Talk:Province of Georgia

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[edit] Map of territorial claims

The following off-site maps show the various claims of the original Thirteen Colonies: [1], [2], [3], and [4]. If this information could be included in a map of this province's claims. It would be great. (This request was originally made by jengod, and I moved it here.) – Quadell (talk) (bounties) 16:06, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

How would this be different to the map that's already on the page? -- Astrokey44|talk 04:24, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
The map in the article now doesn't show how far west it extends. I thought that at one time it was claimed all the way to the Pacific Ocean. Is that correct? Bubba73 (talk), 04:29, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Wasn't that Spanish or French territory though? -- Astrokey44|talk 08:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't know. Someone more familiar with history would know. Bubba73 (talk), 16:07, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think this article really needs a more proffesional looking map. It's a bit, er...MS Paint-ish.

The map now used Wpdms georgia colony 1732.png looks pretty good to me, and shows the limits of the original grant in about the same way as maps published by Oglethorpe. Hughespj 16:13, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism?

Umm, are those last two related articles legit? "great mage" and "potchface" sound a bit strange. I tried to look them up, but could not find a page on either term. Has this just been overlooked, or am I just mistaken?

[edit] Territorial expansion

 Please help improve this article or section by expanding it.
Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion. (June 2007)

It's unclear how and why Georgia expanded southward and westward past its original charter lands, and how its southern border was set. I found some material on boundaries which I added to History of Georgia (U.S. state), but it's unclear why the particular boundaries which were set were chosen. Some historical context would be very educational. -- Beland 11:55, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Worth adding here as well, I'd have thought.--GwydionM 13:17, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
(after ec) Well, the main addition came with the Royal Proclamation of 1763 which states "We have also, with the advice of our ivy Council aforesaid, annexed to our Province of Georgia all the Lands Iying between the Rivers Alatamaha and St. Mary's." The western boundaries were not specified, although the original charter had a sea-to-sea provision. The same proclamation also created the provinces of East Florida and West Florida.
The Government of East Florida, bounded to the Westward by the Gulph of Mexico and the Apalachicola River; to the Northward by a Line drawn from that part of the said River where the Chatahouchee and Flint Rivers meet, to the source of St. Mary's River, and by the course of the said River to the Atlantic Ocean; and to the Eastward and Southward by the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulph of Florida, including all Islands within Six Leagues of the Sea Coast.
The Government of West Florida, bounded to the Southward by the Gulph of Mexico, including all Islands within Six Leagues of the Coast; from the River Apalachicola to Lake Pontchartrain; to the Westward by the said Lake, the Lake Maurepas, and the River Mississippi; to the Northward by a Line drawn due East from that part of the River Mississippi which lies in 31 Degrees North Latitude, to the River Apalachicola or Chatahouchee; and to the Eastward by the said River.
According to the West Florida article (a specific source is not given), in 1764 "the British moved the northern boundary to a line extending from the mouth of the Yazoo River east to the Chattahoochee River (32° 28′ north latitude)." The Spanish Florida article has similar information, but gives the year as 1767 (and also does not provide a specific source).
So apparently the Province of Georgia would have included land north of 31° to the Mississippi River (based on the sea to sea provision in the charter). Now, here is where it starts to really get murky. First, most of the western area was under the de facto control of Native American tribes so European powers and later the US were making claims for the nominal ownership of land they did not yet directly control (and for which there were not even any very good maps at the time). In the Treaty of Paris (1783) with the US, the boundaries were described in part as
a line to be drawn along the middle of the said river Mississippi until it shall intersect the northernmost part of the thirty-first degree of north latitude, South, by a line to be drawn due east from the determination of the line last mentioned in the latitude of thirty-one degrees of the equator, to the middle of the river Apalachicola or Catahouche; thence along the middle thereof to its junction with the Flint River, thence straight to the head of Saint Mary's River; and thence down along the middle of Saint Mary's River to the Atlantic Ocean;
In separate treaties signed with Spain at about the same time, the British ceded both Florida provinces to Spain, but did not specify the northern boundaries. Spain at first claimed the expanded 1764 (or 1767) boundary, while the United States demanded that the boundary be at the 31st parallel. In the Treaty of San Lorenzo of 1795, Spain recognized the 31st parallel as the boundary.
In the secret Third Treaty of San Ildefonso of 1800, Spain returned France's Louisiana colony, however the boundaries were not specified. After France sold the Louisiana Purchase to the United States in 1803, the US claimed the territory from the Perdido River to the Mississippi River, which had been a part of the old province of Louisiana when the French had ceded it in 1763. The Spanish insisted that they administered that portion as the province of West Florida and that it was not part of the territory returned to France in 1800.
The present map of the Province of Georgia Image:Gacolony.png may be somewhat inaccurate, as the Province (or colony) ceased to exist in 1776 (or at least by 1783). It seems that the Province never had any claim to the southern portions of the western territories. But the state of Georgia apparently did claim the land, and made quite a spectacle of selling the same land multiple times in the Yazoo land scandal.
BTW, the portion "ceded" by South Carolina in 1787, was really more just an acknowledgment of cartographic realities regarding the headwaters of the Savannah River. This is a very confusing topic to try to puzzle out. I suspect that there have been scholarship in this area that may help, but I'm not familiar with any. older ≠ wiser 14:26, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Just want to add that I'll happily modify the map if you find something that needs changing. I did combine provincal and early statehood claims, because they are dificult to seperate - that might be clarified just with a change in the title or caption. When I was doing my research it was unclear when Georgia started claiming the SW portion (that was disputed with Spain), but as you mention it was clear that they were doing so by the time of the Yazoo land scandal so I included it in their claim based on that. Kmusser 14:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)