User talk:Procrustes the clown

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[edit] Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button Image:Signature_icon.png located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 04:30, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button Image:Signature_icon.png located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 06:17, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome & Advice

First, a welcome:

Welcome!

Hello, Procrustes the clown, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome!

And now an advice. Please read WP:NPOV. We maintain here on the Wikipedia a cool level of neutrality; always use reliable sources to back up your edits whenever you can. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 17:19, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sourcing requirements

Please read Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. We have strict requirements on sourcing and the neutrality of articles. Your recent edits to Milan Martić‎ have been reverted, as they did not meet those requirements. -- ChrisO (talk) 01:14, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your edits to Milan Martić‎

please read the above comment again. If you continue to do this you may be blocked from editing. Bowsy (review me!) 09:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button Image:Signature_icon.png located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 18:48, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Puppets

Because in my personal thinking you are puppet of other user (your editorial style) I must warn you that it is not allowed to use multiple accounts for editing 1 article. Users which break this rule are first blocked then banned for editing wikipedia. Wikipedia rulers clearly state that you must recieve this warning--Rjecina (talk) 15:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Đubre

Đubre.--Vitriden (talk) 00:11, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Thank you for contributing

Hello, thanks for your time and effort to contribute to the Republika Srpska Krajina article. I appreciate anyone who better develops the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mike Babic (talk • contribs) 14:46, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] POV and questioning

