushrooms is definitely capable of giving a trip longer than three hours, and can be very intense. Even if the section does say, "...depending on the tolerance of the subject.", I believe this section needs to be clarified. Taking three or more grams for a first experience, for example, is usually warned against.

Dosage potency depends on many factors including the potency of the particular strain in question, the drying method used, how old the mushrooms are, the storage conditions, the body weight of the subject, and also the subject's sensitivity/tolerance. For the average adult of aproximately 175lbs of average sensitivity, consuming psilocybe cubensis mushrooms of average potency, 1-1.5g will be a mild dosage, and 3g will be a moderate dosage. Also please note that using mushrooms in combination with cannabis will also produce an increased effect. This THC potentiation cannot be overstated, and has been the root cause of many a "bad trip" with mushrooms as well as other psychedelics. --Thoric 02:31, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

can you tripp twice in one day?

Factual error re: Maya/South America

In the history section, it says: "Mushroom stones and motifs have been found in Mayan temple ruins in South America, though there is considerable controversy as to whether these objects indicate the use of hallucinogenic mushrooms or whether they had some other significance with the mushroom shape being simply a coincidence." But I know this can't be right because the Maya never lived in South America.

The source is cited as Stamets, Paul [1996]. Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World, 11. ISBN 0898158397. Does someone have access to this book to fact check this and correct the statement? If not, is there some way to remove or revise this statement so that it is no longer factually incorrect? Yawar.fiesta 22:27, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how the statement about the Maya being in South America got into the article at one point – that's certainly not the way it was written. Chalk that up to any damn fool with basic misinformation about geography being able to edit Wikipedia, I guess. I can confirm, however, that the idea that "mushroom stones" actually represent hallucinogenic mushrooms is a controversial one, though I'll have to dig up the cites on that. Wasson and Stametes, of course, are notable proponents of that view, but there are archaeologists who disagree. For what its worth, I count myself as a skeptic as well – just what psilocybian species do the mushroom stones actually look like? Probably a stereotypical representation of Psilocybe cubensis. However, that species wasn't present in the New World until the introduction of cattle. Mushroom stones, however, bear no resemblance to Psilocybe mexicana and other psilocybian species native to Mesoamerica. Peter G Werner (talk) 04:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Omitted section - types of psilocybin mushrooms

A section is needed -- perhaps as simple as a "wikitable sortable" table - listing types, sample pics, and selected information, on the major different subspecies. FT2 (Talk | email) 00:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)