Procrustes, Wikipedia is not a place to question about international arbitration bodies.
The arbitration bodies have that purpose, when two or more sides cannot reach an agreement. Otherwise, disagreements could protract eternally.
In that case, you cannot say things like this [1], like you said on 3:59, 17 February 2008.
In that message, you've sent an inflammatory sentence "so-called independent Kosovo". Independence of Kosovo is thing that hurt Serbs, but, feelings are one thing, and reality is other thing.
Majoriy of Serbs mostly dislike that independence, but majority of Serbs also disliked the independence of other former Yugoslav federal units (in fact, militarily intervened to prevent that... and more).
Are you going to spit on every article about the ex-YU republics, that choose the way of independence?
Are we going to rewrite all history books, just because you and your alikes don't like the facts that other ex-YU republics and nations did't want to be with Serbia in the same country?
Are you going to continue the rhetorics of those Serbs who spread the poisonous propaganda about the ex-YU countries and nations that didn't want to be with greaterserbianists in the same country? Kubura (talk) 23:31, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[2], your edit from 04:29, 17 February 2008.
"illegal act by the leadership of Croatia". Read better the legal acts, Procrustes.
"The regions in question were majority Serb". Go on with such rhetorics to Romanians.
"...and were not parts of independent Croatia just because of an illegal act". Croatia was a federative unit of Yugoslavia, and these parts were part of Croatia. Since 7th century. Some of those rebelled areas were the core of medieval Croatian kingdom, and core area of Croatian kingdom that was in personal union with Kingdom of Hungary. Major changes came after the Ottoman conquests. Since then, the core of Croatia shifted northwestwards.
[3] 05:04, 17 February 2008 . Again the same story.
Certain minority cannot blackmail whole country. You may live in China, and Serbs might be the majority in your apartment, but that doesn't mean that you can impose your will to whole country.
Your edit from 04:59, 7 March 2008 [4]. "That includes changing the constitution to downgrade them to a "national minority". "means that all important decisions must be done with Serbian consultation. " Your wishie-wish. That was the problem in Yugoslavia, because certain "heavenly nation" wanted to rule over whole Yugoslavia, as if whole Yugoslavia was theirs own property.
Your edit from 05:09, 7 March 2008 [5] . "The Yugoslav constitution under which the administrative borders of the republics were created". Oh, Milošević's rhetorics about "administrative borders".
"Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia had status as constituent people there". Not in Croatia. Your edit from 18:46, 7 March 2008 [6] "...Badinter turns up and demands the breakup of Yugoslavia. ". No, dear child. Slovenia and Croatia have declared independence. Badinteur's Committee only described the circumstances in its conclusions.
As I see here [7], work of 209.226.192.120 is your work. "words that create a Croatian POV; words like "rebel Serbs",". Dear child, if you don't know the meaning of the word rebellion, don't mess with heated topics.
", RSK and Croatia were recognised as part of the sovereign state of Yugoslavia". Oh, really child? So-called RSK was a rebel-controlled territory, and you cannot speak about that territory and about government controlled territory as if those two territories were two countries. Especially, you're not allowed to edit the wikipedia's articles in that spirit. You've said at least two POV's there: you don't recognize the part of Croatia (Croatia is internationally recognized country, and you're not the one who'll determin the borders), and second one, so-called RSK was never a part of Yugoslavia. If you don't know which republics (6) and provinces (2) were Yugoslavia's federative units, don't mess with this heated topics such as this one Croatia-related topic.
"it seems that people don't want any mention of the NDH context, in that symbols were used associated with NDH". Symbols associated with NDH? Dear Procrustes, I see no NDH symbols in official symbols of Republic of Croatia. Have you seen any? If you think that Croatian (checquered) coat-of-arms is a symbol of NDH, you're wrong; that coat-of-arms Croatia also had as Yugoslavia's federative unit (as People's Republic of Croatia, NR Hrvatska, and as Socialist Republic of Croatia, as SR Hrvatska). If you think that just because of that, that one regime - ustashi one (never regularly elected, but foreign-imposed) used traditional Croat symbols, you have an excuse to ban the use of those symbols, you're very wrong.
Your edit from 02:53, 17 March 2008 [8] "Croatia remains within Federal Yugoslavia, Serbs require only cultural autonomy. Two, if Yugoslavia is to turn into a confederation, Serbs then insist on territorial autonomy. Three, if Croatia is seceding from Yugoslavia, Serbs are seceding from Croatia and remain with Yugoslavia". So, you think, that the member of the parliament from another country can decide about the territory of another country.
Your edit from [9]. ", the UN recognised the breakaway republics". Dear Procrustes, there was the case of dissoluted partnership. These two republics were regularly filling the budget of Yugoslav federation for the Fund of underdeveloped (because these 2 were "developed", and other 6 "weren't"). If your logic was applied, CRO and SLO could eternally be retained in that forced partnership, because it's obvious that others would be interested to regularly receive the money from these two (and for others 'd always be of their interest to present themselves as "underdeveloped"). Procrustes, that's racket, not a regular business deal. If parties cannot function normally (although they are supposed to be equal partners!) and dissolve partnership normally, that's not the partnership of equal parties, that's slave contract.
"Croats were the rebels and the Krajina Serbs were loyal to the legitimate sovereign authority". Yugoslavia was a federative country, a federation of six states. There was no phantomous "top authority", that could impose the rule to a certain federative unit.
". It was certainly illegal to change Yugoslavia's borders without its consent as the Helsinki act guaranteed that fact". You're wrong. Yugoslavia has dissoluted. No border changes appeared. Noone annexed part of Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia lost none of its territory. Simply, it ceased to exist.
"...accept its secession...". Procrustes, again you with your "secession" POV. That attitude was the attitude of greaterserbianists, that found whole Yugoslavia as Serbia's property. Yugoslavia was the federation of equal partners, and noone was allowed to impose its will to any other federation member. Kubura (talk) 23:31, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Constitutive nation

Osnovna načela Ustava SRH, odlomak I:
"...utvrđeno je da JE hrvatski narod zajedno sa srpskim narodom i narodnostima u Hrvatskoj.......izvojevAO ... u zaj. borbi sa drugim narodima i narodnostima Jugoslavije u NOR-u i socij. revoluciji ...nacionalnu slobodu, te uspostavIO svoju državu - SR Hrvatsku."
As you see, only singular form is used.
Ustav SRH, čl. 1.:
"SR Hrvatska je:
 - nacionalna država hrvatskog naroda
- država srpskog naroda i
- država narodnosti koje u njoj žive."
Serbs weren't in any higher position than other nationalities in SR Croatia, although they were mentioned specifically, but nothing more. Croatia is national state solely to Croats. Jedino je Hrvatima SR Hrvatska nacionalna država, ostalima je samo "država".
Rad odakle sam ovo izvadia je: Dunja Bonacci Skenderović i Mario Jareb: Hrvatski nacionalni simboli između stereotipa i istine, Časopis za suvremenu povijest, god. 36, br. 2, str. 731.-760., 2004..
In that work, it's also spoken about Croatian national symbols and their stigmatization/etiquetting. Kubura (talk) 23:36, 23 March 2008 (UTC)